bhobba Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Guys The Kelin IMHO is better IMHO than the upgraded M51 I had. Note: This was not a direct comparison - but from memory. Thanks Bill 1
GPK Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 @GPK Just wondering ........ Where is the iFi iUSB power going, I thought the Klein didn't use USB power input ..... mine is running with a USB cable with no power wire ....... ?? Gemini cable from Mac Mini to iUSB to Mercury cable to Klein DAC. I assume that what it's doing rather than supplying power is reducing noise from the Mac. Interestingly, just this afternoon I've gone Mercury > iUSB > Gemini > Audiophilleo 2 > Klein and I think it's even better. But that's with the filter switches down. Not even 24 hrs yet, so not making any conclusions as yet. 1
Gieseler Audio Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) It is definately an upgrade but obviously I'm biased. I have had a NAD M51 for several years & often use it as a reference point when evaluating my new DAC builds. It's features leave the Klein for dead, but the sound situation is reversed. Just listening to the M51 on it's own it sounds pretty good (I'm using v1.39 firmware) When doing a critical comparison between the two the Klein (AKM version) is more three dimensional with more separation between instruments & airiness. Bass is similar but the Klein Is a little tighter & cleaner. The Klein is producing more information & you just seem to hear more things happening in the recordings. The styling, features & operation of the M51 is excellent - I would kill to have all that in my DAC. The weakest area of the M51 is the basic output stage & excessive output filtering plus SMPS psu, this is normal in lots of commercial DAC's. It is in this area that I go totally overboard in the Klein, high current class A composite output stage with lots of quality cap decoupling & very light final filtering. This has a major effect on the sound, also the AK4490EQ DAC is brand new, & exceptional at decoding digital music files. Hope this info helps, regards Clay. Edited June 17, 2015 by Gieseler Audio 3
Bill125812 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Hi Clay Thank you so much for the detailed breakdown It might be worthwhile to get one and compare Cheers Edited June 17, 2015 by Bill125812 1
Gieseler Audio Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 Absolutely!, you might have to wait a few days as I'm having trouble building these fast enough to fill orders. PS just seen what speakers you have - Klein should work well with those.
Bill125812 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Thanks clay. I love the Martin Logans Is it best to just order one through your web site
Gieseler Audio Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 We have actually taken the shopping basket off (tricky with international shipping rates) so it's best just to email me via the website or just PM here with your contact/email info. I usually just email out a invoice with direct deposit info ect.
bhobba Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) It might be worthwhile to get one and compare If I remember correctly Clay has a M51 in his shop. Since you are in Brisbane it may be possible for you to pop down to Clays shop and hear it for yourself. Thanks Bill Edited June 17, 2015 by bhobba 2
bhobba Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I love the Martin Logans Nice speakers - divine midrange. Thanks Bill 1
Bill125812 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Bhobba I think I might just like to get one and try on my own system Then I'll find out over a reasonable period of time what it's like And I know in detail how the Nad sounds on my system and can compare Clays dac more easily What's the worst that can happen She who must be obeyed will shake her head once again. Shrug her shoulders and walk off , leaving me to listen to music So I suppose a Win win situation 5
Bill125812 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Yes they are Bhobba Love them to bits. The hybrid design also gives them a much better bass response Edited June 17, 2015 by Bill125812
Gieseler Audio Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) The Klein's pretty small, you may be able to slip it in under the radar! Edited June 17, 2015 by Gieseler Audio 1
Bill125812 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Your kidding Clay All wives can pick a difference in what's in the lounge room from a kilometre away 1
Celts88 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) I've got a keeper with my wife. Bought a Sub 1 a couple of months ago and when it arrived she said it was a lot smaller than she thought (wonder if I should have got a Sub 2 instead :lol:). Clay's just finished my DAC today, and can't wait for it to arrive as I've never had a DAC before (only built up my gear over the last 2 months). Currently airplay my music from Mac Mini to Apple TV, then optical into CD player (has in-built DAC), then into pre-amp, so now going straight from Mac Mini USB to Klein to pre-amp will be a big improvement Edited June 17, 2015 by Celts88 1
GPK Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Changed my mind today. Went back to the USB input and it's more detailed with better separation. I'm liking it a lot. Went back to both switches up as well. As a former owner of an NAD M51 it's a big improvement, though I do miss the HDMI inputs and remote volume control 3
Bill125812 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Hi GPK As the owner of a NAD M51 in interested that you believe the Klein is better I've ordered one from Clay today to be picked up on Tuesday I'm very interested to hear the difference Cheers
GPK Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Hi GPK As the owner of a NAD M51 in interested that you believe the Klein is better I've ordered one from Clay today to be picked up on Tuesday I'm very interested to hear the difference Cheers It'll be really interesting to hear if you come to the same conclusions as I have. We'll swap notes once you get to hear the Klein in your own system.
Bill125812 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 It'll be really interesting to hear if you come to the same conclusions as I have. We'll swap notes once you get to hear the Klein in your own system. I'll make sure I let you know after a week or so of listening Really looking forward to it
GPK Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 Just tried plugging in my Squeezebox Touch to the USB input with the EDO plug in. The Squeezebox didn't seem to recognise the DAC. Is this is a known problem or am I doing something wrong?
~Spyne~ Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 Just tried plugging in my Squeezebox Touch to the USB input with the EDO plug in. The Squeezebox didn't seem to recognise the DAC. Is this is a known problem or am I doing something wrong? You'll need to go to Settings > Advanced > Digital Input > Select Digital Input and choose "USB: Combo384" (at least I think this is what the USB input is called, from memory) The SBT will then reboot and all should work after that. I've found it a real pain in the rear trying to compare my previous Arcam irDAC to the Klein as they use different USB receiver chips and therefore I need to do this process and reboot the SBT each time I switch. 1
Gieseler Audio Posted June 20, 2015 Author Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) GPK, I think with a USB DAC & a Squeezebox touch you need some sort of third party app for the DAC to be recognised. I would think S/PDIF (coax or optical) would be a better way to go. http://www.audiostream.com/content/get-usb-dac-and-24196-digital-output-your-squeezebox-touch PS just seen spyne's post, looks like he has it sorted Edited June 20, 2015 by Gieseler Audio
GPK Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 You'll need to go to Settings > Advanced > Digital Input > Select Digital Input and choose "USB: Combo384" (at least I think this is what the USB input is called, from memory) The SBT will then reboot and all should work after that. I've found it a real pain in the rear trying to compare my previous Arcam irDAC to the Klein as they use different USB receiver chips and therefore I need to do this process and reboot the SBT each time I switch. You've got to love SNA! All sorted. Though I had to install some sort of Linux Kernel as well. Thanks! 1
Juicester Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 anyone have a report about improvements to the Klein using something like a synchro mesh or remedy reclocker?
Bill125812 Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Just picked up my Klein apRac from Clay this morning Plugged it in and am presently A B comparing against my NAD M51. The Klein hasn't been burnt in yet naturally, but first impressions are very positive Bass seems to be handled better by the Klein. Slightly tighter The MIds and upper ranges are similar to the NAD so far. Detail seems to be very good indeed Will report back as the Dac burns in a week or so. Clay is fantastic to deal with by the way Cheers 5
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