So, given the spate of people posting some bad posts of late from hotmail - I've been considering going down the path of banning hotmail from registrations. This is in line with many other boards out there on the net, as it is a growing problem.

Naturally, this will have reprecussions. But! Given we don't send UCE from this member database, I don't see it as a huge problem for members to register using their ISP address.

This won't be implemented without considering feedback, so what do you all think?

No issues here (although I will need to change my reg to a different email address - yahoo mail ok ? ;-)

Cheers,

Bitey

Sounds like a good idea to me. Real participants shouldn't have a problem using their real email address - and if they do, most ISPs offer multiple email addresses for free (or a small fee).

But what about other common webmail addresses such as yahoo etc? Spammers would use those too, so should yahoo be banned? Where do you draw the line - should all 'freebie' domains be banned? That might upset a few real users of this board.

No issues here (although I will need to change my reg to a different email address - yahoo mail ok ? ;-)

Cheers,

Bitey

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm assuming it would only apply to new registrations, rather than retrospective? (Or at least, not retrospective beyond the start of this thread, or similar?)

{Otherwise, imagine the embarassment when I have to fill out the email field with my work email address: santa@liberal.org.au}

So, given the spate of people posting some bad posts of late from hotmail - I've been considering going down the path of banning hotmail from registrations.

...

This won't be implemented without considering feedback, so what do you all think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a shame, and it will end up being a 'catchup' game with all the other free email providers, but it sounds like it is unfortunately the only way to reduce people creating accounts just so they can be difficult.

I can't see any other way around the problem, to be honest. It would be nice if the next release of the board software had a switch that 'turned off' free email sites - I think I've seen this in some other software (they have a long list that is maintained regularly).

- Miles.

{Otherwise, imagine the embarassment when I have to fill out the email field with my work email address: santa@liberal.org.au}

I'll have to check with Haliburton on company policy.

FWIW, I use hotmail for ALL web activity and private email only for close friends and clients.

{Otherwise, imagine the embarassment when I have to fill out the email field with my work email address: santa@liberal.org.au}

I'll have to check with Haliburton on company policy.

FWIW, I use hotmail for ALL web activity and private email only for close friends and clients.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same here (as I'm sure you'd have guess given the paranoia for which I'm famous!) ... and even then I still get bloody spam!

I have thought of some positives and negatives:

Positives:

Stops spammers.

Better control of email addresses

Negatives:

A lot of people use Hotmail/Yahoo/other free ones (eg. GMail) because the only email address they have is a work one.

Same applies for those who don't want their personal email address known to randoms on the internet.

Some people don't even have a personal email address (I used to not have one until the current ISP my family uses).

Now you shown your real colors Santa - A Liberal Santa is one that is not "Labored".

Most should have their own E-mail address here anyway and maybe many want to have their own private E-Mail address which is not read by others who use their computer. If Hotmail is a problem, will other "virtual" E-mail systems cause a problem as well?

Yeah, other freebie sites will tend to be outlawed I guess in that regard. Although historically, most problems come from Hotmail. I can see merit for allowing Gmail, since its harder to get an account compared to the others.

Any change wouldn't be made retrospective. As such, I would also be open to allowing members usage of Hotmail account on a per-instance basis. Requires more leg work on my end.

So, I guess ultimately I could propose thus:

1. Free accounts on signup outlawed;

2. Use of free accounts allowed by PM request subsequent to account signup.

I could probably have some stipulations on the transferral to a free account - maybe 10 posts before allowing it, or something similar.

Ultimately, the way of the future for a lot of web services is to not allow any free email services for registration. I dislike it, but that's the way it is. Given we're all a pretty tech-savvy bunch, I'll try and be as flexible with you all as possible.

As far as having your "private" email address leaked to randoms as Kenneth said, this won't happen. The board software does not reveal your email address by default to other members, and we won't be using the member list outside of DBA Forum requirements. Emailing through the board software will reveal your address, as will turning off the "Private" option in your "My Controls". Naturally, administrators can see your address, but that's a very small group of people.

If you would prefer that other members cannot email you, set the first setting to 'hide' at this link: http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?act=UserCP&CODE=02

Coral,

I use my hotmail account mailnly its because its the only account i have. However, if you were to outlaw hotmail, would G-Mail be ok?

Coral,

I use my hotmail account mailnly its because its the only account i have. However, if you were to outlaw hotmail, would G-Mail be ok?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless I'm misreading Coral, you're fine, as you are an existing member.

Whats being proposed is stopping signups from using hotmail to prevent/reduce the kind of postings like that one last night shouting "Hear ye! Hear ye! Big Al's Supa Discounts is positively GIVING AWAY tvs today! Get a panasony KEV3040WK for just $3000 - thats BELOW COST! And they're great! My wife's got one and she swears by it..."

Nod, existing members need not to worry. And then, even new ones won't need to worry if they take the moment to send me a nice message asking an email change to a hotmail account.

The reason is ultimately due to the precise example Santa provided.

Coral

At the end of the day you are running the show I believe as I have said in the past we are here by "Invitation" but what makes this site special is what you are doing here now and that's asking for opinions....wish goverment depts work the same way

cheers laurie

I merely keep the party going

I merely keep the party going

Ahh, but you do it with style - except you keep forgetting to bring the beer.

I think it's a good idea to require registration from a non-free email address. As people have pointed out, most, if not all, ISPs hand out multiple email accounts to their customers for free, so setting up one for all your "public" correspondence shouldnt be a huge hassle for anyone. Lot of employers also allow employees to have multiple mail aliases as well.

Hopefully it will cut down the spam a bit. It would be even better if the board software could flag when different logins make posts from the same IP address, which would help keep ghost accounts under control too.

I merely keep the party going

Ahh, but you do it with style - except you keep forgetting to bring the beer.

I think it's a good idea to require registration from a non-free email address. As people have pointed out, most, if not all, ISPs hand out multiple email accounts to their customers for free, so setting up one for all your "public" correspondence shouldnt be a huge hassle for anyone. Lot of employers also allow employees to have multiple mail aliases as well.

Hopefully it will cut down the spam a bit. It would be even better if the board software could flag when different logins make posts from the same IP address, which would help keep ghost accounts under control too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, the host shouldn't be "bringing the beer" ... thats OUR job! (And not bloody HeinieCan )

flag when different logins make posts from the same IP address, which would help keep ghost accounts under control too

Apart from where one IP is used as a gateway address for a company, etc.

It would be nicer to have a smart spam-bot which zaps naughty posts!

{IE: Anything with "come on down to" or "my mate at HN's doing the most amazing deals today" or "you know, it may seem like a coincidence, but I've got yet another cheap plasma on the market... hell - I've got dozens ... and they've GOT TO GO!"... }

Hey, the host shouldn't be "bringing the beer" ... thats OUR job! (And not bloody HeinieCan  )

You, and others around here, have certainly got the entertainment covered. <grin>

Apart from where one IP is used as a gateway address for a company, etc.

Fair point - though all the people in that situation should stop surfing the web and get back to work - how else are they going to afford to buy more toys?

At least if the posts were flagged for the admins, then it would help weed out the obvious ghosts. Though the spam-bot is a good idea - I find the usual giveaway is when the same account links to, or mentions, the same website/business for more than about 25% of their posts. Eeek, as long as signatures are excluded, else none of my posts would survive.

I agree that this forum should probably follow the trend, but remember that not all @hotmail.com's are bad -- I'm registered now on a hotmail address.

I applaud the plan to allow trusted member to switch over to their hotmail accounts, this is better than many sites offer.

Short rant though -- what about people who are *paying* for accounts at Hotmail, Yahoo or the other free-or-pay e-mail providers? I'm having problems with certain websites for this very regard, and quite often you *can't* use employer/institution accounts for everything. You also *can't* get out of Hotmail without painfully unsubscribing and resubscribing under a new address.

Thanks for consulting use though when you make changes - this is about the best managed group I'm on.

Joshua King

True, people do pay for Hotmail accounts. However, we're talking about a minority - I'd say, less than 1%. This will dwindle as the competitors flog on the back of the "Lots of storage" bandwagon and shift from Hotmail. Sad truth is, Hotmail is a problem now for a lot of people (and moderators!).

I'll have a think about it and come back with a plan of action.

(HyperReality - I was reading in one of the IPB forums that they are encoding some checksumming for accounts to detect ghosts. They will take a snapshot of things like browser info, etc. Still some work to be done, and without obtaining browser serial numbers (Pentium 3 Serials anyone?) - ghosting from different IPs will always be a problem.)

You really can't rely on the source IP for detecting ghosts. Not only do many companies operate within a NAT'd environment, in which all requests appear to be coming from a single machine (IP), most ISPs (and companies) provide a web proxy and encourage or even force customers to use this -- and again, all requests appear to originate from the proxy. Although there is (normally) a header within requests that originate from a proxy which shows the 'real' IP, this can be suppressed by configuration of the proxy. Bottom line is... you can't use source IPs to uniquely identify people (or even detect multiple accounts). All you would do is annoy legit people, and besides, those who are really serious can easily get around it all by bouncing things from different machines, use anonymizing services (such as anonymizer.com) or simply use a different machine (friends, or at work) if for whatever reason they want to operate a ghost account.

I think banning Hotmail (and similar) accounts is a good idea, though I can see that this is going to inconvenience a lot of legit people. I guess there's no perfect solution here.

Adam

You really can't rely on the source IP for detecting ghosts. ...

Yes - I agree. I only mentioned common IP addresses as a way of expanding the discussion - I think that Santa's spam bot/analysis is a good idea. Our experience is that most ghosts/spammers are relatively simple to identify through a very simple (and conducive to automatic) analysis of the content of their posts - they usually link to, or mention, the same business over and over again (or in a high proportion of their posts). I'm not advocating post auto-deletion, just that it would be nice if there were tools that help the admins to keep the problem under control.

Anyway, sorry Coral for driving this somewhat off thread - you know how much ghosts offend my sense of business ethics.

Who ya gonna call...

Coral,

Instead of banning "Hotmail" registrations, perhaps you could apply a spelling,punctuation, and grammar filter to weed out the undesirables. I know of at least one pest who would be eliminated!(no prizes for guessing)