alanh Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 http://www.culture.gov.uk/publications_full/9733.aspx#2 This is a set of government document. They are specifying that all new receivers must be DAB+ capable enabling an eventual switchover. Portable radios must still be able to receive FM and car radios must also be able to recieve AM. Car radios must also be able to automatical switch between transmitters depending on signal quality. HThis includes switching from DAB+ to AM. AlanH
GoForMoe Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 "This specification is not compulsory for all receivers." http://www.culture.gov.uk/images/publications/Domestic_Min__Spec.pdf (p8) It's a labelling scheme like our Digital Ready mark, not a requirement that something 'must' be capable of DAB+ - just nothing that isn't can't be given this new tick either. It's also worth emphasising that the eventual switchover referred to is a FM to DAB one, not a DAB to DAB+ one. This other document is a good overview of their consideration of other platforms - they've more or less dismissed DRM/DRM+/Satelite/HD Radio - but are positive about 3G/4G/DVB-T. http://www.culture.gov.uk/images/publications/Role_of_other_platforms.pdf
DrP Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) alanh has great difficulty with the term 'compulsory'. Let's all recall alanh's continual re-statement that the use of PS and SBR (that's spectral band replication btw alanh not spectrum bandwidth replacement - what ever the hell that means) is compulsory in Australian DAB+ broadcasts and enjoy a moment's laughter. Of course, we all know that SBR and PS are not compulsory in the broadcasts and that highlights his comprehension problem nicely. *edit to include link to curious alanh terminology Edited February 26, 2013 by DrP
dbrmuz Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 AlanH World.Where reality is never an issue.
alanh Posted February 27, 2013 Author Posted February 27, 2013 DRM30 is not suitable for a small island with a population which is 3 times ours. It covers to large an area. DAB+/DAB is much more suited to large population densities where there is many potential and actual broadcasters. I did not make any comment about whether the specifications are compulsory, however with so many European countries using DAB+ it is not worth producing DAB only receivers for the UK only. The usual uneducated comments. Alanh
Guest Malich Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 I did not make any comment about whether the specifications are compulsory... I could've sworn Alan typed... They are specifying that all new receivers must be DAB+ capable... The usual uneducated comments. Indeed. From the usual source, too, I see...
DrP Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 alanh attempting to re-write history? Nah. That'd never happen.
GoForMoe Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) DRM30 is not suitable for a small island with a population which is 3 times ours. It covers to large an area. DRM+ is however a fantastic system to use in this use case but has been rejected alongside DRM30 for no significat reason. DAB+/DAB is much more suited to large population densities where there is many potential and actual broadcasters. While in the UK experience being very expensive for smaller operators with multiplex carriage fees. A DAB+ transition might make the barrier to entry lower by further reducing the minimum data required for a vaguely acceptable service, but smaller operators, particularly community radio licences will still struggle while the multiplex model continues to exist. The UK's major limiting factor is because of population density - there's not enough unique blocks available to provide for enough bandwidth to make it easy to get on DAB, so smaller stations are squeezed out, with only the BBC Local Radio stations having any form of must-carry or automatic allocation on a multiplex, unlike our situation where all stations on AM/FM were given a certain level of spectrum. Of course the takeup of DAB in the UK was strengthened by the additional competition from many digital only stations, so it's not all bad; but it does result in many spectrum issues that would have been eased by the selection of a supplementary digital terrestrial radio format like DRM+. I did not make any comment about whether the specifications are compulsory, Please highlight where I said you did. Edited February 27, 2013 by GoForMoe
alanh Posted February 28, 2013 Author Posted February 28, 2013 http://www.frequencyfinder.org.uk/digi_freq.html shows 12 RF channels are used and 2 awaiting allocation. Comparing this to Australia we have 8 channels after the restack. DRM+ is ideal for smaller broadcasters. The UK is yet to transmit any DAB+ on a permanent basis, let alone DRM+. The Europeans are pushing for a single receiver chip which will decode all digital and analog transmission systems. Roll on when 50 % of listeners are using digital. AlanH
Guest Malich Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 The Europeans are pushing for a single receiver chip which will decode all digital and analog transmission systems. I thought they should have already existed before now e.g. "There will be a big release of single chip DAB+/DRM+/DRM30/AM/FM receiver chips in the first quarter of next year" (i.e. early 2012)?
GoForMoe Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 http://www.frequency.../digi_freq.html shows 12 RF channels are used and 2 awaiting allocation. Comparing this to Australia we have 8 channels after the restack. And 8 is extremely insufficient for DAB+, let alone DAB, where 12 or 14 causes huge issues of spectrum access. Think about the issues Australia will have allocating DAB+ blocks in the areas surrounding capital cities, or for sub-metro areas - and then compare the relative amount and density of stations in the UK - you can find some interesting FM Band scan videos on YouTube for a practical example of that - but the short of it is to realise that in the majority of the UK the majority of stations on the FM band in many areas will be full. The issues however are more financial - because of spectrum scarcity, the carriage costs are high, which means most DAB multiplexes in the UK do not use all of their spectrum, despite missing stations - and that's with some of the highest DAB takeup in the world. Spectrum issues aren't just a matter of the availability of spectrum, it's the access costs. DRM+ is ideal for smaller broadcasters. Exactly - but as I posted earlier the paper makes note of the fact that "There are no current plans to use DRM+ in the UK." By not standardising DRM+ now, it counts it out for a long time to come - the addition of DAB+ support to most receivers may one day make a DAB to DAB+ transition viable in the UK, but it is much harder the longer you delay choosing it and accepting the limitations of the circumstances where DAB is a good (or at least viable) option.
alanh Posted March 1, 2013 Author Posted March 1, 2013 Malich, Yes the chips exist already, they have to get radio manufacturers to use them. When the EU push them the volume of production will increase substantially reducing the price. Goformoe, The UK is not prepared to join the rest of the EU and us in broadcasting DAB+ so what chances is there of specifying DRM+ For that matter the DBCDE is yet to mandate DRM30/DRM+ for Australia. AlanH
GoForMoe Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 Goformoe, The UK is not prepared to join the rest of the EU and us in broadcasting DAB+ so what chances is there of specifying DRM+ For that matter the DBCDE is yet to mandate DRM30/DRM+ for Australia. Exactly - so would you therefore agree with what I said earlier that there is a carriage cost issue with UK stations that is caused by their ongoing use of only DAB when DRM+ and DAB+ offer superior spectrum efficiency? You seem to be agreeing with me using phrasing that suggests you are opposing my points, which makes it difficult to know what you're trying to say.
Guest Malich Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Malich, Yes the chips exist already, they have to get radio manufacturers to use them. When the EU push them the volume of production will increase substantially reducing the price. My question was more specifically about "a single receiver chip which will decode all digital and analog transmission systems" and "single chip DAB+/DRM+/DRM30/AM/FM receiver chips". I am aware that there are plenty of DAB/DAB+/DRM30/DRM+ combined digtal chipsets that exist. But there are not yet, as far as I know, any that include both FM & AM as you stated. I'd be interested in details if you have them. Edited March 1, 2013 by Malich
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