DAMO 1147 Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Ok - So let’s not get hysterical on this topic – please, no in-fighting (light hearted humour ok of course) . I will be running both eventually. Background I’ve been mulling this over given my limited audio spend and audio goal setting. Speakers will be Zu Souls or similar (if I find them SQ worth the increase spend over my current Omens). I’m slowly upgrading my digital sources and basically remain a cd-man. I will have streaming and DAC for wife & two boys. I’ll either be on a good cd player which I can use the DAC as well. Or use current CA 650 as a source to a decent DAC + streaming. I’ve been following lot’s of digital threads on SNA, to sus out the likely contenders. However when I catch up with my good mate and SNA champ @@adamg and bother his lovely wife Pula – often!! We generally smash out some lovely Vinyl on his modded Tenchnics 1500. I watch the effort he has to go to cleaning and keeping his Vinyl which for me looks like a real hassle. I can’t be hatched looking after all those LP, the price of lp’s OMG - & worst of all getting up to swap sides –really puts me off it, so it will never be my main source until I retire in 25 years or so. But then – we spin a few tunes and by golly there is something too those nasty black disks that makes it worth the hassle. Nick Cave – Push the Sky away – intense, airy, emotional – MMM nice. So I do see a TT in my future with limited collection - to spin some of my favourite albums. That’s if I can get them on Vinyl??– anyhow that’s off track. A VPI classic 1 went for 2500 on SNA – that deck - looks awesome & right up my alley- possible overkill - I’ll be patient. You can throw in a decent cart to 1K = 3.5K So what spend on digital to meet the projected SQ level of that rig? A SH – Luxman D-05? Thanks @@Phantom, a new Aqua Acoustic La Voce with 2 PCM chips DAC is going -$3600 + import and GST. Will this hit the mark or No it I need to aim higher on the digital front? I don’t want to be disappointed going back to digital from my Vinyl rig. It does not have to be exactly = but right in the same ball park so to speak. Thanks Damo . Edited August 4, 2014 by DAMO 1147
Willco Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Hi BIG BOY--hows it hang'n Well you did ask for "opinions" no?-- firstly you do not need to spend double on Digital to "go" Vinyl--synergy/balance of the two mediums and correct choice of components is paramount. Agree take your time--listen to as much as you can--I note your mention of a VPI for $2500--frankly a s/h well cared for LP12/Ittok/Denon103 or Grace F9E would be my choice over the VPI. Re the Lux-- I heard a DA-06 last week -- its fine--but tad overpriced for your "balance" per se of comparable TT's-- maybe a saving on that purchase of choice towards ancillary uprades in your chain/cables/support/isolation/etc Good luck with the quest Willco
Krispy Audio Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 I don't think any amount of spend will get you there. There'll always be differences (not better/worse, just different) so I think you need to demo the digital component in isolation and ask yourself if it's giving you what you want from a digital source. 4
analog brother Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 try a hegel dac with your current cd player if it has a digital out. nicely detailed natural sound with no digital harshness. about $3.5k for the hd-25. includes 2 coax + usb inputs. 1
djb Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Sorry but I dispute your base assumption/premise ="if I spend double I will equal vinyl" I do NOT think digital can equal vinyl. At any doubled or tripled price point vinyl currently provides better sound. The sounds of digital and vinyl are different. I do not exclude a development in the future that may provide digital that provides better SQ. WHEN. that happens I will invest in that digital solution. My ears tell me this I am not attacking digital users here nor do I intend to "engage" with opponents
lebowski Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Djb is wrong [emoji4] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3
Guest kab Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 No amount of money will make digital "sound" like analog. Digital is digital....Analog is analog. Pick which one suits your ears and needs and enjoy either or both. cheers.
surprisetech Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Just be patient. Based on recent projects, Silicon Chip should be publishing a Vinyl Simulator soon that goes between your DAC and your amplifier. Will save you a fortune. 1
davewantsmoore Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Phase 1 - Capture vinyl playback with an AD converter... then playback said capture using a DA converter Phase 2 ..... ?! Phase 3 - Profit 1
DAMO 1147 Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Ok to all those that are saying it cant - i'll say one thing but i dont really want to debate that of course you can have a right of reply but that is not the point. You cant get digital to sound as good as a RP1 or project debut carbon - ever no matter what the spend? I'd be suprised if that was the case! is that the case? An Aurender 20 not as good as an RP1? So if it can be done - what's the spend? Edited August 4, 2014 by DAMO 1147
DAMO 1147 Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 Hi BIG BOY--hows it hang'n Well you did ask for "opinions" no?-- firstly you do not need to spend double on Digital to "go" Vinyl--synergy/balance of the two mediums and correct choice of components is paramount. Agree take your time--listen to as much as you can--I note your mention of a VPI for $2500--frankly a s/h well cared for LP12/Ittok/Denon103 or Grace F9E would be my choice over the VPI. Re the Lux-- I heard a DA-06 last week -- its fine--but tad overpriced for your "balance" per se of comparable TT's-- maybe a saving on that purchase of choice towards ancillary uprades in your chain/cables/support/isolation/etc Good luck with the quest Willco Thanks old man and the sea but No on a LP 12 - happy for other suggestions - i just dont like the look of them. prefer a simplex or other.
Krispy Audio Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Yeah but you said VPI Classic 1 and a $1k cartridge, which would be way ahead of a Rega RP1 (imo). For a basic sub $1k vinyl rig, then I'd agree with Anabro on the price point, possibly even less. Edited August 4, 2014 by Krispy Audio
DAMO 1147 Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 Yeah but you said VPI Classic 1 and a $1k cartridge, which would be way ahead of a Rega RP1 (imo). For a basic sub $1k vinyl rig, then I'd agree with Anabro on the price point, possibly even less. Yes but it shows with a spend it can = or be in the same ball park as Vinyl which is what i'm asking. So can that be extrapolated (not necesarily linear) to = a better TT like a VPI classic and 1K cart? Do i have to spend 20K, 10K 5K on digital to get to that level? If not at what point can digital no longer compete on SQ with a Vinyl rig @ 3.5K is a fairly low spend to be knocking digital out of the game?
DAMO 1147 Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 Sorry but I dispute your base assumption/premise ="if I spend double I will equal vinyl" I do NOT think digital can equal vinyl. At any doubled or tripled price point vinyl currently provides better sound. The sounds of digital and vinyl are different. I do not exclude a development in the future that may provide digital that provides better SQ. WHEN. that happens I will invest in that digital solution. My ears tell me this I am not attacking digital users here nor do I intend to "engage" with opponents This is not an assumption – just a starting point - i asked 'do I need to' maybe i need to spend 4 times - i don’t know but I would like to get a feel for that in general. Moving towards both systems.
ophool Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 I'll throw my hat in the ring here with a suggestion that interests me greatly http://www.gspaudio.co.uk/majestic-dac.htm , unfortunately not yet available on the GSP loan scheme out here. It may be that I am a def ole git, but I do have a rather nice analogue rig and I have been fairly happy with my DIY NOS DAC for a good while but judging from the feedback of quite a few vinyl fans on the GSP forum this DAC is rather nice sounding and I may have to give it a try. Most of these guys do not have uber expensive vinyl rigs but obviously do use GSP Phono stages. Most of their gear would be in the class of the vinyl rig you are looking at. I was pretty happy with my ultra hot rodded Rega until I got opportunity to move up the food chain a little. 1
Krispy Audio Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Ah I see where you're coming from. I think a vinyl rig gets "serious" at around the $3k rrp mark. Below that, there's lots which are decent but also lots of simply adequate stuff around which is easily bested (imo) by a modest digital rig. But when you hit a $3k rig and go up from there, especially if you're talking used, then yes I think 4x will be a good starting point. Keep in mind we're not including a phono stage in the equation so this may take it down to 2x or even less.
davewantsmoore Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 You cant get digital to sound as good as a RP1 or project debut carbon - ever no matter what the spend? I'd be suprised if that was the case! The problem with this direction is the term 'good'. There are numerous reasons why the playback of an LP and a CD sound different. 1
Guest Muon Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Just be patient. Based on recent projects, Silicon Chip should be publishing a Vinyl Simulator soon that goes between your DAC and your amplifier. Will save you a fortune. Yeah, it simulates everything we folk with TT's go to lengths to avoid/do away with
DAMO 1147 Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 The problem with this direction is the term 'good'. There are numerous reasons why the playback of an LP and a CD sound different. = too
DAMO 1147 Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 Ah I see where you're coming from. I think a vinyl rig gets "serious" at around the $3k rrp mark. Below that, there's lots which are decent but also lots of simply adequate stuff around which is easily bested (imo) by a modest digital rig. But when you hit a $3k rig and go up from there, especially if you're talking used, then yes I think 4x will be a good starting point. Keep in mind we're not including a phono stage in the equation so this may take it down to 2x or even less. Thanks
DAMO 1147 Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 Just be patient. Based on recent projects, Silicon Chip should be publishing a Vinyl Simulator soon that goes between your DAC and your amplifier. Will save you a fortune. i have no idea if your joking or what this is or may be nice i'm new to the dark side.
surprisetech Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 i have no idea if your joking or what this is or may be nice i'm new to the dark side. Yes, joking. Context: This month Silicon Chip published a project; The "Nirvana" Valve sound simulator, so that the Solid-state crowd can "see what all the fuss is about" WRT Tube amplifiers without having to actually invest in one. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/68947-another-pearl-from-silicon-chip/
djb Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) @@DAMO 1147 Not fair! You've altered the equation see Op ^^^ This is a quite different example and proposition to your OP. VVV "Ok to all those that are saying it cant - i'll say one thing but i dont really want to debate that of course you can have a right of reply but that is not the point. A You cant get digital to sound as good as a RP1 or project debut carbon - ever no matter what the spend? I'd be suprised if that was the case! is that the case? An Aurender 20 not as good as an RP1? So if it can be done - what's the spend?" I would almost certainly prefer the sound provided by a digital file (FLAC!) delivered through say $3k worth of digital componentry than I would through the entry level tts you mention. How far up the TT ladder this would remain tbe case would be a fun exercise But as lots of us have said they are different delivery systems Without the performers in your listening space it's all smoke and mirrors Edited August 4, 2014 by djb 1
DAMO 1147 Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 @@DAMO 1147 Not fair! You've altered the equation see Op ^^^ This is a quite different example and proposition to your OP. VVV "Ok to all those that are saying it cant - i'll say one thing but i dont really want to debate that of course you can have a right of reply but that is not the point. A You cant get digital to sound as good as a RP1 or project debut carbon - ever no matter what the spend? I'd be suprised if that was the case! is that the case? An Aurender 20 not as good as an RP1? So if it can be done - what's the spend?" I would almost certainly prefer the sound provided by a digital file (FLAC!) delivered through say $3k worth of digital componentry than I would through the entry level tts you mention. How far up the TT ladder this would remain tbe case would be a fun exercise But as lots of us have said they are different delivery systems Without the performers in your listening space it's all smoke and mirrors So extroplate out 3k digi to best a 1k or under tt - what spend on digital to get to the SQ of a 3.5K vinyl rig, IYO?
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