manchu Posted October 12, 2020 Posted October 12, 2020 Thanks to a generous great grandmother I'm shopping for a piano/keyboard of some sort to give to my 3 boys (7,5,3 yo). The eldest is keen on learning, but too early to tell on the others. A little research has led me to Roland FP30 or DS88 options, linked to below. The first being a digital piano and the other an 88 key synth. I'm leaning towards the synth because it'd give a lot more functionality and cool things to keep the kids interested., and hopefully not sacrifice too much on key feel and piano sound. The downsides I see of the synth is that all the bells an whistles might distract from the main goal of learning piano, and it costs a bit more. I'd love to hear opinions on these options or other suggestions. cheers https://www.roland.com/au/products/fp-30/ https://www.roland.com/au/products/juno-ds/juno-ds88/
Guest Peter the Greek Posted October 12, 2020 Posted October 12, 2020 I went though this at Christmas for our 8 year old. Grandma paid too. Ended up going cheaper and cheerfuller - Casio CTS300. Cheap, has touch sensitive keys and very portable. Well regarded too. Not too much bling. Good sound too, the standard piano tones are quite nice to listen to. If they get serious they'll quickly want an upright I'd suggest or a way more serious digital. Our girl is using Hoffman Academy - mostly free on Youtube and really well presented.
manchu Posted October 13, 2020 Author Posted October 13, 2020 21 hours ago, Peter the Greek said: Ended up going cheaper and cheerfuller - Casio CTS300 That's about what I'd be buying if not for grandmas insistence that I spend more than makes sense . She had a good opportunity to buy an upright piano last year, which my sisters kids now have, so is just balancing out the generosity I guess. she's good like that I've discussed options and she's all for the extra features of the synth. I've also spoken to other parents, a primary school music teacher mate, a child prodigy jazz pianist and numerous store reps and have decided to get the Juno. Either would be a great option but I think the synth will prove more useful in the long term, and the sounds it's capable of are very very good. I tracked one down in stock and order has been placed, including a Roland 50W keyboard amp. Now I'm trying to work out how to re-arrange the lounge room so it can fit.. 22 hours ago, Peter the Greek said: Our girl is using Hoffman Academy - mostly free on Youtube and really well presented. cheers. I've been wondering what the good online learning options are. I can see our boys being much more interested in learning from an iPad than a book for some reason.
bob_m_54 Posted October 13, 2020 Posted October 13, 2020 It depends on what you want to achieve. If it's just to give them an opportunity to learn an instrument, then a keyboard will suffice. But if you want them to learn to play a piano, and maybe do the exams, then either a Clavinova or a digital piano. They are similar, and both have weighted keys, but the apparently the Clavinova is more similar to the feel of an acoustic piano. I'm not familiar with digital pianos, but my daughter played a Clavinova from about 7 years old, and was easily able to adapt between it and an acoustic piano for lessons and performances. She is almost 40 now, and a few years ago she bought herself a Baby Grand Piano. Some info here: https://www.reidys.com/blog/yamaha-clp-vs-ydp-what-are-the-differences-between-the-clavinova-and-arius-ranges/
Guest Peter the Greek Posted October 13, 2020 Posted October 13, 2020 47 minutes ago, manchu said: much more interested in learning from an iPad than a book for some reason. That's what we do. Put the ipad on the music stand, works well.
Guest Peter the Greek Posted October 13, 2020 Posted October 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: but the apparently the Clavinova is more similar to the feel of an acoustic piano. That's the conclusion I arrived at. It was either a cheap keyboard, Clavinova or a proper piano. In between options seemed a compromise for one reason or another.......but then I dont play, so was relying on advice from a teacher friend.
aussievintage Posted October 13, 2020 Posted October 13, 2020 On 12/10/2020 at 12:54 PM, manchu said: A little research has led me to Roland FP30 Sound wise, I have been a huge Roland fan for many years. They just have the best piano sound bar none (IMHO of course). Our kids started on Roland. 14 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: but the apparently the Clavinova is more similar to the feel of an acoustic piano. I have never been sure that isn't just a sales thing. I mean, other brands do have properly weighted keys. I can't imagine other brands haven't got equal quality keyboards. Even within the Clavinova range, there are choices as to how good the action really is. Somewhere in the middle of that range I think you'll find other brands just as real.
bob_m_54 Posted October 13, 2020 Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) @Peter the Greek Yes, my daughter had a fairly cheap keyboard to start with. And it's a good way to see if the interest isn't just a passing fad. But as the teacher may have told you as well, they can pick up bad habits if they start to learn on a keyboard instead of a piano, if the piano is the final aim. I don't play either, and went on the advice of a music teacher as well (poor old bugger is dead now). Edited October 13, 2020 by bob_m_54
bob_m_54 Posted October 13, 2020 Posted October 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, aussievintage said: Sound wise, I have been a huge Roland fan for many years. They just have the best piano sound bar none (IMHO of course). Our kids started on Roland. I have never been sure that isn't just a sales thing. I mean, other brands do have properly weighted keys. I can't imagine other brands haven't got equal quality keyboards. Even within the Clavinova range, there are choices as to how good the action really is. Somewhere in the middle of that range I think you'll find other brands just as real. Yes sorry, I meant as opposed to a synthesizer type keyboard.
manchu Posted October 13, 2020 Author Posted October 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: It depends on what you want to achieve. I guess that's to buy something that'll get used and is good enough quality and functionality wise for the kids to grow into and keep around for many years to come. It's hard to know if any of the kids will take to playing but I consider the full size synth will be good to have around whether they stick with piano or move on to different instruments.
manchu Posted October 13, 2020 Author Posted October 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: Yes sorry, I meant as opposed to a synthesizer type keyboard. The Juno 88 Key synth has weighted action keys, but the 76 and 61 key versions miss out. The feel and sound for piano won't be up the standard of the FP30, but that's a trade off I'm happy to make 1
aussievintage Posted October 13, 2020 Posted October 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, manchu said: The feel and sound for piano won't be up the standard of the FP30 Depends what you play it through, because I think the basic sample sets are pretty much the same throughout the Roland range. Even the cheap midi synth modules they sold under names like Boss, had the same fantastic piano sound. Of course this was years ago, but may still be the same.
Muscat Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 This is timely. My kids are just starting piano and I am shopping for a digital piano too. Have been talking to various people and the consensus seems to be to get something with 88 weighted keys. A number of parents I've talked to recommended getting an acoustic piano but that is too much of a stretch for my finances and living space. I also like the idea of my kids being able to practice quietly through headphones on a digital piano as well as use learning apps. Currently tossing up between Yamaha p125 which might be due to be replaced next year or slightly pricier Kawai es920 which has just been released. Big question is whether the kids are likely to continue with piano or will this end up an expensive bit of clutter.
aussievintage Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Muscat said: Big question is whether the kids are likely to continue with piano or will this end up an expensive bit of clutter. My solution, learn to play it yourself 1
surprisetech Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 On 12/10/2020 at 1:54 PM, manchu said: Thanks to a generous great grandmother I'm shopping for a piano/keyboard of some sort to give to my 3 boys (7,5,3 yo). The eldest is keen on learning, but too early to tell on the others. A little research has led me to Roland FP30 or DS88 options, linked to below. The first being a digital piano and the other an 88 key synth. I'm leaning towards the synth because it'd give a lot more functionality and cool things to keep the kids interested., and hopefully not sacrifice too much on key feel and piano sound. The downsides I see of the synth is that all the bells an whistles might distract from the main goal of learning piano, and it costs a bit more. I'd love to hear opinions on these options or other suggestions. cheers https://www.roland.com/au/products/fp-30/ https://www.roland.com/au/products/juno-ds/juno-ds88/ My 2c worth. Give weighted or semi-weighted keys a high priority.
manchu Posted October 15, 2020 Author Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Muscat said: Big question is whether the kids are likely to continue with piano or will this end up an expensive bit of clutter Surely one of my 3 kids will take to it ????. If not then I'm happy to have it just for my own tinkering . I think the extra features of the synth can only help to keep the kids interested . My 7yo was 110% sold on the idea when I told him we could have the keys make fart noises. The robustness and portability are also good things for how I see it being used eventually. The only cons for me are that it's not as neat, doesn't have built in speakers and it was more expensive than the FP30. My total with amp, stand, seat came to $2500 2 hours ago, surprisetech said: My 2c worth. Give weighted or semi-weighted keys a high priority 1 hour ago, Muscat said: the consensus seems to be to get something with 88 weighted keys Agreed. That was a must have for me so I was happy to realise the Juno 88 key version has weighted keys. Hopefully well weighted because I couldn't test it out.
blybo Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 (edited) We asked around some piano playing friends when our kids showed some interest a couple of years ago. We didn't go over the top but the Casio LK-120 is what came recommended by several people. My kids lost interest and gave up their school based lessons, but still tinker with it at times, I hope they decide to try again now back at school. Seems this is now discontinued but perhaps similar backlit keys are available in other brands/models. 1 of the people who recommended it was a International standard concert pianist aquaintence who also teaches all ability levels from home. I wouldn't buy a white elephant to start with. Let them show some real dedication to learning first. Edited October 15, 2020 by blybo
sloper Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 l learnt to play a consol organ in my youth, mainly for my own enjoyment Have had 2 Casio CTK Keyboards very good value and sound really nice, weighted keys ect. Missed the full peddle board and Leslie speakers. Couple of years ago l looked at a Yamaha that would fit the bill but never pulled the trigger. So badly out of practice l dont want to embarass my self, consol organ is still sitting at mums. Needs a service and is over 40 years old, its very large. regards Bruce
Guest rmpfyf Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 A wonderful gift from grandmother. Don't understimte second hand purchass here either - there's some really good stuff out there. Ours and spent very early years on a Kawai MP6 I've had for 10 years - and still a great stage piano. Experience suggests following: Get a decent keyboard/stage piano - worry about range (88 keys good) and a decent weighted action - don't worry too much about keeping up with the Jonses on 'best' weighted actions, they're all various degrees of 'not a piano' sub $4k Your choice whether it has speakers or you need some monitors The lesser buttons the better! If you've not yet bought I'd save your money and look s/h. There are some fun things you can buy with the cash you save that'll allow your kids to explore an interest in music creatively (mics, interfaces, loop boards etc) that have (much) better returns than the latest keys. (In fact I know of at least one suitable board that might be accessible to a good home). Kids will all go through a period where every button on the device is a distraction but you' really can't blame them, that's just part of being kids. There was a good two months here where all I heard was the percussion bank played out over the keyboard over giggling but after a while that gave way to rhythm too. Don't worry about starting to expose your kids to instruments young. There's a far greater chance of your three year old finding enjoyment if they can make noise at their own pace and listen to music as they like... as opposed to starting formal music lessons cold and running scales and classics they might not have much curiosity for. We just purchased a piano that's (very) secondhand, f'rinstance. Could have spent (literally) an order of magnitude more on a piano from the same make in a later model, and with a little tweaking it's a perfect instrument for any muso.... keyboards don't even need tweaking!
manchu Posted October 15, 2020 Author Posted October 15, 2020 22 minutes ago, rmpfyf said: A wonderful gift from grandmother It really is a lovely gesture and one I think will have a positive and lasting influence on the boys. Now I just hope she hangs around long enough to hear one of them belt out a recognisable tune. Maybe 'Happy Birthday' for her 100th in 2 years. 25 minutes ago, rmpfyf said: Don't understimte second hand purchass here either - there's some really good stuff out there. I rarely buy anything like this new but in this case it's all I didn't really consider 2nd hand Partly due to the current restrictions in Melbourne and partly because grandma is more comfortable buying new. 54 minutes ago, rmpfyf said: Your choice whether it has speakers or you need some monitors No built in speakers unfortunately. I have some monitors already but have opted for a decent keyboard amp as this should stand up to abuse , is more easily moved around and will be more capable amongst other instruments if need be in the future. 30 minutes ago, rmpfyf said: The lesser buttons the better! Woops. I've gone for all the buttons!!. 30 minutes ago, rmpfyf said: Kids will all go through a period where every button on the device is a distraction That was one of my concerns in opting for the DS88 Synth but trusted my sisters opinion, which is that anything that keeps their interest is a good thing. time will tell.
Guest rmpfyf Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 @manchu sounds like it's all in a good place. Now go get 'em their Dozen a Day books, at least the first three. Good hand exercises to get started! I have external speakers also... 'twas a good excuse to get some studio monitors As long as they're playing you're good. Play with them if you can, however evolving the journey.
manchu Posted October 17, 2020 Author Posted October 17, 2020 The keyboard arrived on Friday, but not the amp, stand or seat. I couldn’t wait so cleared some space Friday night and surprised the kids Saturday morning. It was like Christmas but I didn’t bother wrapping it up (I did resist opening the box though). I really couldn’t be happier with the instrument itself and how well it’s been received by the whole family. it’s bloody good fun. 1
Guest rmpfyf Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) The kid's in a good room for it! An ex of mine runs a Juno DS and she gigs professionally. They're a nice board. Not suggesting your kids will turn pro tomorrow just that it should last a good while. Prob get a music stand or something behind there just to keep his neck a little more level. Hoping you had a great sales experience. We had an absolute ripper with the mob we bought our piano from - super service and very reasonable price, particularly given it's an instrument for kids to learn on. Now get your kids on some Elise Trouw, Peter Bence and Kebu videos. There's some super inspiration out there on how to make and play with music in ways that just weren't as accessible a generation ago. So much fun. Edit - is that an Onyx Rickenbacker copy sneaking around in the background? Edited October 18, 2020 by rmpfyf
manchu Posted October 18, 2020 Author Posted October 18, 2020 2 hours ago, rmpfyf said: is that an Onyx Rickenbacker copy sneaking around in the background? Yes it i, but It’s missing the bridge. Just reminded me to order the replacement. Cheers. 2 hours ago, rmpfyf said: it should last a good while. I hope so. It’s overkill for sure but Its also nice to have something pro level so it can continue to be useful, and an ongoing memory of their great grandma, if the kids get serious about it. 2 hours ago, rmpfyf said: Prob get a music stand or something behind there just to keep his neck a little more level. yeah the ergonomics leave a lot to be desired at the moment. keyboard stand, bench and music stand still in transit.
manchu Posted October 21, 2020 Author Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) The Roland KC-80 arrived today. It’s a real cracker of an amp. Amazing sound, very loud and great flexibility with the 3 channels/mixer. My old studio monitors sound nice but the amp is another level. The whole family has been giving the keyboard a thrashing and it’s great. The piano feel and sound is fantastic. The extra sounds and features of the synth are fun and/or useful so far. So many possibilities. I’m very happy with the Juno and looking forward to the sounds and good times it’ll bring for years to come. We’re testing out the SimplyPiano ipad app and like it a lot so far. It’s not perfect but very simple, rewarding and works great for out needs. Edited October 21, 2020 by manchu
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