Ancient Mariner Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 I have just upgraded my elderly AV equipment after 15 years with a new Yamaha 1900 receiver to go with a Pana 50PZ800a in the lounge. It was intended to be used with an old set of JBL L4s, Control SC305 & Control Plus rears. The old Onkyo it replaced (very old) was to be relegated to 'my' retreat/office along with a 33-inch Pana CRT (I mostly only use a TV to watch sport/news). But I do also listen to music a fair bit. But the Onkyo died a few weeks ago, and the TV was getting flaky too so I also bought a Pana 50PX80a and an Onkyo 606 for myself. I thought I could get by with the TV speakers (and headphones for music) for a while but the PX80 TV speakers are so poor I want to do something about a second set of speakers sooner than I had hoped. Unfortunately, there's not much budget left (well, none really but...). I need a minimum of mains and a centre. I had hoped to just buy a real cheap pair of fronts and a centre for the time being, and use a spare pair of JBL Control 1s as rears. But having listened to the DSE floorstanders and to things like the cheap Wharfedales currently on offer at JB Hi-Fi as well as a few other mains in that $500-$750 bracket (Jensen, Mordaunt Short) I think I would be unhappy with them even temporarily. Today I listened to a range of speakers. Everything I really liked was much too expensive but I did like 2 moderately priced speakers. First was a pair of JBL Northbridge ES which I could get from HN for $1400 (including the centre). Or around $2k for the whole package including sub. I also liked the sound of the Dali Concept 8s with a concept centre. Can get them for $1550 from JB. (The 10s were much better but I just can't justify the price right now). It's been years since I bought speakers and my ears are not what they once were but I was a bit surprised at how bad some of the cheaper stuff sounded. I know that JBL don't have the same reputation they once did, and they're not favourites around here, but I have to say that those old JBL L4s still sound better to my ears than the new JBLs I listened to today, and better than the Concept 8s too. I'm really curious to see what others think of these speakers, and if anyone has any suggestions for others I might listen to in that price bracket. I've got WAF for the JBLs or the Dali Concepts but I'm not sure if I wouldn't be better to wait a while and get something better still. If I did that I would have to just (carefully) use the JBL Control 1s as 2-channel mains for a while. Complicating the issue, the missus has said she'd be just as happy with a set of Yamahas or something on 'her' TV and I should take the old JBLs. But that would mean me also taking the Yamaha 1900, which would be overkill for any cheap set of 6 speakers in a box. Can anyone help me out here? I've read a lot on here and it's been really helpful but I'm way out of touch with this stuff. Sorry for raving on.
Jliang70 Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 Ancient Mariner said: I have just upgraded my elderly AV equipment after 15 years with a new Yamaha 1900 receiver to go with a Pana 50PZ800a in the lounge. It was intended to be used with an old set of JBL L4s, Control SC305 & Control Plus rears. The old Onkyo it replaced (very old) was to be relegated to 'my' retreat/office along with a 33-inch Pana CRT (I mostly only use a TV to watch sport/news). But I do also listen to music a fair bit. But the Onkyo died a few weeks ago, and the TV was getting flaky too so I also bought a Pana 50PX80a and an Onkyo 606 for myself.I thought I could get by with the TV speakers (and headphones for music) for a while but the PX80 TV speakers are so poor I want to do something about a second set of speakers sooner than I had hoped. Unfortunately, there's not much budget left (well, none really but...). I need a minimum of mains and a centre. I had hoped to just buy a real cheap pair of fronts and a centre for the time being, and use a spare pair of JBL Control 1s as rears. But having listened to the DSE floorstanders and to things like the cheap Wharfedales currently on offer at JB Hi-Fi as well as a few other mains in that $500-$750 bracket (Jensen, Mordaunt Short) I think I would be unhappy with them even temporarily. Today I listened to a range of speakers. Everything I really liked was much too expensive but I did like 2 moderately priced speakers. First was a pair of JBL Northbridge ES which I could get from HN for $1400 (including the centre). Or around $2k for the whole package including sub. I also liked the sound of the Dali Concept 8s with a concept centre. Can get them for $1550 from JB. (The 10s were much better but I just can't justify the price right now). It's been years since I bought speakers and my ears are not what they once were but I was a bit surprised at how bad some of the cheaper stuff sounded. I know that JBL don't have the same reputation they once did, and they're not favourites around here, but I have to say that those old JBL L4s still sound better to my ears than the new JBLs I listened to today, and better than the Concept 8s too. I'm really curious to see what others think of these speakers, and if anyone has any suggestions for others I might listen to in that price bracket. I've got WAF for the JBLs or the Dali Concepts but I'm not sure if I wouldn't be better to wait a while and get something better still. If I did that I would have to just (carefully) use the JBL Control 1s as 2-channel mains for a while. Complicating the issue, the missus has said she'd be just as happy with a set of Yamahas or something on 'her' TV and I should take the old JBLs. But that would mean me also taking the Yamaha 1900, which would be overkill for any cheap set of 6 speakers in a box. Can anyone help me out here? I've read a lot on here and it's been really helpful but I'm way out of touch with this stuff. Sorry for raving on. I have been looking at the thread about this adelaide speaker company (http://www.adelaidespeakers.com/), I think if you are short on the budget you can probably get some good speakers from them. I have a sneaky suspicion that these speaker may offer your better sound quality that you can get from JBL and Dali. Of the speak you can audition I think for $2k you should consider MA RS6 which has an rrp $1699 and you can probably knock it down a bit, you can also try Krix $1500 tower speaker or JM Lab 716. You should delay the purchase of a subwoofer because there are many great sub below $1000 mark.
Trofius Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 I think if you look on the AVS forums they have a dedicated post to JBL owners, you shoukld be able to get some more experienced peoples commenting on the difference between th control series and teh ES, and if an up grade is warrented... As you have mentioned the control series to you still sounds better, also i guess it is what you are used to, and it is in your home rather than a shop setting.. The ES series are not a bad looking speaker, and are not too different ( depending on models )from the LS series which are a considerable price jump, which ES the 60, 80, 0r 100.. guessing maybe teh 60 for that price, which in my opinion is lacking in bass, will really need a sub, but the mids and highs are not bad.
Ancient Mariner Posted October 23, 2008 Author Posted October 23, 2008 Thanks. It's the JBL ES80 + ES25 centre I've been looking at ($1400). The old speakers I have are the 'L' series, L4s. The Controls are just the rears. On specs the ES speakers should be much better than the old L4s but I just found them lacking in 'purity' but that could just be the environment they were in.
Trofius Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Can not find anything on the L4, might be an obscure Model. how old are they? The Es series are really an upgrade on the E series which I have, they have just incorporated a new high end section to them which looks as iif t was taxed form the later Studio L series ( no relation to your L4s) The ES is a relatively new series. The ES80 should produce nice bass, the high end is produced much better than my E80. I find teh E series, and studios L series need lots of clean power to get the most from them.,
Ancient Mariner Posted October 24, 2008 Author Posted October 24, 2008 No, never been able to find out much about them myself. Purchased about 15 years ago. Don't think they're anything special. Just had a look at them. They're actually L5s not L4s. The series was L1, L3, L5 and L7. Have a 1" High freq, 5" mid range and dual 6.5" low freq. Response is 35Hz-27kHz, crossover 550Hz/4kHz. Minimum power 35 watts, max 300 watts. Sensitivity listed at 90dB. None of which means much to me, I'm not an audiophile. I just know they produce a nice, clean well-rounded sound but with enough 'raw' edge to be accurate. I expected the new ones to be much better after 15 years of development to be honest but I found almost everything I listened to the other day a trifle harsh. If the ES80s need "lots of clean power" can I assume that a Yamaha 1900 would give them that? How about an Onkyo 606?
Trofius Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 yep did a search myself, and found the L4 to be different to the L5 as it uses different speakers, teh L1, L3,L5,L7,L9 were pretty decent speakers, apparently teh L4 was just in SE asia, Oz, NZ, etc never in teh states, a case of JBL labeling a speaker similar to a high end model so people think it is realated....well that is what i read on another forum..? Not sure what those amps will do for them, But as they are newer amps they should do ok, whei i listened to mine ages ago with a yammahe AVR they were quite bright, the pioneer was more neutral ( which i bought) and the onkyo was maybe a tad warmer.. i can say that when i upgraded to a NAD 955 power amp, (100-120 continuous watts all channels,) it was night and day, and now listen much louder than before and the speakers just love it, and it is easier to do so, but again the E80 does not have the same upper range set up as teh ES, so teh ES may not get as harsh when pushed. Keep listening to speakers everywere, JBL tend to be over priced here for what you get, but there is a decent mark up on them, I was looking at a set of Studio L series L890, the HN guy was willing to slash $700 off RR $2400 down to $1800 for the pair. Now I might sus out a deal on LS series speakers, but they are much more expensive ( best speaker award in Europe this year)
Ancient Mariner Posted October 24, 2008 Author Posted October 24, 2008 Thanks for your help. Yeah, keep listening is the only way I guess. I've set up the new Yamaha today and it's fine with the JBLs. I think I'm leaning more to the Dali Concept 8s now though but I'm in no mad rush. As for pricing, it's interesting that in both HN & JB yesterday I didn't have to haggle to get prices down (and I did have to just a couple of months ago when I was spending $20k in one store. I got great prices then but I had to work at it even spending a big chunk of change). Yesterday I just had to keep saying hmmm, and they kept sweetening the price without prompting. And both salespeople were telling me that business is really, really bad. Guess the credit crisis is biting. Given the state of retail and the state of the dollar I suspect it's probably a great time to buy imported gear that's been in stock a while.
Chill Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Ancient Mariner said: I have just upgraded my elderly AV equipment after 15 years with a new Yamaha 1900 receiver to go with a Pana 50PZ800a in the lounge. It was intended to be used with an old set of JBL L4s, Control SC305 & Control Plus rears. The old Onkyo it replaced (very old) was to be relegated to 'my' retreat/office along with a 33-inch Pana CRT (I mostly only use a TV to watch sport/news). But I do also listen to music a fair bit. But the Onkyo died a few weeks ago, and the TV was getting flaky too so I also bought a Pana 50PX80a and an Onkyo 606 for myself.I thought I could get by with the TV speakers (and headphones for music) for a while but the PX80 TV speakers are so poor I want to do something about a second set of speakers sooner than I had hoped. Unfortunately, there's not much budget left (well, none really but...). I need a minimum of mains and a centre. I had hoped to just buy a real cheap pair of fronts and a centre for the time being, and use a spare pair of JBL Control 1s as rears. But having listened to the DSE floorstanders and to things like the cheap Wharfedales currently on offer at JB Hi-Fi as well as a few other mains in that $500-$750 bracket (Jensen, Mordaunt Short) I think I would be unhappy with them even temporarily. Today I listened to a range of speakers. Everything I really liked was much too expensive but I did like 2 moderately priced speakers. First was a pair of JBL Northbridge ES which I could get from HN for $1400 (including the centre). Or around $2k for the whole package including sub. I also liked the sound of the Dali Concept 8s with a concept centre. Can get them for $1550 from JB. (The 10s were much better but I just can't justify the price right now). It's been years since I bought speakers and my ears are not what they once were but I was a bit surprised at how bad some of the cheaper stuff sounded. I know that JBL don't have the same reputation they once did, and they're not favourites around here, but I have to say that those old JBL L4s still sound better to my ears than the new JBLs I listened to today, and better than the Concept 8s too. I'm really curious to see what others think of these speakers, and if anyone has any suggestions for others I might listen to in that price bracket. I've got WAF for the JBLs or the Dali Concepts but I'm not sure if I wouldn't be better to wait a while and get something better still. If I did that I would have to just (carefully) use the JBL Control 1s as 2-channel mains for a while. Complicating the issue, the missus has said she'd be just as happy with a set of Yamahas or something on 'her' TV and I should take the old JBLs. But that would mean me also taking the Yamaha 1900, which would be overkill for any cheap set of 6 speakers in a box. Can anyone help me out here? I've read a lot on here and it's been really helpful but I'm way out of touch with this stuff. Sorry for raving on. JBL L5's are great speakers, very very good, if they are in good condition use them, the new JBL's and Dali's you are looking at are fine but not in the same class as those "old" JBL's
Ancient Mariner Posted October 24, 2008 Author Posted October 24, 2008 Chill said: JBL L5's are great speakers, very very good, if they are in good condition use them, the new JBL's and Dali's you are looking at are fine but not in the same class as those "old" JBL's Ah, thank you! That's what my ears have been telling me but I'm so out of touch that I haven't been trusting my own judgement! So, if I wanted to get a second set of speakers that at least matched, or came very close to, the performance of the L5s, what would you suggest I looked at?
Chill Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Ancient Mariner said: Ah, thank you! That's what my ears have been telling me but I'm so out of touch that I haven't been trusting my own judgement! So, if I wanted to get a second set of speakers that at least matched, or came very close to, the performance of the L5s, what would you suggest I looked at? That is the hard part, JBL at the time of making the L5's not only made some great speakers IMO their sound quality and strengths will be hard to "match" in todays market. Ideally you could track down some similar vintage JBL's second hand however even if you do this there is nothing that was made as a centre speaker at the time and "book shelf" speakers were quite big ! Try ebay. Good news is if you keep the L5's you just need to find a centre and perhaps sub for your bucks. perhaps that Dali 10 centre is now affordable or one of the better current JBL centers. To match your current speakers you will need something efficient, fast with real punch yet neutral in the midrange. Others may have some suggestions for a good match.
Trofius Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 (edited) Are the L4s ported or sealed... Did you want floor standers, or bookshelfs? Obviously a centre, maybe try the current L series speaker, they are a much noticable step up from the ES series, although a tad uglier. The LC2 is a great cantre although it is a sealed speaker designed to be wall mounted, to take advantage of bassloading, beutiful and tight for music, but lacking BIG bass, the better shelf speakers in the L series are the L830 as they are a 3 way ported design ( fairly meaty shelf speakers) , the L820 shelfs match the LC@2 centre as they are also a 3.5 way sealed and wall mountable, I have these as my rears they actually sound better , clearer, more open than my floorstanders, but again will need a sub to help them along.. There are much better subs than JBLs offerings for the same price, Edited October 25, 2008 by trofius
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