mgaleano Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Hi all The edge 96.1 seems to be station without a real core coverage area. In theory it should cover Penrith but it doesn't do that well. The transmitter is at Wentworth falls in which causes the signal to be bad around that area. In fact I don't think it covers the very lower part of the mountains well. The Waves just fly over the top! The upper/ middle mountains are only place it is good. However once you get past Blackheath its not so good. In Sydney it really inconsistant. You go to the area in western sydney where commercial FM reception is not the best around Windsor , Richmond & Penrith and the reception of 96.1 is also quite poor (for a local station) . Around Blacktown I think is the best area in sydney to pick up 96.1 consistantly well. I'm not sure what it is like around Liverpool. In the north its good around Castle hill, drive a few Ks to Beecroft its quite poor. Even worse if you go to the studio at North Ryde. I think the position of the 96.1 transmitter results in not really having an area with super clear local clear reception area in the outer west of sydney . And its not really powerful enough to cover the suburbs in sydney as well! It doesn't really have a home in Sydney and its reflected in its format. In other words you can drive 10-20mins and the reception becomes poor (esp in a walkman)! What are others opinion ?
Moasaica Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Hi all The edge 96.1 seems to be station without a real core coverage area. In theory it should cover Penrith but it doesn't do that well. The transmitter is at Wentworth falls in which causes the signal to be bad around that area. In fact I don't think it covers the very lower part of the mountains well. The Waves just fly over the top! The upper/ middle mountains are only place it is good. However once you get past Blackheath its not so good. In Sydney it really inconsistant. You go to the area in western sydney where commercial FM reception is not the best around Windsor , Richmond & Penrith and the reception of 96.1 is also quite poor (for a local station) . Around Blacktown I think is the best area in sydney to pick up 96.1 consistantly well. I'm not sure what it is like around Liverpool. In the north its good around Castle hill, drive a few Ks to Beecroft its quite poor. Even worse if you go to the studio at North Ryde. I think the position of the 96.1 transmitter results in not really having an area with super clear local clear reception area in the outer west of sydney . And its not really powerful enough to cover the suburbs in sydney as well! It doesn't really have a home in Sydney and its reflected in its format. In other words you can drive 10-20mins and the reception becomes poor (esp in a walkman)! What are others opinion ? The Edge 96.1 hasn't given out local info within its licence area since ARN bought the station in 1997. The only local content on the station for Western Sydney are the ads & traffic reports. The solution to the problem that you addressed: Move The Edge's transmitter to WS-FM's 99.1 transmitter in Winmalee. That way, The Edge should cover most of Western Sydney very well, with a marginally better reception in other parts of Sydney. That way, people who like Hip Hop & RnB would enjoy listening to The Edge with a much better reception than where the station is currently transmitting from (Wentworth Falls). Sure, with The Edge's transmitter moving from Wentworth Falls to Winmalee, it would make The Edge's reception in middle & upper parts of the Blue Mountains go from good to bad, but I don't think many people in the Blue Mountains are into Hip Hop & RnB as much as those in Western Sydney.
billybob_chider Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 The Edge 96.1 pumps out its hip hop crap in crystal clear fm Stereo to Oatley, with perfect line of sight to the blueys. I agree that the transmitter site is TOTALLY inadequate to cover Western Sydney, Winmalee at around 1 kW would be ideal. 96.1 has always been the best Sydney commercial station reception wise in Oatley, we suffer from multi-path from Artarmon and the Central Coast. With my antenna in the right position, I can get B-Rock and JJJ/Classic FM from the Central Tablelands as well as Sydney regular 1079, which proves how good the line of sight to the west is. I liked 9inety6ix.1 when it was playing active alternative rock (in the late 90's). Back then it was a great station. Now look at it
mgaleano Posted January 14, 2006 Author Posted January 14, 2006 The Edge 96.1 pumps out its hip hop crap in crystal clear fm Stereo to Oatley, with perfect line of sight to the blueys. I agree that the transmitter site is TOTALLY inadequate to cover Western Sydney, Winmalee at around 1 kW would be ideal. 96.1 has always been the best Sydney commercial station reception wise in Oatley, we suffer from multi-path from Artarmon and the Central Coast. With my antenna in the right position, I can get B-Rock and JJJ/Classic FM from the Central Tablelands as well as Sydney regular 1079, which proves how good the line of sight to the west is. I liked 9inety6ix.1 when it was playing active alternative rock (in the late 90's). Back then it was a great station. Now look at it I wonder if the signal strength in the penrith was the reason why Penrith lost its local station. 2WS when it first went to FM I was so surprise it went to Artamon because Penrith and Campbelltown in parts the reception is poor. They fixed it a few years ago with 99.1 and 88.3 FM although but by the time they acted on this request it became not a western sydney station. Billy I think in your case it is a perfect example of what 96.1 market covers. Its all over the place. I think its why it dropped its live and local feel.
matt86 Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 I liked 9inety6ix.1 when it was playing active alternative rock (in the late 90's). Back then it was a great station. Now look at it Couldn't agree with you more there. I used to listen back then. It was fine until it bacame "the edge" On the reception front, yes far western sydney is significantly shaded from 96.1 by the lower mountains. Ever tried to get it in lapston/Emu Plains? There is barely any signal at all, stereo - forget it! Around Blacktown I think is the best area in sydney to pick up 96.1 consistantly well. I'm not sure what it is like around Liverpool. Yes Reception is good in Blacktown area, probably best around St Marys where it is stronger then the Artarmon stations but not far West enough to be shaded by the mountains. Not quite as strong in Liverpool. Move The Edge's transmitter to WS-FM's 99.1 transmitter in Winmalee. That way, The Edge should cover most of Western Sydney very well, with a marginally better reception in other parts of Sydney. Winmalee is a better site to cover Penrith and Richmond. Anything East of Blacktown, Wentworth Falls would still be better. I still say the best site for uniform coverage of Western Sydney including areas like Liverpool and Parramatta as well as Penrith would be Horsley Park. There still may be some multipath fuzz in the Emu Plains area though (which is shaded at the moment anyway).
RF Burns Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 Guys, I see what your saying, but you've all missed the mark. 96.1 FM is NOT a Sydney licence, (never has been & never will be), it is a Katoomba licence. It broadcasts into the greater Sydney area only by sheer luck. It's only meant to have coverage to a bit East of Penrith & yes a low power translator in Penrith may be helpful (similar to what they had as 2KA 783 AM) & maybe move the main transmitter further up the mountains to around Katoomba to serve the upper mountains. Also when 2WS converted to FM, their licence was changed from a West Sydney licence to a Sydney (full coverage) licence, that's why they moved to the Artarmon broadcast site & have translators in the west (less costs & easier access to infrustructure than to build a major broadcast site in the west & have lots of translators around the east). Having all the commercial FM's at the same site also means they all have the same power & direction restrictions, creating a level playing field (so to speak), so no one can complain about one of the others having better coverage than them. Having 2WS FM in the West would have meant different power levels & directionallity & would probably cause greater/different "overspill" & interference issues in adjacent licence areas (Illawarra, Gosford, Katoomba/Blue Mountains & possibly Newcastle). So if your not in the Penrith/Blue Mountains area, enjoy what you have (or don't have) with regards to 96.1 FM, you're lucky or unlucky (depending on what you like) to have it. Cheers Glenn.
mgaleano Posted January 15, 2006 Author Posted January 15, 2006 G'day Glenn Just a point I'd like mention. 2KA also had an AM transmitter on 1476 at Penrith. I don't think 96.1 covers the Penrith district well enough. Matt Guys, I see what your saying, but you've all missed the mark.96.1 FM is NOT a Sydney licence, (never has been & never will be), it is a Katoomba licence. It broadcasts into the greater Sydney area only by sheer luck. It's only meant to have coverage to a bit East of Penrith & yes a low power translator in Penrith may be helpful (similar to what they had as 2KA 783 AM) & maybe move the main transmitter further up the mountains to around Katoomba to serve the upper mountains. Also when 2WS converted to FM, their licence was changed from a West Sydney licence to a Sydney (full coverage) licence, that's why they moved to the Artarmon broadcast site & have translators in the west (less costs & easier access to infrustructure than to build a major broadcast site in the west & have lots of translators around the east). Having all the commercial FM's at the same site also means they all have the same power & direction restrictions, creating a level playing field (so to speak), so no one can complain about one of the others having better coverage than them. Having 2WS FM in the West would have meant different power levels & directionallity & would probably cause greater/different "overspill" & interference issues in adjacent licence areas (Illawarra, Gosford, Katoomba/Blue Mountains & possibly Newcastle). So if your not in the Penrith/Blue Mountains area, enjoy what you have (or don't have) with regards to 96.1 FM, you're lucky or unlucky (depending on what you like) to have it. Cheers Glenn.
matt86 Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 Guys, I see what your saying, but you've all missed the mark.96.1 FM is NOT a Sydney licence, (never has been & never will be), it is a Katoomba licence. It broadcasts into the greater Sydney area only by sheer luck. It's only meant to have coverage to a bit East of Penrith & yes a low power translator in Penrith may be helpful (similar to what they had as 2KA 783 AM) & maybe move the main transmitter further up the mountains to around Katoomba to serve the upper mountains. I think the general discussion in this forum is the coverage without reference to the actual licence area. Even if the reception is craphouse in the Penrith area, nothing is ever going change. Unfortunately its a sore point when it comes to that station content wise. Who are they trying to target with a Hip Hop RnB format? 90% of these listeners would be from outside the licence area. The format would be a good idea if the station was intended to cover Sydney (even though I dont like the type of music). Also when 2WS converted to FM, their licence was changed from a West Sydney licence to a Sydney (full coverage) licence, that's why they moved to the Artarmon broadcast site & have translators in the west (less costs & easier access to infrustructure than to build a major broadcast site in the west & have lots of translators around the east). Having all the commercial FM's at the same site also means they all have the same power & direction restrictions, creating a level playing field (so to speak), so no one can complain about one of the others having better coverage than them. If the licence area was made to be the same as the other commercial FM, what is the need of the repeaters? If the intention was to create a level playing field, all the other Sydney Wide Commercial stations should have been furnished with a repeater of their own at Winmalee and Razorback respectively. Obviously thats not possible and would be a gross waste of spectrum. I'm sure ACMA actually define a seperate area for WS then the other commercial stations wheather or not this includes Eastern parts of Sydney.
RF Burns Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 G'day Glenn Just a point I'd like mention. 2KA also had an AM transmitter on 1476 at Penrith. I don't think 96.1 covers the Penrith district well enough. Matt Hi Matt, I know, that's why I said put in a Penrith translator similar to what they had when they were an AM station. Cheers Glenn.
datvman Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 (edited) Edit: Found the LAP's for the Sydney, Katoomba and Western Sydney area (Thanks dtv_campbelltown). They are on the old ABA site. Here are links to the LAP's and licence area maps. This should give a rundown of whats broadcasts in what area Sydney LAP: http://www.aba.gov.au/newspubs/radio_TV/br...LAP_Dec1999.pdf Sydney Licence area: http://www.acma.gov.au/licplan/defmaps/doc...esc/la_542.html Stations in area: 2DAY, 2MMM, Mix, Nova, Vega, 2UE, 2GB, 2KY, 2SM, 2CH Western Sydney LAP: Refer Sydney LAP Western Sydney Licence Area: http://www.acma.gov.au/licplan/defmaps/doc...esc/la_386.html Stations in area: 2WS Katoomba LAP: http://www.aba.gov.au/newspubs/radio_TV/br...LAP_Dec1999.pdf Katoomba Licence Area: http://www.acma.gov.au/licplan/defmaps/doc...esc/la_380.html Stations in area: Edge It seems that 2WS is still in the 'Western Sydney' area but that is encapsulted into the Sydney licence area, therefore giving them the Artarmon Transmitter as well as the two repeaters. Thats how I understand it. Edited January 15, 2006 by datvman
RF Burns Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 I think the general discussion in this forum is the coverage without reference to the actual licence area. Even if the reception is craphouse in the Penrith area, nothing is ever going change. If your within the licence area & you have poor reception & if enough people complain about it, then as long as there is enough spare spectrum & the station involved wants to spend the money, there's a good chance Penrith could get a translator. If the licence area was made to be the same as the other commercial FM, what is the need of the repeaters? If the intention was to create a level playing field, all the other Sydney Wide Commercial stations should have been furnished with a repeater of their own at Winmalee and Razorback respectively. Obviously thats not possible and would be a gross waste of spectrum.I'm sure ACMA actually define a seperate area for WS then the other commercial stations wheather or not this includes Eastern parts of Sydney. Looking back at the 1999 Licence area plan the main 2WS or 2UUS FM transmitter has the same radiation paterns & power levels as the others to service the greater Sydney market, but they also have consideration under the Western Suburbs section of the Sydney LAP for translators to cover the richmond & Camden areas, I don't know why because I don't think these ares would have been covered very well when they were on 1224 AM? Cheers Glenn.
mgaleano Posted January 15, 2006 Author Posted January 15, 2006 Hi Matt,I know, that's why I said put in a Penrith translator similar to what they had when they were an AM station. Cheers Glenn. Sorry Glenn. You did. Interesting post in another news group. joel Jan 14, 9:34 am show options Newsgroups: aus.radio.broadcast From: "joel" <joelgre...@gmail.com> - Find messages by this author Date: 13 Jan 2006 14:34:52 -0800 Local: Sat, Jan 14 2006 9:34 am Subject: Re: Edge 96.1 now a rap station Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse When 2KA converted to ONE FM they were given up to 2 additional translater licences, one for Springwood and I'm not sure where the other was for. I think it was for Emu plains/Richmond area. These were never taken up and I gather by now have expired and the frequencies used elsewhere. I seem to remember that they even considered using the same 96.1 frequency for the translaters but the micro-wave feeds would not have been economically viable. Anyone know how the power increase bargaining is going with the licensing authorities for the 2LT and KISS FM mountains translators, it's seems to be going on for years now without a result. The world will have moved on to digital by the time it's all settled, at this rate
matt86 Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 I can't find the LAP's anymore on the crappy ACMA website so here are the maps. Yeah I agree there. That site is very hard to navigate. I come across something and can't ever find it again later.
RF Burns Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 I can't find the LAP's anymore on the crappy ACMA website so here are the maps. If anyone can find the page to download the LAP's, please PM me so I can add them hereSydney Licence area: http://www.acma.gov.au/licplan/defmaps/doc...esc/la_542.html Western Sydney Licence Area: http://www.acma.gov.au/licplan/defmaps/doc...esc/la_386.html Katoomba Licence Area: http://www.acma.gov.au/licplan/defmaps/doc...esc/la_380.html They're still at the old ABA site http://www.aba.gov.au/newspubs/radio_TV/br...ning/LAPs.shtml Cheers Glenn.
matt86 Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 I don't know why because I don't think these ares would have been covered very well when they were on 1224 AM?Cheers Glenn. I agree, the 101.7 service would cover these areas better than 1224 would have. Using 1224 RPH as a guide. I assume the specs stayed the same when RPH took over 1224 AM.
datvman Posted January 15, 2006 Posted January 15, 2006 How is 2RPH's coverage anyhow, I'm assuming that 2WS transmitted from Chruch Rd, the same place as 2RPH transmits now?
mgaleano Posted January 15, 2006 Author Posted January 15, 2006 I think its about the same as the old WS reception but the audio quality is poor. Its from the same location as 2WS 1224 transmitter location at Prospect. Just got an email from someone who worked for telstra on the The edge transmitter at Emu plains. Apparently there was a transmitter at Emu plains but it kept on blowing up. As a result they didn't want to spend the money on fixing it . Thus they only kept the Wentworth Falls transmitter.
mechsta Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Regarding The Edge's reception problems around the Penrith and Lower Mountains areas, an ideal solution would be to have a retransmission facility set up at Penrith under the federal government's radio and TV blackspot program. Just take the off air feed from Wentworth Falls and rebroadcast it at a very low power (10-20 watts max). You've just go to find a suitable transmission site and a clear frequency. That massive tower behind the Penrith Cop Shop would be ideal for a transmission site, although selecting a clear frequency could be somewhat harder. I'd go for 91.7MHz. As far as I know, there are no future services planned for that frequency. I don't see any need to move the present transmitter at Wentworth Falls anywhere else. It would be too costly to do such a move and would more than likely make the reception in the Upper Mountains worse.
billybob_chider Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Oh nooo. The ACMA wouldn't like a flea- powered 2ONE relay on 91.7 interfering with precious NBN and WIN 3 now would they? . Plus my itrip is on that freq so I wouldn't want it disrupted...
mgaleano Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Oh nooo. The ACMA wouldn't like a flea- powered 2ONE relay on 91.7 interfering with precious NBN and WIN 3 now would they? . Plus my itrip is on that freq so I wouldn't want it disrupted... 91.7 would be fine! Is richmond part of the lic area. Not sure if it would reach there? Sussex inlet & Kangaroo Valley use 91.7 for 2st and thats not far as the crow flys to WIN3. Being low in Penrith it should not effect NBN. They use 92.5 at Gosford anyway!
billybob_chider Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Yes I'm sure it would be fine. I'm just stating the ACMA's views.
Moasaica Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 91.7 would be fine! Is richmond part of the lic area. Not sure if it would reach there? Richmond is in The Edge's licence area. See the licence area map for The Edge here: http://www.aba.gov.au/licplan/planning/lic...maps/la_380.pdf Sussex inlet & Kangaroo Valley use 91.7 for 2st and thats not far as the crow flys to WIN3. Being low in Penrith it should not effect NBN. They use 92.5 at Gosford anyway! I think the problem with 91.7 in Penrith is that when tropo occurs, NBN3 would interfere with it. 92.5 is just outside the VHF-3 frequency so it wouldn't have much concern with it in Gosford. But the bigger problem is that the frequency availability on the FM band in the Sydney region is low, thanks to WIN3 & NBN3 not giving up their frequency to the UHF band!!!
mgaleano Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 Richmond is in The Edge's licence area.See the licence area map for The Edge here: http://www.aba.gov.au/licplan/planning/lic...maps/la_380.pdf I think the problem with 91.7 in Penrith is that when tropo occurs, NBN3 would interfere with it. 92.5 is just outside the VHF-3 frequency so it wouldn't have much concern with it in Gosford. But the bigger problem is that the frequency availability on the FM band in the Sydney region is low, thanks to WIN3 & NBN3 not giving up their frequency to the UHF band!!! maybe use 99.9 I'm not sure if that is still being used by a community station at the moment.
Moasaica Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 maybe use 99.9 I'm not sure if that is still being used by a community station at the moment. 99.9 is still used by SWR-FM in Blacktown. They got its full-time licence in 2003.
mgaleano Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 99.9 is still used by SWR-FM in Blacktown. They got its full-time licence in 2003. How about 100.7 ? I need to do some channel surfing again.
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