HT1100 or jump to Benq 8700?

[ivancen]

Hi to all pj gurus,

 

read much of the thread here though not really very clear of the implications of certain details esp in the specs. I narrowed what I wanted to the above 2 pj.

 

My rationale is I sorta feel the dust blob in LCD makes it more diff to maintain in long run even though Jag pointed out that dLP have dust settling on mirror and colour wheel also. Second, I m not comfy w the idea that LCD PQ decreases as one uses it as I hope for a once install then forget until some reasonable time eg 3 yrs hopefully. I will of cos check if i'm affected greatly by the rainbow before i purchase.

 

Looking at specs and price, it seems 2 good value DLP pj will be ht1100 and Benq 8700. But I'm not sure whch suit me better and hope for some comments from experienced pple:

 

1) I dun have TV and will hook up pj with SCV (the standard "free" type) as source. I know it's a waste to use pj but i seldom watch Tv anyway, maybe 10hr a week. HT1100 native 4:3 is hence suitable, esp cos I occasionally will hook up PC to it as well. However my primary purpose is still to watch dvds on it, mostly friendly dvd9s. So I'm quite torn as to whether 16:9 is what i should get, even though i prob also plan to spend only 10hr a week watching dvds. I read that the anamorphic lens come bundled with HT1100 overseas, issit true here as well? Anyone knows if it will make maintainence much much tougher?

 

2) Check specs seems compatibility with format, NEC has more, but not sure if the more formats are actually useful ones in singapore context. ANy comments?

 

3) Hope to use digital if possible but which is better DVI-I or DVI-D?

 

4) NEC uses Matterhorn while Benq use HD2+ Mustang. which is better implementation? Am i right to say HD2+ is newer and superior?

 

5) Since I watch TV and maybe other interlaced video on pj, which PJ gives a better deinterlacer effect? I prob use an existing Zinwell equilvalent tuner (with stereo nicam it seems) to provide a signal. Is a pro device like ISCAN pro worth getting for my case? Also do i need a better scalar for my usage?

 

6) I m going to "ceiling mount" to an existing beam near ceiling. Which one is easier to mount for me?

 

7) There's short and long throw. My throw length is about 9ft, i think both are compatible, but better check with u guys first.

 

8) Lastly and very impt, NEC is USD$4,795 it seems while Benq is USD$5000 in USA. In Singapore, the impression i get from thread is NEC=S$5500 and Benq=S$8500. This makes NEC more value for money right? Does this price come with the anamorphic lens?

 

Thanks for enduring my long post. Hope to her comments soon.

[ivancen]

Oh yes, continue on the topic, I have a Samsung M108 currently. Still good condition as seldom used (have not had TV or hifi playing at home for 2 years plus, long story) Should I change to better one and what model?

 

For th pj, just remembered i will prob want to watch some movies, avi or mostly mpg from my pc as well. Thanks

[Jag]

1) You just need to ask yourself whether 16:9 or 4:3 is more important to you. Only you yourself can answer this.

 

2) In most HT use, both pjs will have the right formats to be compatible.

 

3) DVI-D is better for sure. Unless the pj/source internally processes the DVI-D negatively.

 

4) Mustang is AKA HD2(+). HD2+ dlps are all optimised for home theater use from the dlp chip. The NEC uses computer grade DLPs but optimised for HT. So the only diff is the aspect ratio again. You just need to decide which ratio is more important for you.

 

5) I cannot say much for HT1100, but the Benq uses the same deinterlacer as iscan. Big bonus for benq8700.

 

6) Honestly, I feel the NEC is easier to ceiling mount. Just study the throw lengths and offsets for both pj and you will understand which is better suited for you.

 

7) Throw length is the most likely factor that will decide which pj to get. At 9ft, the benq will give you a 16:9 image with as big a width of between 66" to 79". At the same 9th, you will only be able to get a screen between 58" and 70" wide. Benq will give you a bigger image width than NEC.

 

8) Local NEC price is very attractive. But it does not come with anamorphic lens. I feel that HD2 pjs have more pixels per image than XGA dlps, with or without anamorphic lens.

 

 

I feel the deciding factor between these 2 pjs is the throw length.

 

 

[ivancen]

Thanks Jag for taking time to answer my so many queries. I will look at the living room again and take your points into considereration. But looks like Benq takes the lead in fulfilling my needs, except for the price of cos. Will seriously consider :)

[tsammyc]

I think you have to view in reasonably optimal conditions to decide whether $3K is worth it for the HD2+. I'm around Saturday night (but going out of town on Sunday) if you want to check out a HT1100. PM me if interested.

[ivancen]

thanks for the offer. Wun be able to go on Sat though :(

 

Yes i understand viewing conditions must be optimal to appreciate the visual difference, which I wonder if i can really replicate.

 

But the main pull factors so far are:

 

1) excellent built-in deinterlacer, Sil504 apparently. I wun need to think abt another deinterlacer when I watch TV programmes and sometimes VCDs (no choice, DVDs are not worth if movie is mediocre). Also I'm using Samsung M108 and means I dun need to upgrade to expensive DVDP since mainly is deinterlacer difference only due to progressive component output. But this point I not too sure yet if I m right.

 

2) was told NEC lets dust in easier (is this true?) while Benq not so easily. I hope not too frequent maintenance.

 

3) larger image size, though this one may not be most impt for now.

 

4) no amorphorous lens, which according to review i read is one of the best reasons to get nec at the price.

 

but I agree i may change my mind still because:

 

1) I am not using high end stuff mostly, so HT experience have bottleneck. My equip is Denon 3802, Tannoy spkrs, Samsung M108 (not sure should upgrade or not), REL Strata3.

 

2)My room cannot be that dark esp when watching TV so the higher contrast of NEC may be more suitable.

 

3)Jag mentioned DVI-D on the NEC probably superior to DVI-I on Benq. Also I wonder when the future formats supported by Benq will be out n popularize. I mean i can't afford to buy limited edition (means ex) software. In fact i mostly own friendly unrated software and only a few rated originals. The sw is prob the bottleneck here.

 

4)$3k is indeed alot, given the overseas price is so different. Also my original budget did not stretch to so far. Just that I tot dun need to buy ISCAN or equivilent so save a bit there.

 

 

These r the factors I'm thinking about now. Do feel free to correct my perception if I got my facts wrong somewhere.

 

Thanks guys :)

[Jag]

  Quote

3)Jag mentioned DVI-D on the NEC probably superior to DVI-I on Benq. Also I wonder when the future formats supported by Benq will be out n popularize. I mean i can't afford to buy limited edition (means ex) software. In fact i mostly own friendly unrated software and only a few rated originals. The sw is prob the bottleneck here

 

I never said DVI-D on the NEC is better than DVI-I on the Benq. I consider DVI-I interface the superior interface than DVI-D simply because of its superior flexibility.

 

Since Benq has DVI-I, its better than DVI-D.

 

Since you have HK source, might as well consider the IF7205 also.

 

Since we are buying overseas, might as well consider the Optoma H77, Marantz 12S3, IF5700, Benq 7800, Misubishi 2000.

[Jag]

Before continuing on buying a dlp pj sight unseen, its best that you actually view the pjs you intend to buy. Make the effort to view before buying because DLPs have certain flaws that some will not like.

 

Most of today's pjs in your price range don't have very severe rainbow effect anymore. However, the other major flaw is temporal dithering.

 

Artifacts of TD is false contouring and graininess. FC will not be a huge problem for benq. I can't comment on other pjs thou. However, graininess will affect all DLPs.

 

 

If your HT will have much ambient light, stay away from Benq or H77. Stick with IF7200/7205. They will be brighter, at the slight expense of black level even with brighter ambient light.

 

Honestly, if not for the longer throw length of the NEC and its 4:3 DMD, I would have got that instead. Benq however fitted my requirements like a glove. Every user has unique requirements and you should prioritise yours too.

 

Well, you can audition my benq at your convenience. Frankly, the NEC or IF7200/7205 suits you best from what you've mentioned so far.

 

Benq suited me coz if its short throw length, 16:9 and its exceptionally low black level that results in that 3-D look of the movie. Besides, the benq design is also used in Runco and vidikron pjs, so can be assured of very good pq.

[tsammyc]

(1) If you get a $5-9K projector, I seriously recommend getting a DVDP with DVI so I would spend the $450 or so on a Momitsu rather than keep the Samsung M108. The PQ quality difference is astonishing.

 

(2) The NEC has sealed optics, so no problem with dust and cleaning is simple. On the previous model HT-1000, the lamp heat caused some vapourisation which contaminated the colour wheel and crazed the lamp. No evidence yet on the HT-1100.

 

(3) The anamorphic lens is an upgrade option, but it throws a wonderful DVD image even without it. The two reasons to get the anamorphic lens is if you want a brighter image (since you are using more of the panel) or have HDTV material.

 

(4) I have relatively cheap sound - 2+ year old Yammy 630 and Wharfedale Diamond Cinema, yet except for the bass, everything is as crisp and I have little urge to upgrade except for the subwoofer. I think your other equipment is just fine unless you don't like the sound

 

(5) If you don't have a very dark room, the HT-1100 is not for you. As Jag mentioned, try one of the Infocus "light cannons"

 

Before you take the plunge into the $6-9K range, do check out the Infocus 4805. It is $3.1K and apparently all the units are flying off the shelves as fast as they can get to Singapore.

[wind30]

ya,

 

I have viewed both the IF5700 and HT1100 one after another on a firehawk screen. The room was pretty dark and yet the HT1100 looks too dim after we viewed the IF5700. Maybe the firehawk is not right for the HT1100 but even on the OTHER (dunno what screen) the HT1100 does not look as punchy as the IF5700 on the firehawk. The blacks looks as black as the HT1100 (to me) but the colors are much brighter... If your room is not dark, HT1100 will not look good.... what you want is lumens not contrast if your room is not dark.

 

Basically I am pretty impressed with IF and firehawk combi. There are a few places in Singapore that demo IF projectors on Firehawk screen.

 

You can get the IF7200 in HK for around S$6000.... even with an additional fixed firehawk screen will only cost slightly more than the benq8700+ without screen. Same resolution and roughly the same throw ratio... but MUCH brighter, very good for for room with ambient light. Not forgetting you get a nice looking Stewart firehawk screen.

 

If your budget is around 6-9k, getting a projector in HK will save thousands of dollars unless you have some super cheap lobang that I am not aware of :)

 

Best of all, infocus will honour the warranty in SINGAPORE provided you bought it from authorised resellers in HK. So got nothing to lose.

 

Oh,

 

Benq told me that they will NOT honour warranty for set bought overseas. Unless you want to sent the unit back to HK for servicing, don't buy Benq. Epson is the other brand with international warranty. dunno how much is the TW500. Great reviews but shitty prices in Singapore.

[Jag]

  Quote

You can get the IF7200 in HK for around S$6000.... even with an additional fixed firehawk screen will only cost slightly more than the benq8700+ without screen. Same resolution and roughly the same throw ratio... but MUCH brighter, very good for for room with ambient light.

 

Benq8700+ and IF7200 are different throw ratio. IF7200 can't get the same image size as the 8700+ at the same distance.

[wind30]

ya,

 

the image from the IF7200 will be around 10% smaller so I said roughly :) but it will be bigger than the HT1100. Still I read about something bad about the IF7200 at max zoom. Anyway, if you want to use the firehawk, max zoom is not recommended due to hotspotting. Stewart says min 1.6:1 throw ratio.

 

.... on second thought, if your throw length is only 9ft maybe the firehawk not very suitable. use grekhawk

 

 

[tsammyc]

Sometimes punchy may look better i.e. brighter colours etc, but question is whether it looks like film i.e., smooth colours, 3 dimensionality etc.

 

I really don't think it is necessary to buy a Stewart screen with a HT-1100. The contrast is so great that any old white screen will do. I use a Draper 100 inch portable screen and it is just fine.

[Jag]

I find that the contrast on my 8700+ with my Draper Hi-con Grey screen already gives me very good images.

 

3-dimension, natural skin tones, deep shadow details and excellent colour fidelity can be obtained after calibrating with Avia.

 

The IF 7200 have been known to be light cannons. All the HD pjs are more different than many think.

 

Benq8700 : Ideal for short throw rooms and minimal ambient light

 

H77 : Ideal for medium throw room and minimal ambient light

 

IF7200 : Ideal of medium throw room with some ambient light

 

 

[wind30]

Ya,

 

actually the best is to demo it in your place then you know what the image looks like and people have totally different preference for the "look" they want. Some like contrast, detail, others like bright and punchy pictures. So must see for yourself.

 

Another thing to consider is what sort of inputs you want. I need 2 progressive component inputs (one Xbox, one gamecube) 1 s-video (PS2) and DVI for my DVD player. Make sure your projector has them, else you need to buy extra hardware.

 

Another point is that the Benq need calibration to get good colors while infocus always boast that their unit is has good colors calibration right out of the box. Impt for newbies like me who TOTALLY dunno how to calibrate nor have the hardware to do it.

 

And the screensize you want is VERY impt. For your 9ft throw, I think you cannot get very big. If you want a BIG (>110 diag")screensize, I think IF is the way to go. For smaller screensize, the brightness of IF may not be so useful and in fact may be too bright if you pair with the wrong screen.

[tsammyc]

  Quote

3-dimension, natural skin tones, deep shadow details and excellent colour fidelity can be obtained after calibrating with Avia.

 

I don't know if all projectors can be made equal through calibration with Avia although it should improve the projector. A professional calibration can cost quite a bit. Ability to produce film like colours and depth is one of the key differentiating factors among projectors for film enthusiasts.

[tsammyc]

Wind30, I have both DVE and Avia, but waste of money in some ways because I find it to straining on my brain to calibrate after spending many frustrating hours with my AE100. Eventually, I just input various suggestions posted on AVSForum and it looked the best. On my HT-1100, I didn't bother with DVE or Avia. I just used the THX Optimiser with the blue glasses that came with DVE, but found that I didn't have to change anything. It was perfect out of the box.

[muscular27]

  Quote

Another point is that the Benq need calibration to get good colors while infocus always boast that their unit is has good colors calibration right out of the box. Impt for newbies like me who TOTALLY dunno how to calibrate nor have the hardware to do it.

 

Well, tat's the claim from IF but you DO need to calibrate the 7200 (I have a 7200). I prefer using DVE for video calibration esp the grayscale since AVIA is reputed to be rather incorrect for certain aspets of the video calibration. Though the calibrations are quite 'small'. Also, the screen you are going to have will have some effect on the eventual PQ so, yes, you do need to calibrate.

[wind30]

Muscular27,

 

r u satisfied with your IF7200? did it have the color wheel whine issue? What screen r u using? Really thinking about getting that esp it is like $6k from HK. In Singapore it is around $9k from fastlogic, which is 2k cheaper than what the IMM shop quoted me.

 

of course the IF projectors will not be perfect. But from what I read, the calibration needed is minor compared to other brands like benq. but all these are hearsay from AVSForum :)

 

Just went to IMM level 2 and took a look at the shop that sells bose system. The firehark fixed screen setup is very nice. The decor I mean. Those people getting ideas who to integrate a fixed screen into their living room should go down and take a look.

 

 

[muscular27]

I had logged 150 hrs so far. No colour wheel whine issue at all. And in my setup, the pj is right next to my ears.. ;D The other issue is the msg of changin the bulb when usage reaches 200 hrs only...I have not reached there yet and so can't comment on tat yet. And I got it locally lesser than the $9k.. ;) As I said before, it depends on how well you bargain and the 'lobangs' you have.

 

I'm very satisfied with the pj actually since my setup is in my living hall and hence there's ambient light. So I opt for the 7200. If not, I would have gone for the BenQ 8700+. ;D The screen is Da-lite High Contrast Matte White (grey based) and measured 87" in width on a DIY frame. The distance from pj to screen is 13 feet..so much for a long throw pj.

 

When you demo it, you would have noticed whether there's wheel whine issue or not?

[Jag]

The benq is actually fantastic out of the box.

 

I'd still calibrate it with a proper calibration DVD to get the most out of it, no matter how good the settings is out of box.

[muscular27]

Totally agree with Jaggy. No matter how good the claims of rite out of the box performance is, my mind will not be at peace unless I do some calibration with the dve or avia. If there's no adjustments to be done after using the software, then great...but for the 7200, I did make some adjustments to the settings.

[Jag]

Pjs will always need some form of calibration. I prefer to run the equipment knowing that the simple adjustments of colour, contrast brightness,...etc are set properly.

[wind30]

I guess calibration is needed.

 

But I did "try" to calibrate my PC LCD screen for accurate colors using Adobe gamma, ie use your own eyes kind of stuff. In the end, I gave up and bought myself a spyder, which comes with a sensor.

 

Dunno if my eyes is up to the task :) but still if one spends thousands, should at least use the manual calibration as I guess auto calibration kit is SUPER EXPENSIVE in the projector world.

[muscular27]

Tats why you are in a forum ma....we are all here to help you with calibration if you so need one... :)

 

spending thousands of dollars of cos will not guarantee you a 'perfect' product.