proftournesol Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Diy people spend money where it matters,competing with commercial gear is a waste of time and $$$$$$$$$$$$ imho. Spending money where it matters means spending money on music. 6
bhobba Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) This thread has become about as objective and mature as a (Prep) school yard fight. If all these DIY hero's were so smart, they wouldn't be expending so much energy trying to discredit the reputation of a successful Inventor, but would rather be invested in and focused on developing thier own products to compete with Bybee. Its the direction these discussions always go. Its got to do with your philosophy and approach to audio. To some it looks like hooey so it must be hooey. To others who have heard all sorts of stuff like isolation platforms, capacitors etc that seem as though they wouldn't do much - but do - they are more circumspect. They are generally, especially if they have heard it themselves like I have, more receptive to the idea there may be something to it. Threads between two diametrically opposed camps will never get anywhere, and I believe this thread should be moved to where it belongs - the great debate section. Thanks Bill Edited March 22, 2014 by bhobba
proftournesol Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Perhaps we can agree to differ then without it turning into rancour and abuse with the thread inevitably being locked. 2
Bronal Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 I just had a look at the reviews section of the Bybee website. Nothing from Stereophile or TAS that I could see. Lots from lesser sources. If I understand things correctly, the Purifiers are a scientific invention as they claim to alter the properties of electrons. One would therefore expect some form of peer group review of them at some stage. But there appears to be nothing. Has Jack Bybee ever been interviewed about his work? It seems to me that this yet another instance where the audio community lets itself down. Audio is fundamentally based in science, but where has there been a scientific examination of the Purifiers? (My apologies if I've missed it somewhere.) 3
Gruffnutz Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 This thread has become about as objective and mature as a (Prep) school yard fight. If all these DIY hero's were so smart, they wouldn't be expending so much energy trying to discredit the reputation of a successful Inventor, but would rather be invested in and focused on developing thier own products to compete with Bybee. Most inane argument ever. Simply put, shouting ever louder and attempting to reverse the onus will not change the fact that you and your fellow believers have either been taken in or that any resistor will likely make the 'positive changes' you believe you have experienced. A resistor can only add distortion or attenuate, no matter what 'type' it is. Even if it's made with Unobtanium 236 it's still only a resistor. That's objective. 1
bhobba Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Simply put, shouting ever louder and attempting to reverse the onus will not change the fact that you and your fellow believers have either been taken in or that any resistor will likely make the 'positive changes' you believe you have experienced. Like I said - diametrically opposed views on audio. The assumptions in the above is staggering eg that it's just a resistor - nothing more. Thanks Bill 1
David A Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Most inane argument ever. Simply put, shouting ever louder and attempting to reverse the onus will not change the fact that you and your fellow believers have either been taken in or that any resistor will likely make the 'positive changes' you believe you have experienced. Most hypocritical argument ever What gives me peace of mind is knowing Jack Bybee couldn't give a rats a*** about the meaningless lip service you're paying his products. You can call them every name in the book, worthless, a con, whatever name you can think of. I mean how ironic. At the end of the day, guys like me will just go back to our high end systems and enjoy amazing music...just what Proft said it's all about. I"ll leave you DIY'ers to argue over the bone you're chewing on.....yaawwwnn
jeromelang Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 How is this cheeby being used? Do you place them between the positive and negative terminals of your speakers?
hochopeper Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 I've not read that diyA thread in detail (have not got that much time) but I did glance at it quite some time ago. To those saying that the diyA participants are jealous or can't make money of their own with their own inventions, many of those guys have very successful careers in materials science, audio and electronics components design. Patents and success amongst many of them. The most unfortunate part of all of the bybee discussions on diyA is that John Curl has let himself be dragged into the matter. He is an excellent analog electronics designer and regardless of belief or otherwise in the effects his reputation in that field should not be cast in doubt due to bickering of that nature. 1
Gruffnutz Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Like I said - diametrically opposed views on audio. The assumptions in the above is staggering eg that it's just a resistor - nothing more. Thanks Bill But it is 'just a resistor'. What's 'staggering' is that you don't understand that; even with pictures to help you with the big words... <_< Most hypocritical argument ever What gives me peace of mind is knowing Jack Bybee couldn't give a rats a*** about the meaningless lip service you're paying his products. You can call them every name in the book, worthless, a con, whatever name you can think of. I mean how ironic. At the end of the day, guys like me will just go back to our high end systems and enjoy amazing music...just what Proft said it's all about. I"ll leave you DIY'ers to argue over the bone you're chewing on.....yaawwwnn How is it at all 'hypocritical'? I haven't got a picture to help you with that one but you clearly don't understand the word's common English usage. I have called the product nothing other than what it is; a resistor. Nice of you to try, pathetically, to imply some sort of 'class divide' though. Quite revealing. P.S. Listening to some 'amazing music' as I type thanks.
betty boop Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 guys can we leave out getting personall here 1
bhobba Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) But it is 'just a resistor' That's the crux isn't it. If you cant see that's an assumption then - shrug. Absence of electrons in conductors acting like particles and conducting electricity - that's obvious hooey as well. Until you come across the Hall Effect. Thanks Bill Edited March 22, 2014 by bhobba
bhobba Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 How is this cheeby being used? Do you place them between the positive and negative terminals of your speakers? Optimally they are placed at the driver terminals. That's where they are in my speakers. But they can also be used to good effect at the input of the crossover. That's where they were used in the comparison I heard them with. They were attached with alligator clips to the input of the speaker and you could easily compare it with or without. I ordered my speakers with them immediately after hearing it - so did Doggihowser, Rob181 and others whose names escape me off the top of my head. Like I said - no need to take my word for it - it is easily demonstrable. Thanks Bill
zipstartcanoe Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 That's where they are in my speakers. Which ones did you use Bill?
bhobba Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Which ones did you use Bill? The speaker versions: http://bybeetech.com/?page_id=136 Mike bonds them to the driver terminals on his top of the line speakers. Doggie has some in his speaker cables as well. Thanks Bill Edited March 22, 2014 by bhobba 1
Guest fordgtlover Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Bybee makes the following scientific claims about the Bybees on his website http://bybeetech.com/?page_id=11 Bybee Quantum Purifiers operate on the quantum mechanical level to regulate the flow of electrons that make up the signal (picture a metering light regulating freeway traffic flow). Current flow within the Quantum Purifier is unimpeded and ideal (think of the unencumbered flow of traffic on a lightly traveled expressway). During transit through the Quantum Purifier, quantum noise energy is stripped off the electrons, streamlining their flow through ensuing conductors. The benefits of this process extend beyond the physical length of the Quantum Purifier. As electrons speed through the purifier, a “slipstream†effect is formed which facilitates current flow in the surrounding conductors of the playback system. Introducing Bybee Quantum Purification into the electron path reduces quantum noise and increases signal velocity, resulting in performance improvement beyond what is attainable by any cable alone, no matter how well designed. Bybee's claims are base in science, which means that they must be supportable by scientific evidence. If there is no scientific evidence, his words are simply flowery prose. Simple and factual. There should be no subjective interpretation of his statements. Edited March 22, 2014 by fordgtlover
zipstartcanoe Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 The speaker versions: http://bybeetech.com/?page_id=136 Mike bonds them to the driver terminals on his top of the line speakers. Thanks Bill. Do all the KillerDac "cronnies" use them? (genuine question!) I am curious about how they would compare to actually using a resistor of the same value in the same location. Bybee makes the following scientific claims about the Bybees on his website http://bybeetech.com/?page_id=11 Bybee Quantum Purifiers operate on the quantum mechanical level to regulate the flow of electrons that make up the signal (picture a metering light regulating freeway traffic flow). Current flow within the Quantum Purifier is unimpeded and ideal (think of the unencumbered flow of traffic on a lightly traveled expressway). During transit through the Quantum Purifier, quantum noise energy is stripped off the electrons, streamlining their flow through ensuing conductors. The benefits of this process extend beyond the physical length of the Quantum Purifier. As electrons speed through the purifier, a “slipstream†effect is formed which facilitates current flow in the surrounding conductors of the playback system. Introducing Bybee Quantum Purification into the electron path reduces quantum noise and increases signal velocity, resulting in performance improvement beyond what is attainable by any cable alone, no matter how well designed. Bybee's claims are base in science, which means that they must be supportable by scientific evidence. If there is no scientific evidence, his words are simply flowery prose. Simple and factual. There should be no subjective interpretation of his statements. My partner has a PHd in Physics and has spent her career in some pretty esoteric research; including a stint at Lawrence Livermore (oooohhhh....... military secrets.....). I showed her the quote, and she literally spat onto my screen she snorted/laughed so hard. "You stereo guys will by ANYTHING! If the stupid things do work though, its definitely not as described" was her comment once she settled down. 3
THOMO Posted March 22, 2014 Author Posted March 22, 2014 Optimally they are placed at the driver terminals. That's where they are in my speakers. But they can also be used to good effect at the input of the crossover. That's where they were used in the comparison I heard them with. They were attached with alligator clips to the input of the speaker and you could easily compare it with or without. I ordered my speakers with them immediately after hearing it - so did Doggihowser, Rob181 and others whose names escape me off the top of my head. Like I said - no need to take my word for it - it is easily demonstrable. Thanks Bill The power of suggestion or the power of alligator clips? Was the comparison done blind and randomly with selections done in isolation from each other?If not it is worthless.
bhobba Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) The power of suggestion or the power of alligator clips? Like I said previously - degenerating into silly claims about alligator clips. Been there done that. Thanks Bill Edited March 22, 2014 by bhobba
Guest fordgtlover Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Thanks Bill. Do all the KillerDac "cronnies" use them? (genuine question!) I am curious about how they would compare to actually using a resistor of the same value in the same location. My partner has a PHd in Physics and has spent her career in some pretty esoteric research; including a stint at Lawrence Livermore (oooohhhh....... military secrets.....). I showed her the quote, and she literally spat onto my screen she snorted/laughed so hard. "You stereo guys will by ANYTHING! If the stupid things do work though, its definitely not as described" was her comment once she settled down. Excellent input. If a very esoteric claim by the manufacturer makes someone skilled in the knowledge domain scoff and spit their drink, then it would seem reasonable to wonder that if they don't work the way Bybee describes, then do they work at all? Edited March 22, 2014 by fordgtlover
bhobba Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Thanks Bill. Do all the KillerDac "cronnies" use them? (genuine question!) I am curious about how they would compare to actually using a resistor of the same value in the same location. The Kdac guys dont use em. Only Clay to the best of my knowledge uses them in the PDX, and then as a special order. My partner has a PHd in Physics and has spent her career in some pretty esoteric research; including a stint at Lawrence Livermore (oooohhhh....... military secrets.....). I showed her the quote, and she literally spat onto my screen she snorted/laughed so hard. "You stereo guys will by ANYTHING! If the stupid things do work though, its definitely not as described" was her comment once she settled down. Fair enough. Although I don't have a Phd, I am qualified in applied math with a deep interest in quantum physics, being a regular poster on the Quantum Physics section of Physics Forums: http://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=62 That would be the appropriate place to discuss this issue with the other high powered Phd's posting there. I look forward to anyone that is concerned the scientific claims are all hogwash posting over there so it can be examined by the properly qualified people. Thanks Bill Edited March 22, 2014 by bhobba
bhobba Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Bybee's claims are base in science, which means that they must be supportable by scientific evidence. If there is no scientific evidence, his words are simply flowery prose. Simple and factual. If that's the level you want to discuss this then this is the place to do it: http://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=62 Be warned however - these guys are deadly serious. I regularly post there and the silly carry on often seen on this forum will not be tolerated. Thanks Bill Edited March 22, 2014 by bhobba 1
zipstartcanoe Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 The Kdac guys dont use em. Given they seem to be uber tweakers, why is that? Or do they need to be 50 years old and not available new to qualify
bhobba Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Given they seem to be uber tweakers, why is that? Or do they need to be 50 years old and not available new to qualify Its just they haven't tried it. Clay only did after I got them put in my PDX. I probably will get it done to my Kdac sometime down the line - but I have a lot of irons in the fire right now and want them out of the way first. Thanks Bill
ArthurDent Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Given they seem to be uber tweakers, why is that? Or do they need to be 50 years old and not available new to qualify That's a bit unkind. Perhaps they're just waiting for the version that uses a Duelund resistor. Edited March 22, 2014 by KenTripp 1
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