everyones_shadow Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Last night the i33 was briefly demonstrated and to my ears SAM made a biger diference to it than to the 93. The SAM site says extrension with SAM was 18Hz. I can belive that. It may even have been that in a blind audition I might have preferred the 33 to the 93. Often when DSP is aded to a signal the processed signal is quieter, more compressed or has its noise floor raised. This is not the case with SAM as far as I can hear. It may have been a fault in the manual voulme matching but with SAM in the volume levels seemed higher - and NOT because of aded distortion or because of the bass extension, Just for fun, go to the SAM site and click on some speakers. With SAM the Linn Kan (the original from the 70s) reaches 24Hz (all SAM exrension figures are at -3dB BTW). Ivor always claimed the Kan could reach 20Hz. 40 years later, he's been proven right. Look at the Jamo R909 -- 2 extra octaves of bass to this open bafle monster. (yes, yes I know about the cancellation issues with open bafles). Look at the uncorrected figures for the Wilson XLF and compare those to the uncorrected figures for the i93. LS3/5a 37Hz with SAM Cheers ES 3
tktran Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Hi Phil, Do you have a good grasp of what Devialet's "SAM" actually does, or how they are measuring doing it? It's not a clear to me from the marketting/advertising blurb. From the photo snaps, it looks like they're taking nearfield excursion measurements on the woofers using a Klippel-based system, to determine excursion limits of woofers. Knowing the limits, the Devialet amp's DSP, can boost the low end safely, but places dynamic equalisation to limit excursion to pre-defined targets. This will prevent woofers from getting overdriven and the scenario of woofer cones silently flapping in the wind. Are they doing any FR correction in the midrange and treble drive units? (eg. 20-20KHz correction). Or any impulse response correction? With SAM the Linn Kan (the original from the 70s) reaches 24Hz (all SAM exrension figures are at -3dB BTW). Ivor always claimed the Kan could reach 20Hz. 40 years later, he's been proven right. Again. The devil's in the details. Reaching 24Hz but at what SPL and THD? best regards, Thanh Edited July 10, 2015 by tktran
Philip Vafiadis Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Hi Phil, Do you have a good grasp of what Devialet's "SAM" actually does, or how they are measuring doing it? It's not a clear to me from the marketting/advertising blurb. From the photo snaps, it looks like they're taking nearfield excursion measurements on the woofers using a Klippel-based system, to determine excursion limits of woofers. Knowing the limits, the Devialet amp's DSP, can boost the low end safely, but places dynamic equalisation to limit excursion to pre-defined targets. This will prevent woofers from getting overdriven and the scenario of woofer cones silently flapping in the wind. Are they doing any FR correction in the midrange and treble drive units? (eg. 20-20KHz correction). Or any impulse response correction? Again. The devil's in the details. Reaching 24Hz but at what SPL and THD? best regards, Thanh I'm not sure what or how their system actually works. (Proprietary electronics and software). I do know that there is more that displacement involved. It's pretty clear from the printout of input signal vs the output, that the SAMed output tracks more closely to the input signal (music). The laser is tracking the woofer, so it is low frequency only. I think around 200Hz and down. And that the Thiele Small parameters are being electrically manipulated too. Physics is physics so displacement, SPL & frequency are of course interrelated. From the Phantom product page they are quite open with publishing bass vs spl so it is very clear that with the SAM process that as the volume increases, once the woofer begins to go non-linear the bass extension reduces. In our large showroom (10M x 10M with 2,7M ceiling) the Signature i93 and i66 had no problem filling that room at a healthy level. And ridiculously clean. My personal opinion is that SAM is beneficial to most speakers at normal volume levels in regular sized rooms. You'll still want bigger speakers for bigger rooms if you chase perfection. I'll some testing when next in the office, listening carefully to each of the speakers programmed into SAM. And in different rooms. And hope to post my findings.
Addicted to music Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 This is Maxime, One of the signal processing engineers from Devialet who visited from France to help out at VAF on the night. Interestingly the tripod rig is a laser assembly which measures the motion of each driver it is pointed towards. The gold contraption behind the chrome Devialet amplifier is the SAM Lab hardware. The processing power in the Devialet amplifier is an important part of the process. And through the laptop computer, the outputs can be seen, as well as the differences between the input signal (music), and the motion of the woofer. The little red speaker in this picture is a custom coloured VAF Signature i90, which has developed a bit of a cult following :-) IMG_8828 (1).jpg I like the idea in using a laser to measure the motion of the driver than using a mic, especially in that environment.
Upgrayed Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 I'm not sure what or how their system actually works. (Proprietary electronics and software). I do know that there is more that displacement involved. It's pretty clear from the printout of input signal vs the output, that the SAMed output tracks more closely to the input signal (music). The laser is tracking the woofer, so it is low frequency only. I think around 200Hz and down. And that the Thiele Small parameters are being electrically manipulated too. Physics is physics so displacement, SPL & frequency are of course interrelated. From the Phantom product page they are quite open with publishing bass vs spl so it is very clear that with the SAM process that as the volume increases, once the woofer begins to go non-linear the bass extension reduces. In our large showroom (10M x 10M with 2,7M ceiling) the Signature i93 and i66 had no problem filling that room at a healthy level. And ridiculously clean. My personal opinion is that SAM is beneficial to most speakers at normal volume levels in regular sized rooms. You'll still want bigger speakers for bigger rooms if you chase perfection. I'll some testing when next in the office, listening carefully to each of the speakers programmed into SAM. And in different rooms. And hope to post my findings. Fantastic to see this, was planning to visit Vaf to hear the Devialet on my next trip to Adelaide. The addition of SAM is exciting and shows how disruptive technology will change the way people purchase equipment to enjoy superior sound in their homes.
wikeeboy Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Big thanks to the guys at VAF for giving me the heads up on Devialet being in town (Melbourne). I was able to have my speakers SAMed yesterday which i'm thrilled about. The Devialet guys were fantastic and more than obliging with my many questions. Had a good listen to the twin Silver Phantom's. Very impressive. Would be more than ample for 80% of people i would say (except for the ultra audiophiles with deep pockets).. and terrific value for money let alone the convenience and WAF factor. Thanks again VAF 2
darthlaker Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Thanks to all at VAF for a wonderful session. The Devialet folks coming down to Oz for a tour and including 'lil old Adelaide speaks volumes about the brand and their passion. The SAM demo certainly assisted the bottom end. I LOVED the Phantoms. Such a fun little speaker with insane bass. An audiophile speaker it ain't (of course) but would be a great speaker for a house/open area for casual listening. Loved 'em so much I ordered a pair! 7
Benje Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 I can see a new avatar and/or identity coming - The (silver) Phantom. Austin Powers is history.
darthlaker Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) I can see a new avatar and/or identity coming - The (silver) Phantom. Austin Powers is history. Mojo is never history, Benje, Man! The groovy Phantoms will make my new Pad even MORE Shagadelic, yea! I'll have to see if I can link them to my Clapper....... Edited July 11, 2015 by darthlaker 1
Recommended Posts