Green Wagon Posted February 6, 2015 Author Posted February 6, 2015 Sierra, If you ever come up this way, I would be happy to have you over.
Green Wagon Posted July 31, 2016 Author Posted July 31, 2016 Update time. Note - I post this as an experiment that I wanted to try for myself as part of this hobby - No other reason. Don't forget, I built these before I took over SB. If others find it informative, well thats their problem Today I decided to try an experiment and see if I could improve my speakers. Old crossover. New crossover. Yes. All I did was change the series cap for the tweeter. Thoughts and findings. - I will be brief so it doesn't sound like a sales presentation - Not what I intend or desire to do here. Troels designed these speakers to use the Silver cap on the tweeter. These new Alumens, Much more to my liking. They've removed that little 'hotness' in the very upper treble. Female vocals are now more natural. Overall a more balanced sound. All interesting cause I always thought the Silver was an awesome match for these tweeters. I guess it's the old thing where you don't know something has issues and can be improved until you try. 1
Guest scumbag Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 Just like those new Litz Inductors. Having compared them to the standard air coil inductors this morning - more midrange detail, cleaner but smoother (less gritty I suppose). I really like the Alumen with the SEA's tweeter that I am using too. Super clear, no emphasis and a great match or the litz in the midrange. You don't know what you're missing until you try the new stuff!
BioBrian Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 Very interesting, Nigel! I expect you to try the Alumens on the midrange next There must've been something in the wind last night - I did some experiments with your Vishay 10nF (0.01uF) bipass caps on my SBA 3-Way. I'd been running the tweeter ones in for a week or more - took them out and had a listen - not sure if I like either in or out now... Then I put Vishays across the mid bank of caps, and they at first sounded a bit nasty, but quickly settled in. I think I can hear some smoothness and a more integrated sound, but not sure if it's clearer - will give them the time they deserve to settle in, and my ears a few opportunities to hear them at different times of day, etc. So the Vishays are on mid and tweeters for now - thanks for making the experiment possible. Didn't see them on any of your Diamond XO versions - have they had a go?
Guest scumbag Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 @@BioBrian, we haven't spoken before but I might chime in. I would personally not use the Vishay's across the Superior-Z's or the Silver-Z's. Personally I feel that both of those cap's are very good in their own right and I would see the Vishay more as a remedial bypass cap - i.e. use it where you have a cheap cap that you want to give a bit of kick to. The Superior-Z's are so smooth and balanced, I have personally not found any benefit from using them. For an interesting experiment though, if you have one, take a Silver-Z (say 0.56uf) and bypass the Superior-Z with that and listen.
BioBrian Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 Thanks, @@scumbag - pleased meet you formally - I do follow your adventures here with interest. Pleased to hear that we sort of agree with the Superior-Z not suddenly turning into something superior to itself. I reckon that using a 0.56uF cap of any sort will alter the value of the basic cap considerably, so is not really a fair test, without using a base cap of half a uF smaller. My testing reveals significant audible and measurable changes with half a uF added or subtracted. But it was good to read Troels saying that you can use better caps in a mix with cheaper ones, as long as the percentage is greater than 25, or something around that. Given the price of the Alumens, it might be worth testing the substitution of one amongst a bank of say Sup-Zs. Apparently, the only difference with Sup-Zs and Silver-Z is the silver leads, which has me scratching a bit. Especially when those nice silver leads are soldered to a thin little bit of resistor wire, etc. I do have Silver-Zs in my DTQWTs, but haven't been moved to experiment with others there. (I think the tweeter itself makes more difference).
Guest scumbag Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 That little bit of silver seems to make all the difference in the world. Not being familiar with your crossover, I guess the 0.56uf may change things a lot so I guess that's not going to work. The Silvers only go down to 0.56uf as far as I know unless Nigel knows otherwise. Bypassing is a bit of a black art. Another complication in the already complicated world of speaker design! But fun to play with. Mark
Green Wagon Posted August 1, 2016 Author Posted August 1, 2016 Very interesting, Nigel! I expect you to try the Alumens on the midrange next Mids, um yean no the thought never occcured to me Small problem. 88uf = 13x 6.8uf. Each speaker. Cough $$$$$$$$$$$. There must've been something in the wind last night - I did some experiments with your Vishay 10nF (0.01uF) bipass caps on my SBA 3-Way. I'd been running the tweeter ones in for a week or more - took them out and had a listen - not sure if I like either in or out now... Yes, I agree, they add something, but its up to the individual to work out if that 'something' is nice or not.. Vishay bipass to tweeter series cap 2.jpg Then I put Vishays across the mid bank of caps, and they at first sounded a bit nasty, but quickly settled in. I think I can hear some smoothness and a more integrated sound, but not sure if it's clearer - will give them the time they deserve to settle in, and my ears a few opportunities to hear them at different times of day, etc. So the Vishays are on mid and tweeters for now - thanks for making the experiment possible. Welcome. And sorry Didn't see them on any of your Diamond XO versions - have they had a go? I couldn't find any at a reasonable price when I built them. Then when I did I got busy. Putting vishays in now would be a time consuming job. Time is something I'm lacking. And when I do have time, I don't have the motivation @@BioBrian, we haven't spoken before but I might chime in. I would personally not use the Vishay's across the Superior-Z's or the Silver-Z's. Personally I feel that both of those cap's are very good in their own right and I would see the Vishay more as a remedial bypass cap - i.e. use it where you have a cheap cap that you want to give a bit of kick to. See that's kinda what I think too. I really need to do more experiments myself. Back to the time deal again. But I do have plans, and I have started down the road to this end. Buuuut it won't be any day soon that I get there. The Superior-Z's are so smooth and balanced, I have personally not found any benefit from using them. For an interesting experiment though, if you have one, take a Silver-Z (say 0.56uf) and bypass the Superior-Z with that and listen. Thanks, @@scumbag - pleased meet you formally - I do follow your adventures here with interest. Pleased to hear that we sort of agree with the Superior-Z not suddenly turning into something superior to itself. I reckon that using a 0.56uF cap of any sort will alter the value of the basic cap considerably, so is not really a fair test, without using a base cap of half a uF smaller. My testing reveals significant audible and measurable changes with half a uF added or subtracted. But it was good to read Troels saying that you can use better caps in a mix with cheaper ones, as long as the percentage is greater than 25, or something around that. Given the price of the Alumens, it might be worth testing the substitution of one amongst a bank of say Sup-Zs. What end value are we talking about ? If its only a small one to start with then yes half uf prob will shift the xover point considerably. Personally I'd go 50/50 mix. but then you need to know what the result will be before spending the money. The bypass to my mind has always been a way of trying to get more from less at a lower price. Apparently, the only difference with Sup-Zs and Silver-Z is the silver leads, which has me scratching a bit. Especially when those nice silver leads are soldered to a thin little bit of resistor wire, etc. I do have Silver-Zs in my DTQWTs, but haven't been moved to experiment with others there. (I think the tweeter itself makes more difference). Yes your right, the only difference is the silver z has solid pure silver leads. I am constantly amazed at how such a small thing makes such a big difference.. It really is a big difference. Sometimes it's too much. I was dubious when Mark wanted to use silvers on the tweeter of the triptych. But they work just fine. The Alumens, yeah, there just nice full stop. Almost a hybrid of the Superior and Silver.
Green Wagon Posted August 1, 2016 Author Posted August 1, 2016 That little bit of silver seems to make all the difference in the world. Not being familiar with your crossover, I guess the 0.56uf may change things a lot so I guess that's not going to work. The Silvers only go down to 0.56uf as far as I know unless Nigel knows otherwise. Bypassing is a bit of a black art. Another complication in the already complicated world of speaker design! But fun to play with. Mark Silvers go down to 0.1uf I only have a few in stock.
Guest scumbag Posted August 1, 2016 Posted August 1, 2016 Silvers go down to 0.1uf I only have a few in stock. And the reason Jantzen made one in that small value no doubt is for the purposes of bypassing.
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