Newman Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 So, we're asking Bentley to produce a Mercedes Benz C-class competitor at a competitive price? Because it will increase sales?
Guest Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Or Bentley to produce a Bentley, at Mercedes Benz C-Class price 1
betty boop Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 not quite bentley, because it must be remembered that halcro for what ever reason took itself the way of the dodo... maybe all sorts of reasons for that happening. but following the same formula as previously might just take down the same path again... just because they produced pre pwrs in the past doesnt mean they cant combine them in the same chasis and produce a high end stereo integrated at a competitive price ! their av processor they made was really using an oem platform. that approach is fraught with issues...and a few companies have made a pickle using the wrong basis. better to stick to stuff you know. especially since stuff in the av game is constantly becoming outdated. probably not something to be investing in if getting back in the market.
Newman Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 it must be remembered that halcro for what ever reason took itself the way of the dodo. I guess they need our help with strategy, then. Actually, the story of Halcro's demise is very interesting, and I was told it when in Melb last October for the AV Show. Unfortunately, my recollection of it is poor, so I will leave that for someone else to tell.
Guest Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Mike made it very clear he was passionate about driving the brand in a 2 channel direction. I see no reason why a pre/integrated won't be a possibility down the track.
Guest Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Actually, the story of Halcro's demise is very interesting, and I was told it when in Melb last October for the AV Show. Unfortunately, my recollection of it is poor, so I will leave that for someone else to tell. It's basically outlined in my article ???
Newman Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Certainly that's a good outline, but I think there is a long-form version that would be interesting too. The 'gruesome details' story. 1
Guest Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Ultimately it's irrelevant. That management and ownership is gone, and this thread is about the future of Halcro 2
peacewise Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Is Halcro going to build an Integrated around the $2k-5k mark? I canny go to $16k.
WhakPak Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Mike made it very clear he was passionate about driving the brand in a 2 channel direction. I see no reason why a pre/integrated won't be a possibility down the track. They could do that tomorrow, based on their already well-proven technology...strip the guts out of a dm8 and put it in an MC20. 1
WhakPak Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Is Halcro going to build an Integrated around the $2k-5k mark? I canny go to $16k. There is too much competition at that price point, and I can't see them diluting their offerings to appeal to that space. However there is sense in driving down the "cost-no-object" mentality in their strive for "perfection". A price point more widely affordable, even if it results in a product with performance specs not as good as what they are capable of building under the previous regime. Can't see them doing anything under $10k, can't see them doing anything digital either (except for embedded control), but I wait with interest to see what offerings they put to market. 1
metal beat Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 They could do that tomorrow, based on their already well-proven technology...strip the guts out of a dm8 and put it in an MC20. Really, take a wonderful pre amp chassis and put an OEM Class D amp into it??
peacewise Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Here I was thinking electronics halved in price every 18 months or so. Damn.
WhakPak Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Really, take a wonderful pre amp chassis and put an OEM Class D amp into it?? No, other way round...a lot of the build cost of dm8 would be in the chassis, display, and power supply...take out what's left and drop it into an MC20. Although it will need a new "look" to better suit the changed nature of the hybrid product, and to separate its pedigree from the old to the new. And since when was a Halcro Lyrus module an OEM...as far as I know it was all Halcro.
tktran Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) With luxury goods like high-end audio equipment, the first thing is to have a vision for your brand, think of the market you want to service, then decide on products last. You want to leverage on the ultra-high fidelity image of the brand, not sell a "value" product. With boutique manufacturers like Halcro, who do not do high volume manufacturing, I would want to build on the award-winning prestigious brand, not go after the low-end. I found that comparison with Bentley interesting. But with demise of Australian car manufacturing, it seems relevant some observations: A) you can't compete with the South Korean, Chinese workforce, largely because of distorted labour rates. But if you decide to outsource manufacturing in Asia, your final product should have a excellent fit and finish and QC. Clearly it can be done, because Apple's customers never seem to complain about their products being Made in China. B) If you're going to manufacture in Australia, you've accepted that the cost is going to be higher, so you may as well compete with other first world nations who are perceived to be the best in their field eg, if you're making wine, aim to compete with the French, if you're making cars, aim to compete with the Germans, if you're making Hi-Fi, aim to compete with the English (Americans ???) C) it is easier to start with a prestige brand and introduce a seemingly affordable product, (but never have connotations of budget or entry-level) than to start with a value brand, and introduce a luxury product eg. Hyundai are having some difficulty with their $US70+K luxury large car, BMW's MINI cars has no such problem, because the value equation always comes into the picture with the Hyundai, but never the MINI. C) build what the people want eg. SUV, crossover vehicles, efficient compact cars,- 3 largest growing segments, not large sedans (demand for Holden Commodore, Ford Falcon, Toyota Camry/Aurion and variants have continued to weaken) Porsche/Audi/BMW goes from strength to strength with their SUVs making up the highest proportion of sales, and total profit, without losing any credibility on their halo products like the 911/A8/7series (highest profit/unit) As an example, build what the market wants (in 2010+ DACs or headphones/amps were all the rage, but what about 2014+?) build it in Australia, and go after the likes of top established manufacturers (eg. dCS, ESS Tech, Audeze) etc, but demand a top price for a top product. Edited March 25, 2014 by tktran 2
Sir Triode Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) I'm sure one can build a quality product at a reasonable price instead of relying on over inflated prices to give the impression of luxury/sterling quality. e.g. Audio Research has several lines including an affordable one - all built in the USA. Yet, noone thinks that their products of poor quality. That is the problem with High End today - that high price must equal better sonics. Look at all the Australian audio companies that have followed the marketing strategy outlined above e.g. Duntech, Metaxas - Not around anymore. If you are going to pitch your products to the right hand side of the bell curve, then you selling to a very small market. Edited March 25, 2014 by Sir Triode
Guest Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 We're possibly beginning to veer off topic now. Some great feedback has been given, and I'm sure Longwood Audio are not going into this blindly. 1
Newman Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Good effort tktran. I was once at a Bruce Candy presentation to a group of audio professionals. He brought along his marketing director, who spoke about the target market. It was fascinating. Basically the target market wasn't audiophiles at all. It was the 'billionaires club'. The discussions here about pricing and buyers and volume are completely irrelevant at that level. He waved around magazines that I've never seen, that you will never see in a newsagent. Filled with ads for, not sunglasses, jeeps and fitness clubs, but tax law firms, Monte Carlo apartments, cruise yachts, Bentleys, .... and Halcro. The ads say "Worlds best amplifier - Stereophile", 0.00001% distortion, and a photo. Buyers need to know that if they want the best, they just get this one, and don't waste time auditioning, reading test reports, discussion boards (gawd sake), and comparing prices. A target sale might be $0.5-1M and install amps in a couple of homes, a few apartments, an office and a yacht. The demise of Halcro was, I think, not about wrong products and poor sales. It was about wrong owners and buyouts. Edited March 25, 2014 by Newman 7
jeromelang Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Good effort tktran. I was once at a Bruce Candy presentation to a group of audio professionals. He brought along his marketing director, who spoke about the target market. It was fascinating. Basically the target market wasn't audiophiles at all. It was the 'billionaires club'. The discussions here about pricing and buyers and volume are completely irrelevant at that level. He waved around magazines that I've never seen, that you will never see in a newsagent. Filled with ads for, not sunglasses, jeeps and fitness clubs, but tax law firms, Monte Carlo apartments, cruise yachts, Bentleys, .... and Halcro. The ads say "Worlds best amplifier - Stereophile", 0.00001% distortion, and a photo. Buyers need to know that if they want the best, they just get this one, and don't waste time auditioning, reading test reports, discussion boards (gawd sake), and comparing prices. A target sale might be $0.5-1M and install amps in a couple of homes, a few apartments, an office and a yacht. The demise of Halcro was, I think, not about wrong products and poor sales. It was about wrong owners and buyouts. Very well said. I love reading about such products even if I might never afford them. Edited March 26, 2014 by jeromelang
Magenta Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 I just want to thank everyone for such a gracious show of support. Some really great ideas here; some of which are well aligned with our future direction. Rest assured that our new products will sound amazing and you might even see a more affordable entry into what Halcro offers. You’ll just have to wait and see. Billionaires Club? Now way! I'm a VW Kombi driver from way back ...... We just love music. The top end of what we do will always be expensive. There is no doubt of that, but I respect the way PS Audio have brought really high end to the masses and we want to do as much of that as possible with Halcro. I also like the way PS Audio connect with their end-users and I would like to use this forum to do the same with you. Having said that, building an amplifier of the calibre of a DM78 and beyond is a really expensive exercise. Have you ever looked inside one? 1
lemnoc Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Well done Magenta Audio !! In a country where manufacturing is on the decline it's good to see some people still willing to take a risk and take up the challenge. We need more people like this in Australia and less real estate agents. Also did anyone see Motan guitars on Lateline business the other night ? People advised the owner to make cheap guitars and instead they concentrated on the high end custom jobs which has been successful for them and they are now looking at export markets into china and other parts of asia. So not everything has to always be cheaper cheaper Here is a good review of the dm88 in Stereophile with some good pictures of the insides. http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/806halcro
jeromelang Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Impeccable measurements! However users do take note: "....but the Minimal Path input inverted signal polarity....."
Phantom Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 Didn't know these were Class D amps. Specs aren't particularly special. Knocks of some gloss IMO, but as usual, it's in the listening and I have an open mind.
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