zenikoy Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Loving a bargain, fixing stuff and DIY are strong personality traits of mine. So I've taken to searching out old records and bringing them back to life like a duck to water. There are many methods to use and choose, depending on the condition of the vinyl, so choosing what to do is part of the fun. Whether it takes a simply brushing with the trusty carbon fibre & velvet, wet washing or going "nuclear" with the wood glue. After some good results, I'd thought I'd share the results of cleaning a "new" second hand record today. I originally planned to do a wet clean and then woodglue, but the wet clean gave such great results I'd thought I'd share, before continuing with the wood glue to see if there is further improvement. The test bunny...... an original Australian pressing of Spirit's 1968 debut (not even listed on Discogs) , a bit of surface scratching, but worth a shot at restoring for $3 So I set to it with my trusty DIY wet cleaning kit...... Result was good, so I thought I would post sample audio files now, and then get on with the wood glue to see if I can lift the last of the pops (even though I'm almost happy to leave as is). Before: Spirit - Fresh Garbage - Before Wash MP3 Spirit - Fresh Garbage - Before Wash FLAC After the wet washing: Spirit - Fresh Garbage - After Wash MP3 Spirit - Fresh Garbage - Before Wash FLAC 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur63 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Good job enikoy! A wet cleaning certainly improved I use an Okki Nokki RCM with L'Art du Son cleaning fluid. Any second hand records I buy are usually graded excellent + but the odd one has stubborn clicks and pops that can't be removed by the Okki Nokki. Also have used Record Revirginizer with mixed results, sometimes there's only so much that can be done to remove the clicks & pops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackeb Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Where in Perth did you find Spirit for $3??? I've been looking for a copy for ages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenikoy Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 Where in Perth did you find Spirit for $3??? I've been looking for a copy for ages... DaDa's on Thursday. i thought it was a bit scratched up, seems it was fairly superficial though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolster Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Excellent work. Thanks for sharing the files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackeb Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 DaDa's on Thursday. i thought it was a bit scratched up, seems it was fairly superficial though. I always have a quick look at the second hand there, but seems he prices them so well that all the good stuff fly's out the door in a flash. I asked Rob some months ago if he was getting the Robin Trower re-issues in at all and he promptly told me that he had the first six albums on the second hand shelf for about a day before the went. Seems like I'm just a tad too late!. Anyway back on topic, I got one of these ultrasonic cleaner kits from Altronics: http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k6021-high-power-ultrasonic-cleaner-kit/ Which I was able to successfully use to clean one of my Wishbone Ash albums quite well, until I let the smoke out of one of the MOSFETs. Bugger. When Silicon Chip say use it sparingly on burst mode, they mean it! I'm considering rehousing in an alloy case and mounting the MOSFETs on that for heat sinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenikoy Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Part 2 of the DIY record cleaning experience. Woodglue! Normally I wouldn't have bothered continuing with this as I was happy with wet wash results, but thought I might lift a few more pops. Here is the woodglue set: It's winter, so the glue took a bit longer to dry even with fan & sunshine assist, but peeled off nicely. Listening through, I can hear only the slightest drop in surface noise. Comparing the wet wash vs wood glue files with Audacity, it appears a few pops have gone, but three have definitely appeared at 1min20, 1min40 & 2min21. Not bad but shows that some residual glue may stay behind using this technique (these may not re-appear on next play though). I believe that the pre-existing pops are plain old physical damage on a $3, 46 year old record. Here are the wood glue files (note I use a cheap $15 Ebay analogue to digital USB device): Spirit - Fresh Garbage - After Wood Glue MP3 Spirit - Fresh Garbage - After Wood Glue FLAC In hindsight, I think that using the wood glue on the dirty vinyl would have got this result in one go, more or less exactly the same as the wet cleaning method. So I reckon wet cleaing is the winner here as it is much quicker process start to finish (actually effort time is about the same though). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenikoy Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 I always have a quick look at the second hand there, but seems he prices them so well that all the good stuff fly's out the door in a flash. I asked Rob some months ago if he was getting the Robin Trower re-issues in at all and he promptly told me that he had the first six albums on the second hand shelf for about a day before the went. Seems like I'm just a tad too late!. Anyway back on topic, I got one of these ultrasonic cleaner kits from Altronics: http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k6021-high-power-ultrasonic-cleaner-kit/ Which I was able to successfully use to clean one of my Wishbone Ash albums quite well, until I let the smoke out of one of the MOSFETs. Bugger. When Silicon Chip say use it sparingly on burst mode, they mean it! I'm considering rehousing in an alloy case and mounting the MOSFETs on that for heat sinking. Robin Trowers "For Earth Below" was sitting in there for a while, was a very very good UK pressing for $15. The ultrasonic cleaner looks like the way of the future, but a bit pricey at $150 per record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackeb Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Robin Trowers "For Earth Below" was sitting in there for a while, was a very very good UK pressing for $15. The ultrasonic cleaner looks like the way of the future, but a bit pricey at $150 per record Got that one. I think I'll redesign, and come up with a better system. The stock SC cleaner doesn't have a heatsink on the mosfets and they are mounted really close to the HV transformer so as I said, I'll probably put them in an alloy case, maybe with fan too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Anyway back on topic, I got one of these ultrasonic cleaner kits from Altronics: http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k6021-high-power-ultrasonic-cleaner-kit/ I suggest you need to read this thread on DIYAudio: www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/218276-my-version-ultrasonic-record-cleaner.html Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackeb Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Seen that one Andy, mine's a little more basic - only one LP at a time for now. Still looking for an affordable container made from metal for better transmission of the ultrasonic waves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumonKabir Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I always have a quick look at the second hand there, but seems he prices them so well that all the good stuff fly's out the door in a flash. I asked Rob some months ago if he was getting the Robin Trower re-issues in at all and he promptly told me that he had the first six albums on the second hand shelf for about a day before the went. Seems like I'm just a tad too late!. Anyway back on topic, I got one of these ultrasonic cleaner kits from Altronics: http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k6021-high-power-ultrasonic-cleaner-kit/ Which I was able to successfully use to clean one of my Wishbone Ash albums quite well, until I let the smoke out of one of the MOSFETs. Bugger. When Silicon Chip say use it sparingly on burst mode, they mean it! I'm considering rehousing in an alloy case and mounting the MOSFETs on that for heat sinking. I am considering this unit. Compare to wet cleaning how do you rate ultrasonic cleaner kit? Is there any instruction how to use it for records? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackeb Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 No specifics for records. I'd rate OK, lots of experimenting with cleaner ratios and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masliko Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Loving a bargain, fixing stuff and DIY are strong personality traits of mine. So I've taken to searching out old records and bringing them back to life like a duck to water. There are many methods to use and choose, depending on the condition of the vinyl, so choosing what to do is part of the fun. Whether it takes a simply brushing with the trusty carbon fibre & velvet, wet washing or going "nuclear" with the wood glue. After some good results, I'd thought I'd share the results of cleaning a "new" second hand record today. I originally planned to do a wet clean and then woodglue, but the wet clean gave such great results I'd thought I'd share, before continuing with the wood glue to see if there is further improvement. The test bunny...... an original Australian pressing of Spirit's 1968 debut (not even listed on Discogs) , a bit of surface scratching, but worth a shot at restoring for $3 So I set to it with my trusty DIY wet cleaning kit...... Result was good, so I thought I would post sample audio files now, and then get on with the wood glue to see if I can lift the last of the pops (even though I'm almost happy to leave as is). Before: Spirit - Fresh Garbage - Before Wash MP3 Spirit - Fresh Garbage - Before Wash FLAC After the wet washing: Spirit - Fresh Garbage - After Wash MP3 Spirit - Fresh Garbage - Before Wash FLAC Hi mate,I've got few questions for you -what ratio's do you use,with iso and distilled water?and where did you get that big bottle of iso and how much was it? Edited August 3, 2014 by masliko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 @@masliko Sam if your in Adelaide then you can get truly 'big' bottles of the stuff here>>> Click 5 litres for $27.50 which is a really good price or if your planning a huge clean you can get 20 litres for $89.95, I wont mention the 44 gallon drum of the stuffs price 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masliko Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 @@masliko Sam if your in Adelaide then you can get truly 'big' bottles of the stuff here>>> Click 5 litres for $27.50 which is a really good price or if your planning a huge clean you can get 20 litres for $89.95, I wont mention the 44 gallon drum of the stuffs price Thanks mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betocool Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 @@masliko A sponge? Am I seeing right? I thought they'd scratch the surface. I do clean mine with the soft cloth and the iso-water-soap mix with varying results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masliko Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) I only use the iso treatment as a light clean,when i play my LP's. For me,this treatment has never gotten out deep groove dust(pops & clicks) etc. I personally don't use sponges but only because the soft cloth method has worked well-again just for surface problems.I dont see a problem with using sponges.Records are more hardy than people think IMO. I will use revirginizer for that(when i can afford some).Most of my problems are deep groove issues. Edited August 4, 2014 by masliko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenikoy Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) So I set to it with my trusty DIY wet cleaning kit...... The contents of my wet cleaning kit are: Distilled water - 4l from Coles/Bunnings @$3-4 Isopropyl Alcohol - 2l from Altronics Perth @$20 Finish Rinse Aid - cheap surfactant http://www.rsc.org/learn-chemistry/resources/chemistry-in-your-cupboard/finish/13 Paint Pads - Shur Line, soft fine bristles over soft foam layer, from Bunnings @$3-4 Lazy Susan - Ikea Ribbed plastic shelf liner - cut to fit & sit on lazy susan - Bunnings 500ml Spray bottles - 1x cleaning solution & 1x distilled water for rinse - Bunnings Microfibre towels - Bunnings hey! Cleaning Fluid Mix - roughly 20-30% isopropyl, 70-80% distilled water, one or two drops of Rinse Aid in 500ml Method: - record sits on shelf liner on lazy susan - spray cleaning fluid on vinyl, while turning. - lightly hold paint pad on grooved section while turning both directions 3 or 4 times - repeat for other side - hold vertically record by edge over a sink and use blast/squirt the distilled water in sprayer2 at grooved section to remove cleaning fluid. - get towel/s and pat down any water on the label (try to avoid getting it there) - wipe dry the record by holding towel inside hands, hold record within towel and rotating around until mostly dry. Flip disc and repeat. (see second video at 3.30, for technique) - stand disc upright to air-dry (lean against wall at angle or get a rack) Since doing the last batch I have returned to using a cotton hand/bath towel as it seems to absorb more water, leaving less surface noise. Any cotton fibres seem tcome away easily with first carbon brush clean. The method is basically a trial and error mix of these two youtube videos: Without using the vacuum to clean. and the towel wiping here at around 3m30s. Not so sure about the rest of his technique. Edited August 4, 2014 by enikoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I am considering this unit. Compare to wet cleaning how do you rate ultrasonic cleaner kit? Is there any instruction how to use it for records? I would personally not use that Altronics unit for cleaning LPs. However, having owned a wet/vac RCM for 25 years, ultrasonic RCMs are the way of the future, IMO. Read the DIYAudio thread I linked to in post #10 - some reasonably-priced retail units have come out of that, if you're not into DIY. And there are a couple of very good - but very high-priced - big-name ultrasonic RCMs on the market. Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackeb Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Care to elaborate as to why not use the SC kit? Apart from cooking MOSFETs ;-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zrx1200 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I am going to give uvex lens cleaning solution 1009 ,a try on a couple of old records(out of the misuses) collection and see how that goes Going by the m.s.d.s it contains 20% isopropyl less than 5% surfactant and balance demineralized water comes in a nice 500mil spray bottle and shouldn't hurt vinyl as its designed for plastic safety glasses and leaves very little residue as you can see through it.. I wonder if there is to much surfactant though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Care to elaborate as to why not use the SC kit? Apart from cooking MOSFETs ;-)) Sure, mackeb. I've spent a lot of time following this 74-page DIYAudio thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/218276-my-version-ultrasonic-record-cleaner.html ... and they're using ultrasonic kits which don't blow MOSFETs. The earlier guys bought 40KHz units but now we're seeing 60 & 80KHz transducers becoming available at a 'reasonable' price. Of course, if you've got the ready ... you can buy some commercial systems (is it "Systeme-Desk"?), but some of the ultrasonic units the DIYAudio guys have put together are pretty sensational - for far less money. Regards, Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackeb Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 The big trouble with the SC kit is no heat sinks, no space on the board to mount one so need to remote mount the MOSFETs etc. It does use a 40kHZ transducer although it sweeps from about 12kHZ to 40 in the burst mode - the one I was using to fry semi conductors. I really like the commercial unit that dries the record as well - ready for play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) I really like the commercial unit that dries the record as well - ready for play! Absolutely, mackeb - that's the "real deal" as far as I am concerned. But: it's costly, it (I believe) only uses 40KHz transducers, and I'm not sure it has a "filter" cycle - to remove all the crud from the water? Regards, Andy Edited August 6, 2014 by andyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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