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Set and Forget? Graham, SME, Kuzma


Guest The Fresh Prince

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Guest The Fresh Prince

Hi,

I have totally splurged out on an SME 20/12 table.

I'm reviewing my arm options and am considering the Phantom 2 Supreme 12 inch, SME V12 or, the Kuzma 4 Point.

I already have an SME V and appreciate the quality of the engineering and finish. I have no experience with Graham or Kuzma. My impression, as an aside, is that Graham don't seem entirely enamoured by 12 inch and I don't see many people pushing the 12 inch version of their arm- any comments?

I am not looking for opinions on the sound of the arms, but more an opinion on which is more user friendly.

I don't like fiddling, but do want to set it up correctly and, for it to stay that way.

Reliability, consistency between consecutive products (ie manufacturing tolerance being tight between 2 products of the same type), and customer service are also important.

I'm keen on trying one of the middle range Lyra carts with this set up. I won't be changing carts frequently.

Many thanks.

Ted

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The 4 point is built like a Panzer tank. I've used a Kuzma Stogi Reference for years and it's needed no adjustment at all, A 4 Point has the same engineering quality. If you're looking for a 12 inch arm to reduce inner groove distortion have a listen to a Thales Simplicity, at a similar price point, a much smaller footprint to the 4 point and I preferred it over the 4 point. No experience with Graham arms so no opinion.

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I, like you have an SME-V (Lyra Kleos & previously Helikon) and can say that if you are not swapping out cartridges there would be no need to correct the settings on just about any arm. The SME quality is well known and their service department legendary (much like Quad) in that any arm can be serviced. Downside is that it is in UK. Kuzma 4Point gets great reviews and comments on build quality and Warrick is in Vic.

@ "Stump" has a Graham 2.2 and he might be able to give opinion on quality etc. Pretty good I think

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I, like you have an SME-V (Lyra Kleos & previously Helikon) and can say that if you are not swapping out cartridges there would be no need to correct the settings on just about any arm. The SME quality is well known and their service department legendary (much like Quad) in that any arm can be serviced. Downside is that it is in UK. Kuzma 4Point gets great reviews and comments on build quality and Warrick is in Vic.

@ "Stump" has a Graham 2.2 and he might be able to give opinion on quality etc. Pretty good I think

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you look you'll see that Warwick is now an SME agent.

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Guest The Fresh Prince

Yes. I am aware Warwick is the distributor. I have purchased my table from him.

I must admit, I am swayed towards the SME. Is the gold plated version too bling?!

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Guest The Fresh Prince

If it were me, I would be buying the SME 12 inch arm.  After all it is specifically made for the SME 20/12 table.

 

Warwick is now the importer of SME so give him call

 

 

If you look you'll see that Warwick is now an SME agent.

 

 

I saw that in the previous post - cant be a bad thing

 

 

Yes. I am aware Warwick is the distributor. I have purchased my table from him.

I must admit, I am swayed towards the SME. Is the gold plated version too bling?!

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Guest The Fresh Prince

what about one of the new triplanar arms, they are supposed to be superb

Looks very nice. Like a laboratory instrument. Interesting

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Yes. I am aware Warwick is the distributor. I have purchased my table from him.

I must admit, I am swayed towards the SME. Is the gold plated version too bling?!

 

Not at all, its unfortunate that SME don't produce a polished Titanium arm so you could stand your pushie next to it!

That said, the whole "Darth Vader"/" Stealth" look of the black beast (TT&Arm combo) draws you in like a black hole  

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You have to be a bit carefeul with non SME arms on the Model 20 and 30 that the rear of the counterweight or anything hanging off the back of the tonearm doesn't foul the suspension bands of the tower. I know the 20/12 is larger than my 20/2 but space is still tight at the back of the arm. An arm might come with an SME fitting but that's no guarantee it will fit.

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Guest The Fresh Prince

You have to be a bit carefeul with non SME arms on the Model 20 and 30 that the rear of the counterweight or anything hanging off the back of the tonearm doesn't foul the suspension bands of the tower. I know the 20/12 is larger than my 20/2 but space is still tight at the back of the arm. An arm might come with an SME fitting but that's no guarantee it will fit.

Excellent advice. Thanks

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Excellent advice. Thanks

 

Hi Ted.

may be one of my Univector 12" inches if you consider the Graham . i can made one Univector arm to suit the SME table.

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/64609-the-univector-tonearm/

we can do something's with the watch .

 

cheers

Duc

Edited by lovetube
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What do you think?

 

sme-v-gold-120824_006-950x594.jpg

 

 

 

Do ya want 'bling' ... or SQ? ;)

 

There's always a cost-benefit trade-off ... why don't you ask Duc what his 12" Univector costs.  (I suspect considerably less than the 12" SME V.)

 

'@@cheekyboy' uses a 12" Univector in preference to his SME arm, on his SME-20.  However, I'm not sure which SME arm he has - Keith, perhaps you can chime in?

 

 

Regards,

 

Andy

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Do ya want 'bling' ... or SQ? ;)

 

There's always a cost-benefit trade-off ... why don't you ask Duc what his 12" Univector costs.  (I suspect considerably less than the 12" SME V.)

 

'@@cheekyboy' uses a 12" Univector in preference to his SME arm, on his SME-20.  However, I'm not sure which SME arm he has - Keith, perhaps you can chime in?

 

 

Regards,

 

Andy

Keith uses a 12 inch Univector as well as a SME V arm. The V arm is mounted in the proper cut out while the Univector is in a separate pod to the rear. A 12 inch arm of any description wouldn't fit on a 20/2 turntable if attached to the plinth.

 

On Duc's arm that large grub screw towards the lower rear of the counterweight protrudes quite a bit from looking at the photos, it would be interesting to see if that would foul on the rubber bands if mounted in the correct place on a 20/12. A mate lent me half a dozen various tonearms to try on my 20/2 just out of curiosity including a Dynavector 505 and an old AT arm but nothing would fit. A 9 inch Ortofon AS212s fits with about 2 mm clearance.

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Was about to post when Andyr beat me to it. ;)

keith has the Univector on a pillar and the SME factory fitted

I Would give it to the Univector but the carts are quite different so its a complex SQ call.

To complicate thee issue delightfullyvAndyr has, I think, a 9" Graham for sale.

The SME is a fantastic TT and all 3 arms excel

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I'm following this thread with great interest.

A big SME is on my shoping list for next year, and I'd also like a tonearm/cart combination that I can set and forget, so I'll be very interested in what you decide on!

Good luck with your search

Cheers

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Keith uses a 12 inch Univector as well as a SME V arm. The V arm is mounted in the proper cut out while the Univector is in a separate pod to the rear. A 12 inch arm of any description wouldn't fit on a 20/2 turntable if attached to the plinth.

 

On Duc's arm that large grub screw towards the lower rear of the counterweight protrudes quite a bit from looking at the photos, it would be interesting to see if that would foul on the rubber bands if mounted in the correct place on a 20/12. A mate lent me half a dozen various tonearms to try on my 20/2 just out of curiosity including a Dynavector 505 and an old AT arm but nothing would fit. A 9 inch Ortofon AS212s fits with about 2 mm clearance.

 

Correct, Hergest - the only way a 12" Univector can be fitted on Keith's SME-20 is via an external 'pod' (as it doesn't fit on the plinth).

 

Aaah, OK, he does have an SME V.  AIUI, he prefers to listen to Duc's arm - even though it is not attached optimally to his deck.  (Ideally, on a sprung deck the arm should be located on the plinth.)

 

 

Regards,

 

Andy

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My Vote would be for the Kuzma 4 point--the 12" SME next--duuhh not the blingy version :P

 

Forget the Grahams-- every system I've heard those in/Techdas/ Onedorf/etc --the sound was flat

 

YVMV

 

Willco

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My Vote would be for the Kuzma 4 point--the 12" SME next--duuhh not the blingy version :P

 

Forget the Grahams-- every system I've heard those in/Techdas/ Onedorf/etc --the sound was flat

 

YVMV

 

Willco

 

 

You are good Willco.    To be able to idendify in an entire show system that the Graham tonearm is the point of reference for the sound being so called flat.  LOL laugh_above.gif

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Yep--I called it as I heard it--sorry  :P  I have friends with the Graham Arms on their TT's and some others with same TT's but alternative Tonearms--they sounded better

 

 

Willco

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Hi fellas, I didn't pick up on this thread last night......too busy watching men's tennis to all hours! :D  Thanks to Andy for noting me in the thread too. I don't necessarily feel that Duc's Univector arm suffers by not being attached to the SME plinth, even though the SME plinth is indeed sprung, it is very rigid in comparison to some other sprung decks on the market.

 

I can't recommend Duc's Univector arm highly enough and in the configuration I'm using it on the SME 20, it has outperformed the SME Series V arm [mine is the 9" version, has the gold writing on the arm tube, but without all the other gold bling! :P] when using two different ES modified Denon DL103 cartridges and the Ortofon 2M Black as well. When using the Brinkmann EMT ti though, to me it is line ball between the two arms, but that is still a great recommendation for the Univector, especially given the difference in the relative price points.

 

This is a pic of my 9" SME Series V arm...........gold writing on the arm tube is fine, but I don't like the one above with all the other gold bling though.

 

post-105039-0-71376200-1404517985_thumb.

 

This is a pic of the Univector 12" in Black Ebony and you can see the outboard pod/plinth, that does actually work very well indeed. :thumb:

 

post-105039-0-49173700-1404518114_thumb.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

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