beachgrip Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Greetings. I have recently purchased a Sondek LP12 with Valhalla power supply, but have read a Lingo power supply is much better. Any thoughts out there?. The rest of my set up is Linn, LK100, Majik and Mimic, although I am a relative newcomer to the world of Vinyl.
wolster Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 G'day Eric, and welcome to SNA. You will find a few LP12 owners here along with some robust discussion on the merits of the iconic table I personally went the cheaper route and use a Hercules Mose power supply. It was a definite improvement over my previous Valhalla. I'll let others comment on the Lingo as I have not heard it. Should you be interested in the Hercules, send me a PM and I will give you the email address of the guy who makes them. You can buy direct. 1
Gordon Macfarlane Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Either the Lingo or the Mose , both are excellent though secondhand Lingo's are still pretty expensive and probably worth recapping by now.
evil c Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 The Hercules & Mose (external power supply module) are going to elevate your Linn's performance at a fraction of the cost of the Lingo so save your money and go the Hercules! I had a problem with mine and Edmund has been brilliant to deal with in resolving. This is the one to get - easy to install although get a tech to do it! Mose Hercules for Linn LP12 Acclaimed External PSU Replace Valhalla | eBay 1
Peter_F Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Yes I had the Hercules II upgrade from the Valhalla and found it to be a big step-up. Good gains for the price IMO.
Luc Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) The Hercules & Mose (external power supply module) are going to elevate your Linn's performance at a fraction of the cost of the Lingo so save your money and go the Hercules! I had a problem with mine and Edmund has been brilliant to deal with in resolving. This is the one to get - easy to install although get a tech to do it! Mose Hercules for Linn LP12 Acclaimed External PSU Replace Valhalla | eBay Did you install it and F it up @ ? I'm asking because when I get mine I was going to use Edmund's "Yes even an idiot like you can install it!" instructions I saw on his page. I have a long long history of 'oops'; oops, sorry about that I thought your car was moving, oops so the red wire isn't the live one I thought it was?Oops, I didn't realise the revolving door went bothways, oops, I thought the SD card went in that slot and it was just tight... :mellow: Edited August 14, 2014 by Luc
andyr Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Greetings. I have recently purchased a Sondek LP12 with Valhalla power supply, but have read a Lingo power supply is much better. Any thoughts out there?. The rest of my set up is Linn, LK100, Majik and Mimic, although I am a relative newcomer to the world of Vinyl. Both the Lingo and the Mose/Hercules will give you much better sound than your Valhalla ... and they give you 45rpm as well! The Lingo has gone through a number of circuit changes during its lifetime, apart from being known by Linnies as 'Lingo 1', 'Lingo 2' & 'Lingo 3'. So a 'Lingo 3' sounds better than, say, an early 'Lingo 2'. In other words, you need to be careful what you are actually buying. I have moved on from my LP12 and happen to have a very late-model Lingo for sale (as well as a couple of other items for an LP12). PM me if you are interested. Regards, Andy
evil c Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Did you install it and F it up @ ? I'm asking because when I get mine I was going to use Edmund's "Yes even an idiot like you can install it!" instructions I saw on his page. I have a long long history of 'oops'; oops, sorry about that I thought your car was moving, oops so the red wire isn't the live one I thought it was?Oops, I didn't realise the revolving door went bothways, oops, I thought the SD card went in that slot and it was just tight... :mellow: Ha ha @Luc- my clumsiness is legendary too but I was smart enough to have it fitted by a tech-head friend. Had it fitted last year and has performed flawlessly up until recently - 33 still perfect just 45 gone (no Hugh Masekela - Hope for me! ) Edmund suspects the 45 rpm crystal needs replacing and has offered to send a replacement to be fitted or I return the board to him and he'll take care of all the freight there and back. Don't think I could wait that long though! :eek:
GregWormald Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Remember that the latest power/motor upgrade for LP12s is DC based. When comparing prices, check out the various DC upgrades, including the one from Once Analog--a SN sponsor. Greg
Luc Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Ha ha @Luc- my clumsiness is legendary too but I was smart enough to have it fitted by a tech-head friend. Had it fitted last year and has performed flawlessly up until recently - 33 still perfect just 45 gone (no Hugh Masekela - Hope for me! ) Edmund suspects the 45 rpm crystal needs replacing and has offered to send a replacement to be fitted or I return the board to him and he'll take care of all the freight there and back. Don't think I could wait that long though! :eek: Haha indeed, your obviously that long lost twin my Mum bangs on about and points to my head and says: "Took the best part of that grey thing too..." Mums eh... ^_^ You wouldn't send the board back would you? @@GregWormald could you expand upon your statement. Your referring to something other than the Hercules-Moses?
GregWormald Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 @@GregWormald could you expand upon your statement. Your referring to something other than the Hercules-Moses? When I was looking to upgrade my LP12 there were a number of DC options other than the Linn one. I haven't kept track of what is available now. A Google search should give current names. I ended up purchasing a TT with Vince's DC conversion (and other upgrades) already installed. Greg
warrengday Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Both the Lingo and the Mose/Hercules will give you much better sound than your Valhalla ... and they give you 45rpm as well! The Lingo has gone through a number of circuit changes during its lifetime, apart from being known by Linnies as 'Lingo 1', 'Lingo 2' & 'Lingo 3'. So a 'Lingo 3' sounds better than, say, an early 'Lingo 2'. In other words, you need to be careful what you are actually buying. Good info. Also let me add some extra clarity. When I went round the Linn Factory a few years ago it was explained to me they don't call it Lingo 1, Lingo 2, as Linn have made several changes to the Lingo over the years. The numbers 1 2 3 refer to the box, 1 is a small box, 2 is a big same looking box, and 3 is the similar large size with a newer looking style. The 3 may sound slightly better as this case is more sturdy. The biggest change was the move to a surface mount circuit design. This happened about the same time as the Lingo 2. A few years ago I upgraded from a 1991 Lingo "1" to a 2005 Lingo "2". One of the biggest and cheapest upgrades I've ever done!!! A huge leap in timing, note clarity and stereo stage precision. I sold my Lingo 1 for £400 and bought the Lingo 2 for £600. Ultimately it is best if you can hear the options before buying. Probably all my hifi mistakes have come from buying before hearing. Edited August 14, 2014 by warrengday 1
andyr Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Good info. Also let me add some extra clarity. When I went round the Linn Factory a few years ago it was explained to me they don't call it Lingo 1, Lingo 2, as Linn have made several changes to the Lingo over the years. The numbers 1 2 3 refer to the box, 1 is a small box, 2 is a big same looking box, and 3 is the similar large size with a newer looking style. The 3 may sound slightly better as this case is more sturdy. The biggest change was the move to a surface mount circuit design. This happened about the same time as the Lingo 2. A few years ago I upgraded from a 1991 Lingo "1" to a 2005 Lingo "2". One of the biggest and cheapest upgrades I've ever done!!! A huge leap in timing, note clarity and stereo stage precision. I sold my Lingo 1 for £400 and bought the Lingo 2 for £600. Ultimately it is best if you can hear the options before buying. Probably all my hifi mistakes have come from buying before hearing. Just a couple of comments on what you wrote, Warren: It's all very well to recommend "hearing before buying" but that means you have to buy from a dealer ... and the OP's local dealer may not have any well-priced, late model Lingos available (only a new one). Yes, the change to surface-mount technology delivered a big sonic improvement. This happened just after the change to the 'Lingo 2' case - ie. the first L2 was simply an L1 in the new case. Then they started to improve the surface-mount circuit - and continued through several iterations even after they introduced the "Lingo 3" case. IE. the sonic improvement delivered by a "Lingo 3' is not simply due to a new case (according to Peter Swain). Regards, Andy
warrengday Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 It's all very well to recommend "hearing before buying" but that means you have to buy from a dealer Or hearing them around people's houses.
Number 9 Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) I'll probably get shouted down on this, with cries of "vested interest" and the like, but here goes anyway. Somebody posted a circuit diagram of the Lingo 3 on Vinyl Engine recently. The active circuitry was almost identical to the Valhalla/Hercules circuit with a couple of functions added, Overdrive at start up followed by ramp down to the play voltage. IMO, I can't see anything in the Lingo 3 circuitry that offers any major improvement. OK, the box is bigger, but when you're using mid seventies technology, that's a given. Edited August 15, 2014 by Number 9 1
andyr Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 I'll probably get shouted down on this, with cries of "vested interest" and the like, but here goes anyway. Somebody posted a circuit diagram of the Lingo 3 on Vinyl Engine recently. The active circuitry was almost identical to the Valhalla/Hercules circuit with a couple on functions added. IMO, I can't see anything in the Lingo 3 circuitry that offers any major improvement. Soooo, Steve ... how is it that the Lingo, along its life, has continued to sound better? I would suggest that the circuit diagram of a Lingo 1 is very close to that of a Lingo 3? Andy
warrengday Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 Performance isn't "almost identical". The Valhalla doesn't do 45. 1
Number 9 Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 Performance isn't "almost identical". The Valhalla doesn't do 45. The third party Hercules does.
Number 9 Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 Soooo, Steve ... how is it that the Lingo, along its life, has continued to sound better? I would suggest that the circuit diagram of a Lingo 1 is very close to that of a Lingo 3? Andy my post was based on the circuit, to re-iterate, I can't see that the Lingo 3 based on the circuit diagrams i've seen represents any technological advance over the Valhala/Hercules board,
warrengday Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) And our posts are based on the performance. Which is what the OP wants, he doesn't want a new circuit board just to look at it. Also, as you've said, you have seen a few differences. There is also component choice in that circuit. A friend has vastly upgraded some entry level Naim preamps by mostly changing the components (foil resistors, smaller transistors, better pot, steader power supply). Plus surface-mount facilitates a much shorter signal path. Then there is circuit geometry which affects performance too. So there are many influencing factors. Edited August 15, 2014 by warrengday 1
Number 9 Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) And our posts are based on the performance. Which is what the OP wants, he doesn't want a new circuit board just to look at it. Also, as you've said, you have seen a few differences. There is also component choice in that circuit. A friend has vastly upgraded some entry level Naim preamps by mostly changing the components (foil resistors, smaller transistors, better pot, steader power supply). Plus surface-mount facilitates a much shorter signal path. Then there is circuit geometry which affects performance too. So there are many influencing factors. Warren, I agree with most of the above. I've been designing equipment and PCBs since I was 15. In starting any new design the most important decision and one of the most time consuming is woking out what the efficient and appropiate technologies are that will give you the simplest, most cost efficient solution that achieve the target goal. When the first Valhalla boards appeared on the market they were about ten years behind what would been considered current best practice in the day.A simple crystal oscillator feeding a TTL deivider chain followed by analogue filtering to shape the signal in to a rough "sine" wave then feeding that into an A-B Quasi-Comp Power stage. Rip the lid of any current cheap Chinese inverter and you'll find prettty much the same thing. You end up with a distorted waveform, in a soup of non-linear harmonics, with jitter and temperature drift. But that was ok then because there wasn't much to campare it to. Fast forward to today. we have cheap easily implimented single chip solutions that generate precise low distortion waveforms right out of the box, throw a couple of passive around it and your done. 50ppm crystals are 50 cents a pop, but for 12 bucks you can get a 2.5ppm with it's own temperature controlled oven built in. Digital Synthesis Chips that only require only a few lines of code. Lots of great solutions available most which for whatever reason Linn seem to have ignored. And yes, there have been some improvement over the years, but from schematics i've seen,the latest Lingo uses similar topology to the Vahalla, IMO, for these bucks they could do alot better.The Falcon / Roadrunner offering blows the doors off the Lingo at less than half the price, pity they didn't think it through and add international voltage output, but they're only Americans, so you have to cut them some slack. I hope this clarifies my position in all of this. Edited August 17, 2014 by Number 9 4
Tasebass Posted August 17, 2014 Posted August 17, 2014 And yes, there have been some improvement over the years, but from schematics i've seen,the latest Lingo uses similar topology to the Vahalla, IMO, for these bucks they do alot better.The Falcon / Roadrunner offering blows the doors off the Lingo at less than half the price, pity they didn't think it through and add international voltage output, but they're only Americans, so you have to cut them some slack. Ihope this clarifies my position in all of this. Steve. What are your thoughts on Naim's Armageddon being basically an Isolation Transformer. ATBTase.
Number 9 Posted August 18, 2014 Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Steve. What are your thoughts on Naim's Armageddon being basically an Isolation Transformer. ATBTase. Sorry for taking so long to reply, but I haven't had any interest in the 'Geddon so i had to have a look around the interweb tubes for a schematic. I can't see how you could descibe it as being anything other than a isolation Transformer and not a very good one at that. it will block DC but will pass a lot of the high frequency hash straight through to lesser or greater degrees depending on the characteristics of the particular transformer used, in this respect you'd be way better off with a standard iron core transformer than a toroid as the iron will pass less HF. I've Attached a schematic of really nice filter I did a PCB for a crowd in the Uk a couple of years back. CMR inductors are EPCOS B82725J available thru Element 14. Steve. Edited August 18, 2014 by Number 9 2
Tasebass Posted August 18, 2014 Posted August 18, 2014 Thanks Steve. Naim have used a few tranny variants over the years to my knowledge..........got any of them filters hanging around??!!! ATBTase.
andyr Posted August 18, 2014 Posted August 18, 2014 Thanks Steve. Naim have used a few tranny variants over the years to my knowledge..........got any of them filters hanging around??!!! ATBTase. But I think you'll find they're all toroids, Tase. Andy
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