SMS 200 Help Required

[Jventer]

@jrhill

I use flac and aiff most. I think, if WAV is the format of choice for playback, dbPoweramp (and other software) can do batch conversions. 

Re your power supply options: I would go uptone based on reviews, maybe people her can give more advice.

If you are good with a soldering iron check out: http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1172

[Bilbo]

@jrhill &@Jventer

When it comes to power supplies I have found that bigger is better (amps that is) and sounds better.

In fact I believe that the power supply is the most important bit of the puzzle.  I know that many will shake their heads in dismay but I have fed things like the Regen which only draws about 100ma with a matching supply then tried it with a 2 amp supply and been blown away by the difference. This is a consistent outcome with all the gear I have tested with kick ass power supplies.  The SMS-200 only draws about 200ma or so but the battery I use is 75Ah and has 975 amps cold cranking.  Talk about overkill, but if I feed it with a little 7Ahr battery the difference is obvious.  

 

Now the thing is to keep this all in perspective.  The first thing you need is the basic kit that plays music.  Fine tuning with power supplies and footers should come after you have a basic working system.

The HDD and dock, SMS-200, Soundirok loaded on an iPad and you are good to go.

I started with a spare 500Gb HDD I had lying around and a $25 Simplecom dock. You can copy your files to other larger HDD's as required.  Waiting for the 2nd hand SMS-200's will probably cost around $450 or so. You can use your PC to run Eunhasu and JRiver to play files through the SMS-200.  All up a reasonably priced entry into Computer audio that will sound very good.

Tweaking with different HDD's, docks, power supplies, cables etc will make it sound absolutely fantastic but you gotta start somewhere and this is the simplest and cheapest entry method I know.

[HdB]

Yeah, probably getting a bit ahead of myself, as usual!

I did find that Astone SOC 250E here in melb, and the will take my time with the HDDs, but might move on the P/Supply

 

That one you referred to Johannes, only does about 200mA (LT3042) so need bigger brother for the SOtM - maybe a lt1086 or even a lt3083,4 or 5.   Then have to organise the circuit for the purely digital use that's not quite the same for most analogue purposes - a bit of work required here but lots information at Uptone, SBooster, etc - this is about my only diy contribution to this part of the project.

 

Thanks guys for all the help and info - much appreciated.

[Guest gnnett]

Bilbo is 200% right! If a (digital) technophobe like me can get it up and running anyone can.

 

Cheers

 

Gn

[Bilbo]

3 hours ago, jrhill said:

It's funny that you mention the storage on the jRiver - I also use jRiver (old V21) but very few stored as WAV, mostly FLAC, or other - I'm guessing that I can't convert them into WAV, so this probably means I'll have to burn them again - does it make much of a difference on playback?

 

You can convert these using the rippers I referred to in an earlier post so no need to rip them again.

 

5 hours ago, Jventer said:

One thing I would like to highlight is the fact that @Bilbo is maintaining the metadata of his files with JRiver which is separate to the disk where he copies his WAV files for playback.  WAV is not well known for its tagging and metadata qualities. File format is another issue that is widely debated, my approach is to have it in a format where you have all the metadata, tagging etc and then play in whatever format sound the best for you on your system.

 

Whilst the disks are separate they are simply different versions of the same data.  The one connected to the SMS-200 is the playback drive.  The one connected to the PC is the one I use to add new albums and edit the metadata.  When I have enough new stuff on the PC drive I clone this to the drive connected to the SMS-200 using the clone facility built into the Astone dock.  Then I take one of the two identical drives and stick it back into the dock connected to my PC so I can continue to add new files and edit the metadata.  This also provides me with a backup so that if either drive fails I have not lost all my files.

Soundirok has a routine to "Update the Database" from the SMS-200.  It takes about 10 minutes and then all the metadata I have edited as well as the new albums are available to be played.

[Bilbo]

@jrhill @Jventer

Footers - a tricky situation here - I'm sworn to secrecy given the experience with Stillpoints.

However I have an OLD photo of one of the earlier prototypes though we have changed a few things since this was taken.  We spent a year testing everything - dimensions, depth, materials (wood, ball bearings, spacers) and the final product is excellent (and a hell of a lot cheaper than Stillpoints).  I cannot divulge more - I hope you understand - my friend would not be happy.

Now go and shoot yourselves so the secret is safe!

 

[HdB]

Well THEY certainly look different - are you going into production?

 

Okay, no need to rip all the cds again - big relief - I did read your comments but didn't understand - it's happened before, unfortunately!

 

I just got thru the 'stuff' about the Docks and power supplies - it seems far too simple with the 2 HDDs - in fact, after struggling with the idea of the mac-mini and the RasberryPi, this SMS-200 seems rather straight forward and it makes me wonder just how much I'm missing - will lookup the Soundirok control system tomorrow

 

I went back to your post about copying the files to WAV - again, missed the point so need to recap this too - so much to learn ...

 

I think tomorrow you get your styrene cutouts - pictures? 

[Bilbo]

I'll put some pictures up in the next few days.

I will be a bit busy till the weekend.

 

[Jventer]

2 hours ago, jrhill said:

Well THEY certainly look different - are you going into production?

 

Okay, no need to rip all the cds again - big relief - I did read your comments but didn't understand - it's happened before, unfortunately!

 

I just got thru the 'stuff' about the Docks and power supplies - it seems far too simple with the 2 HDDs - in fact, after struggling with the idea of the mac-mini and the RasberryPi, this SMS-200 seems rather straight forward and it makes me wonder just how much I'm missing - will lookup the Soundirok control system tomorrow

 

I went back to your post about copying the files to WAV - again, missed the point so need to recap this too - so much to learn ...

 

I think tomorrow you get your styrene cutouts - pictures? 

I will try to explain the way I now do it, on dbPoweramp and sometimes on EAC, but there are other products too.

1. rip the CD making sure I have all the info I want into FLAC,

2. also make sure that it has ripped properly by comparing it with a database (dbPoweramp calls it accurate rip)

3. if I did not get the info via ripping process go online use other tools to get the pictures etc.

 

This means I have my library in a format somewhere in the way I like it.

 

Then I use dbPoweramp and use its Batch conversion tool and convert everything into WAV into another folder/location. And then I do it into AIFF and then I do it to MP3.  In other words I have my whole library in 4 formats in 4 locations (or more). And then I take a backup to the office

 

dbPoweramp can actually rip to more than one format at the same time but I find it easier to have stuff in one format and location before I do further stuff. @Bilbo does it different, but the same principal applies - he has a central database or copy which he maintains and from there copy to other hard drives. He is also one step ahead of me as he uses the dock to clone and Soundirock to sync. 

 

Lots to learn, but I find it very interesting.

[Jventer]

4 hours ago, Bilbo said:

@jrhill @Jventer

Footers - a tricky situation here - I'm sworn to secrecy given the experience with Stillpoints.

However I have an OLD photo of one of the earlier prototypes though we have changed a few things since this was taken.  We spent a year testing everything - dimensions, depth, materials (wood, ball bearings, spacers) and the final product is excellent (and a hell of a lot cheaper than Stillpoints).  I cannot divulge more - I hope you understand - my friend would not be happy.

Now go and shoot yourselves so the secret is safe!

 

Thanks for details, so when are they coming on the market?

(I cant afford Stillpoints  )

[HdB]

Thanks Johannes,   I'll put my learning cap on and start my journey - this is the hard part for me

[Bilbo]

7 hours ago, Jventer said:

Thanks for details, so when are they coming on the market?

(I cant afford Stillpoints  )

 

They probably won't be commercialised because we're retired!

 

6 hours ago, jrhill said:

Thanks Johannes,   I'll put my learning cap on and start my journey - this is the hard part for me

 

Fear not, you'll pick it up in no time and remember Google is your friend. 

[HdB]

They look fascinating -  I'd like to try those out if you're building some more, and comfortable about confidentiality

Ordered a couple of the Teddy Pardo power supply modules - got lazy in my old age! 

 

Now for a nice small case with hefty 0.5*C/W heatsink (yeah, a bit over specced!)  Looks like a trawl thru Alibaba again - yawn!

[Jventer]

They look fascinating -  I'd like to try those out if you're building some more, and comfortable about confidentiality

Me too



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[Guest scumbag]

Well guys, I feeling a bit left behind here after reading all this stuff. I am running an SMS200 with the matching SOTM battery power. It sounds good to me. I'm not sure of the spec's on battery power supply but I don't feel it lacks in punch, clarity etc over something like a higher current LPS. Also I am just using an external 2.5" HDD playing mainly FLAC. Being a 2.5" HDD, it is powered by the SMS200 so no USB hub or power supply required for it. It all sounds great though a Devialet and a revealing set of speakers. To be honest, I really hate the though of converting my library into some other format for a small increase in sound quality - I guess I need to compare a WAV and FLAC file of the same file to convince myself of any benefits. 2L records have some sample files that have the same thing in multiple formats.

Also, I've been using the Squeezebox server. I guess HQplayer and Roon will give better results too from what I'm hearing. HQplayer seems the more sensibly priced option.

It sounds like I'm not doing everything to extract the best performance but I really am enjoying the music so I haven't even considered that it can get better!

Edited May 10, 2017 by scumbag

[Jventer]

11 hours ago, scumbag said:

Well guys, I feeling a bit left behind here after reading all this stuff. I am running an SMS200 with the matching SOTM battery power. It sounds good to me. I'm not sure of the spec's on battery power supply but I don't feel it lacks in punch, clarity etc over something like a higher current LPS. Also I am just using an external 2.5" HDD playing mainly FLAC. Being a 2.5" HDD, it is powered by the SMS200 so no USB hub or power supply required for it. It all sounds great though a Devialet and a revealing set of speakers. To be honest, I really hate the though of converting my library into some other format for a small increase in sound quality - I guess I need to compare a WAV and FLAC file of the same file to convince myself of any benefits. 2L records have some sample files that have the same thing in multiple formats.

Also, I've been using the Squeezebox server. I guess HQplayer and Roon will give better results too from what I'm hearing. HQplayer seems the more sensibly priced option.

It sounds like I'm not doing everything to extract the best performance but I really am enjoying the music so I haven't even considered that it can get better!

The posts over at usaudiomart and Computeraudiophile is quite scary in the sense of how much work the guys have put in.

The good news is guys like @Bilbo have specific setups that work so we can just copy them. His system is based on a specific separate dock and with certain things being powered  by certain power supplies.

Check out "romaz" and "elberoth"'s posts on Computerphile and tubelover on usaudiomart.

IMO they are going a bit overboard but when you read the following you will see what he thinks of Audiophilleo and Yellowtec. Look at the score, it is the last number in the line:

 

Ultra USB chain (details to long to list) 370
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB 170
Mutec 3+ Smart Clock USB/Cerious Power Cord 155
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2 145
PUC2 Lite TeraDak DC30W/Cerious/Regen 135
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious 135
DXIO Silver/TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious 130
Singxer X-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/iPur2 125
PUC2 Lite - USB power 110
Singxer F-1 Stock feed 110
Breeze/Cerious Graph/WBT RCA Nexgen 109
Breeze DU-U8 with Cerious Graphene 108
Breeze DU-U8 (Talema version) 100
Breeze DU-U8 (BingZi version) 95
Hydra Z with LPS 92
Melodious MX-U8 (upgraded caps) 85
Melodious MX-U8 (stock) 81
Gustard U12 (upgraded caps) 76
Gustard U12 stock 72
iDAC DAC2 (used as a DDC) 65
Musiland USB3.0 US Dragon 65
M2Tech EVO with LPS 60
Audiophileo 2 USB Power 50

 

 

 

 

[Guest scumbag]

Well lists are of some value as a way to grossly see some sort of pecking order.  Personally having heard a few of the xmos options with various ways of powering them and filtering their output, I found myself coming back to the Puc2. This is within the context of my system and my tastes is course. 

I see what you mean about being over the top. When I read "details too long to list", that's a bit of a warning sign 

[Bilbo]

12 hours ago, scumbag said:

Well guys, I feeling a bit left behind here after reading all this stuff. I am running an SMS200 with the matching SOTM battery power. It sounds good to me. I'm not sure of the spec's on battery power supply but I don't feel it lacks in punch, clarity etc over something like a higher current LPS. Also I am just using an external 2.5" HDD playing mainly FLAC. Being a 2.5" HDD, it is powered by the SMS200 so no USB hub or power supply required for it. It all sounds great though a Devialet and a revealing set of speakers. To be honest, I really hate the though of converting my library into some other format for a small increase in sound quality - I guess I need to compare a WAV and FLAC file of the same file to convince myself of any benefits. 2L records have some sample files that have the same thing in multiple formats.

 

I think you will find that a large number of people have determined that using a device that requires the SMS-200 to supply power to it is detrimental to the sound. Hence why a HDD in a dock or a network NAS will give a better result.  The issue with FLAC as opposed to WAV is that FLAC requires the CPU to unwrap the Codec into WAV and then send it to the DAC.  Removing the load from the CPU to do this is why many advocate WAV as a preferred file format.

 

1 hour ago, Jventer said:

IMO they are going a bit overboard but when you read the following you will see what he thinks of Audiophilleo and Yellowtec. Look at the score, it is the last number in the line:

 

Ultra USB chain (details to long to list) 370
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB 170
Mutec 3+ Smart Clock USB/Cerious Power Cord 155
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2 145
PUC2 Lite TeraDak DC30W/Cerious/Regen 135
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious 135
DXIO Silver/TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious 130
Singxer X-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/iPur2 125
PUC2 Lite - USB power 110
Singxer F-1 Stock feed 110
Breeze/Cerious Graph/WBT RCA Nexgen 109
Breeze DU-U8 with Cerious Graphene 108
Breeze DU-U8 (Talema version) 100
Breeze DU-U8 (BingZi version) 95
Hydra Z with LPS 92
Melodious MX-U8 (upgraded caps) 85
Melodious MX-U8 (stock) 81
Gustard U12 (upgraded caps) 76
Gustard U12 stock 72
iDAC DAC2 (used as a DDC) 65
Musiland USB3.0 US Dragon 65
M2Tech EVO with LPS 60
Audiophileo 2 USB Power 50

 

I had a look at the thread and agree the configurations they use are indeed quite convoluted.  I personally subscribe to the KISS principle when it comes to audio systems - the simpler the better (and cheaper).

I did do some interesting tests with my friends using various USB filters and regenerators (Regen, Jitterbug, etc) and found you could actually manipulate the sound depending on the order and position in the chain of each device.  After much fiddling around we determined that you could end up in a catch 22 circle with no great improvement at all.  With the SMS-200 I don't use any additional device, as whilst they may appear to offer some benefit initially there seems to be a compromise required somewhere else in the sonic palate.  It also goes against the KISS principle which I think is still the best way to go.

 

1 hour ago, scumbag said:

I see what you mean about being over the top. When I read "details too long to list", that's a bit of a warning sign 

 

It certainly is a warning sign!  A bit like Dorothy down the rabbit hole!

 

[Guest scumbag]

I think it was Alice down the rabbit hole! But I know what you mean. 

I have found using a ifi iusb3 to power my puc2 to give very satisfying results. The Puc2 into the devialet with the ifi iusb sounds more relaxed. 

So now I'm going to have to test the whole powering of the hdd. Luckily I have a spare ifi iusb2. Cool. Power and filtering in one go. I knew there was a reason i bought a second one! 

I am not going to convert my flac to WAV though. That would take too much time and hard drive space. 

 

[Bilbo]

19 minutes ago, scumbag said:

I am not going to convert my flac to WAV though. That would take too much time and hard drive space. 

 

I think the debate over FLAC and WAV file formats pales into insignificance compared to the grunt and quality of power supplies which I think are far more important.

 

19 minutes ago, scumbag said:

I think it was Alice down the rabbit hole! But I know what you mean. 

 

Good pickup 99!  Dorothy/Alice - sucked up/fall down - either way they both ended up in a crazy place. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Bilbo

[Bilbo]

On 5/9/2017 at 9:37 PM, jrhill said:

I think tomorrow you get your styrene cutouts - pictures? 

 

I've posted a picture of these in this thread.

 

[HdB]

Hi Bilbo,

I've chased around down here for that Astone DOC 250E and 'Stone Computers" have a used one and won't be further stocked - is there a suitable substitute, or is this one specifically the 'best'?  Is 2nd hand okay/reliable or should I look for a new other dual Dock?

 

Foam cuts look very promising - be interesting how they 'paint up'.

[Bilbo]

2 hours ago, jrhill said:

Hi Bilbo,

I've chased around down here for that Astone DOC 250E and 'Stone Computers" have a used one and won't be further stocked - is there a suitable substitute, or is this one specifically the 'best'?  Is 2nd hand okay/reliable or should I look for a new other dual Dock?

 

Foam cuts look very promising - be interesting how they 'paint up'.

 

As long as the used one works properly it should be fine. Whether it is the best - I don't know. What I do know is that it is better than the Simplecom one I first used and therefore by extension docks can influence the sound. That's something I did not think would matter but it does.  Maybe a get together where several docks are tried would shed more light on which might be the best.

The one advantage with the Astone is the capability to clone drives which forms the basis of my backup system.

[HdB]

Right, thanks - I'll take a chance - it's reduced to $45 - a known device, 1 less thing to think about!

[Bilbo]

Cheap enough to take a risk!