Computer Audio and Tweaks

[Primare Knob]

I do not have a clear idea of where to go, starting this thread, since similar threads already exsist. But I like it to become an exchange of things tried and compared. A bit of a technical know how hub and a try before you buy gathering.

I currently have 2 identical PC hardware systems (non hardware optimizations) and 5 operating systems, tweaked and non tweaked.

I have the following comparison in mind:

OS vs OS: Win 8.1 vs Win 8.1 CAD optimized

Win 8.1 vs Server 2012 R2

Win 8.1 CAD optimized vs Server 2012 R2 Core

Win 8.1 CAD optimized vs Server 2012 R2 AO

Server 2012 R2 vs Server 2012 R2 Core

Server 2012 R2 Core vs Server 2012 R2 Core AO

If people are living near Sydney, they are welcome to message me for a meet up. I don't mind to organize a listen session for comparing OS systems or to have a chat about how things work or to try something new.

I am only short on Phills AO script and hope to find a trial/temp or borrowed version to be able to include it in the listen session.

The players I use are JRiver and JPlay (local and remote) Kernel Streaming via USB

After finding the optimal OS and tweaks I like to start tweaking the bios and do another comparision.

The step after that, would be hardware optimizations and comparison.

All in all, a multi session comparison learning path, which I will use this thread for, to keep track and inform you guys. I hope to get more people to join in, so this does not becomes a one guy opinion.

More to come on this.

Update:

I am going to place a couple of links and information that has been gathered in this topic here at the top and also some of my findings in tweaking down the PC.

I have updated the Excel sheet about Windows services with my new findings. There a 4 Running services vital for Windows Server, and there are 4 services vital to run and control JRiver.

This list is based on the list made by Black Viper. This minial of services is based on a PC with no Wifi

http://www.blackviper.com/service-configurations/black-vipers-windows-8-1-service-configurations/

Here is a link with a free script to optimize Windows 8 and 8.1 and also disable the GUI during playback. You can find the scripts if you scroll down the window inside the page.

http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/computer-setup/

Here is another free script with an Audiophile Server option posted by PXK

http://www.windowsxlive.net/livetuner-2-0-improved-optimizations-with-more-features/

Version 3 posted by nothing 1

http://www.windowsxlive.net/livetuner/

Here is a link for another Audiophile player which also does a lot of tweaks to your PC mentioned by acg.

http://www.phasure.com/index.php?board=1.0

The interesting aspect of people using this player is that they have under clocked their CPU for the best result. Something I like to try out.

Here is a link for another Audiophile player mentioned by nik.d

http://oryaaaaa.world.coocan.jp/bughead/index.html

Here is a link to another Audiophile player mentioned by 24bit, and one that I can recommend as well.

http://www.daphile.com

Here is the link for JPlay.

http://jplay.eu/

Here is the link for JRiver

http://www.jriver.com/download.html

Here is the link for the Audiophile Optimizer

http://www.highend-audiopc.com/optimizer.html

The following links are all computer related

Turn on Auto Logon: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/324737

The Difference between Server GUi and Server Core: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh831786.aspx

Changing IRQ priorities: http://www.petri.co.il/optimize-windows-8-audio-setup-jriver-media-center.htm#

Turn on Wifi on Windows Server: http://blogs.technet.com/b/blainbar/archive/2012/09/14/getting-your-windows-server-2012-to-use-wireless-not-best-practice-but.aspx

Turn on/off Server Features using Comands: http://blogs.technet.com/b/yungchou/archive/2013/12/19/windows-server-2012-r2-installation-options-and-features-on-demand-part-2-of-5.aspx

List of Packages that come with Windows Server: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn452400.aspx

Using command to tweak Services: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh849849.aspx

Using PowerShell to tweak Services: http://4sysops.com/archives/managing-services-the-powershell-way-part-3/

The following links are worth to read if you are planning to tweak things yourself. Using a dual boot System is highly recommended and if you screw up your registry the ability to fix it from within another OS is a feast.

Installing a dual boot system:http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows/install-multiple-operating-system-multiboot#1TC=windows-7

Fix your Registry from a dual boot system: http://superuser.com/questions/145493/how-to-edit-registry-from-another-os-boot-up

You have to change C: for D: because in a Dual Boot you current OS will always be C:, and you try to fix the registry on D:

Edited May 30, 2014 by Primare Knob

[PKay]

I am happy to come along, although unlikely to be able to contribute on the technical IT side.

[henry218]

im actually very interested to build a new pc. thanks for doing this.

where are you located?

[Primare Knob]

I live in The Ponds near Rouse Hill. You are welcome to PM me if you want to meet.

[henry218]

ah cool, not that far from me. im at castle hill

[gavtron]

Hi,

 

For PC tweaks I would recommend server 2012 + AP's optimiser with a Pico PSU being powered by a well regulated power supply.  Also a high quality 5v PSU powering a PPA Studio USB card and the SSD in the PC.  Similar to the configs mentioned here.

 

I have tried different os configs and 2012 is easily the best way to go as far as SQ is concerned.

 

Cheers,

 

gav.

[Galactic Soap]

Primare Knob - This is a very kind and topical offer you've put out there. Thank you.

 

I'm currently debating whether to buy a streamer ($2.5K - NAD M50) or build a PC dedicated purely for audiophile play back. I don't have the technical knowledge to assemble an audiophile PC but by all accounts it's not something too difficult with the right support. I've even considered buying all the components and getting the local computer store to knock it together.

 

I'd hate to be in the position where I'd dish out the relevant cost of all the components ($1.5K - $1.8K if done properly from what I understand) and end up with a solution that's quite a step behind the M50/M51 combo I'm day dreaming about at the moment.

 

I'll be watching this thread with interest.  

[Primare Knob]

Hi Guys,

 

Thank you for your input, interest and your kind words.

I have started to do some listening comparison to get my head around on how to approach this.

 

The comparison was between playing from a "more" dedicated playback machine with local files, and using this machine to stream the files to two other machines over the network.

 

My dedicated playback machine has a modern digital controlled Power Supply, SSD for playback and OS, PPA USB card, Tweaked Bios and Windows 8 optimized, using CAD optimization script and Desktop services kill script.

 

My test systems are $99 second hand Ebay machines with nothing special on board. One is running JRiver MC19 on Windows 8.1 with the CAD optimization script. The other is running JRiver MC19 on Windows Server 2012 R2 Core mode. Both of these machines are receiving their playback files from the network from my "more" dedicated playback machine running JRiver MC19 media server.

 

I have not compared JPlay vs JRiver because that is for a later stage. At the moment it is all about the operating system and software tweaks.

 

I am thinking about using  a 1-10 scale point system where 10 is absolute Audio Nirvana. 1 point is a subtle difference, 2 points a noticeable difference and 3 points a big step forward. I am considering what the base score would be and I think I would give my cheap non optimized Windows 8 machine the base score of 1. This is all relative because even this basic machine will give a decent performance with a good DAC. But starting at 1, will give a 9 point head room for tweaks and optimizations to reach Audio Nirvana. But this is still a work in process.

 

The point difference between Windows 8 Optimized ("more dedicated palyback PC") with local file playback is for me +2, over Windows 8 Optimized with network streaming playback. Windows Server 2012 R2 Core mode is for me +1, over Windows 8 Optimized with network streaming playback.

 

The words to describe the differences would be for me;

Better Bass definition with a bigger punch, a crisper definition of instruments and a better articulation and a more defined separation in a wider soundstage.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Primare Knob

[Primare Knob]

After doing a lot of reading about audio PC's and doing some testing I don't think that it really matters which operating system you choose. In the end it is all about how many programs/services are claiming CPU resources. Each OS in the end can be tweaked down to an absolute bare minimum.

But I do think that Windows 8 / Server 2012 R2 is better than Windows 7 /Server 2012 due to drivers and services being more optimized in the new Windows OS. (Evolution)

At a quick first comparison I think that you have to stay away from playing files over the network. This is not set in stone because JPlay is claiming to use a different approach to anyone else but I have not compared this yet.

Where others are streaming original files over the network to a remote PC that than has to do the decoding, JPlay is streaming a decoded file strait to their "audio" driver so the remote PC doesn't have to use as many resources.

You don't have to disable every service. Every service that has stopped doesn't claim any CPU resources, but likely, only a very small amount of RAM.

 

Feel free to share your opinion. This is relatively new for me as well.

[Primare Knob]

I am thinking about using  a 1-10 scale point system where 10 is absolute Audio Nirvana. 1 point is a subtle difference, 2 points a noticeable difference and 3 points a big step forward. I am considering what the base score would be and I think I would give my cheap non optimized Windows 8 machine the base score of 1. This is all relative because even this basic machine will give a decent performance with a good DAC. But starting at 1, will give a 9 point head room for tweaks and optimizations to reach Audio Nirvana. But this is still a work in process.

 

The words to describe the differences would be for me;

Better Bass definition with a bigger punch, a crisper definition of instruments and a better articulation and a more defined separation in a wider soundstage.

 

Ok news flash!

 

Windows 8 standard                                   network playback       +0 (Base Score)

Windows 8 CAD optimized                          network playback       +2

Windows Server 2012 R2 Core                  network playback       +3

Windows 8 CAD + hardware optimized       local playback            +4

 

Computers and Audio combined! What else could I ask for?

Edited March 28, 2014 by Primare Knob

[Primare Knob]

After running into some problems some annoyances I think that Core Mode is not for the faint hearted.

Trouble shooting in Core mode is a b...h so you have to invert to GUI mode all the time when you are running into a problem.

 

The other annoyances is that the PC wont startup, strait into playback mode, but you always have press Ctrl Alt Del and then enter a password. You can avoid this with a Windows 8 setup. Maybe Unified Remote can help out here but I don't think it will work before the logon screen.

[Primare Knob]

Here is how to auto login

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/324737

 

If you have set up your power button configuration you will no longer need a keyboard or mouse after your setup is working.

[Primare Knob]

Here is another read about the differences between the Server Mode's

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh831786.aspx

 

There is no reason except to safe HDD space to start off in Core Mode and work your way up. Gui mode will work out the best for most people and than work your way down to Core level.

[Primare Knob]

Another read about Windows Services. What they do and if you really need them.

http://www.blackviper.com/service-configurations/black-vipers-windows-8-1-service-configurations/

[Primare Knob]

This is an excel sheet of Windows Services based on the Black Viper one.

I have added the different Server Modes and a Minimal GUI mode stripped down to core mode.

[roh008]

This is an interesting thread - Thanks Primare for doing this.

I am running a HTPC N40L - Win7 on a SSD - and audio and movies from the 4 internal bays.

The software is Jriver.

My question is would the benefits of the tweaks and process management for CPU disappear when adding a good DAC to the last step before it goes to analogue?

How does the transition of these tweaks impact what the DAC ultimately sees? ( I haven't decided what DAC to buy - changed my mind again)

Roh

[Primare Knob]

My question is would the benefits of the tweaks and process management for CPU disappear when adding a good DAC to the last step before it goes to analogue?

How does the transition of these tweaks impact what the DAC ultimately sees? ( I haven't decided what DAC to buy - changed my mind again)

Roh

The tweaks are independent from the DAC, but I assume the better the DAC the more you can tweak for improvements.

What you try to achieve by tweaking the OS is to reduce the noise the CPU is producing, and close to an instant continues stream of bits to your DAC for perfect timing.

When it comes to the DAC you are free to pick any, but one that is electrical isolated from the PC is preferred. The best connection is one via USB or via a USB to SPDIF converter so you are not depending to much on the clock of the PC.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Primare Knob

[LogicprObe]

After doing a lot of reading about audio PC's and doing some testing I don't think that it really matters which operating system you choose. In the end it is all about how many programs/services are claiming CPU resources. Each OS in the end can be tweaked down to an absolute bare minimum.

But I do think that Windows 8 / Server 2012 R2 is better than Windows 7 /Server 2012 due to drivers and services being more optimized in the new Windows OS. (Evolution)

At a quick first comparison I think that you have to stay away from playing files over the network. This is not set in stone because JPlay is claiming to use a different approach to anyone else but I have not compared this yet.

Where others are streaming original files over the network to a remote PC that than has to do the decoding, JPlay is streaming a decoded file strait to their "audio" driver so the remote PC doesn't have to use as many resources.

You don't have to disable every service. Every service that has stopped doesn't claim any CPU resources, but likely, only a very small amount of RAM.

 

Feel free to share your opinion. This is relatively new for me as well.

 

Yes.

I believe it's all about priority.

That's why it's better if you can make exclusive cores.

[Primare Knob]

Yes.

I believe it's all about priority.

That's why it's better if you can make exclusive cores.

You mean by assigning programs/services to use, or not to use, certain cores?

I haven't played around with it to much, mainly because I haven't found a way yet to automate this.

[ThirdDrawerDown]

 

mainly because I haven't found a way yet to automate this.

 

Hi LP, I've been following your knowledge on this topic with interest.  Maybe this comment from Primare is a great cue to link to your advice/previous threads/insights on this please?  I'm on the home run on this long journey!

[LogicprObe]

I've had no success in automation either.

I got a little code once.............back in the XP days but you still had to run it at every boot up and I just got lazy.

There was a noticeable difference in allocating a core to say, Winamp, than just letting Windows do the organising.

Audio is a low priority so it always suffers.

 

I think Jplay is a core grabber, isn't it?

[Primare Knob]

I've had no success in automation either.

I got a little code once.............back in the XP days but you still had to run it at every boot up and I just got lazy.

There was a noticeable difference in allocating a core to say, Winamp, than just letting Windows do the organising.

Audio is a low priority so it always suffers.

 

I think Jplay is a core grabber, isn't it?

JPlay is pretty brutal on the system and quite selfish.

You can change priorities using the register.

http://www.petri.co.il/optimize-windows-8-audio-setup-jriver-media-center.htm#

[LogicprObe]

Pretty sure you can allocate CPU's too............but it has to be done every reboot.

 

As I said.............I haven't played heavily with that stuff since I went to Win 7.............I'm now on 8........running a 7 shell but need to do a new install.

I will try some of these...............although the pagefile used to cause problems in the old days when you turned it off. (I always have maximum RAM)

[PKay]

Due to a lack of IT skills I went the easy route and downloaded a free optimizer which runs on computer boot up.

 

http://www.windowsxlive.net/livetuner-2-0-improved-optimizations-with-more-features/

 

It works really well with my older computer and with the exception of background fan noise (which no optimizer can fix) I am pretty happy with the SQ.

[Damhooligan]

I am only short on Phills AO script and hope to find a trial/temp or borrowed version to be able to include it in the listen session.

You are obviously very interested in optimizing audio via tweaking the OS.

And I can understand you want to explore these things on your own.

You want to compare OS variations, and want to include AO.

There is one thing I don't get.

I don't understand , Why don't you just buy AO.

In all fairness, it's not 'that' expensive.

And considering, you got a massive interest in it, it's a 'bargain'.

Once you have AO, you actually can compare all the things you want to compare and analyse.

It's too bad I don't live nearby, as I would love to be a part of your experiment.

But it does sound like a lot of fun.