samus Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I have an opportunity where I may be able to pick up a Rotel RB 1070 for a bargain. I already have a 1070 powering my mains in my lounge setup and was considering using the additional 1070 in a vertcal biamp setup. Would this provide a noticable enhancement to my setup - or is this just a bit over the top and a waste of time and maybe money? (Ideally I would have bought an RB 1080 when I got my first 1070 but circumstances never really presented to do so - so I guess Im also asking would 2 x RB 1070's biamped be as good as an RB 1080 single amp?) 1
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Provided you use an electronic crossover, you will gain some improvement.
Grumpy Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 This is what I'm aiming to do also when funds permit, a 2nd 1070 , A couple of ways you can do this . You can use one amp for the highs and one for the lows or you can bridge the amps to give you about 320w per channel. 1
Grumpy Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Provided you use an electronic crossover, you will gain some improvement. Why an electronic Xover ZB? I'm not at all a techy fella so please be gentle . 1
Newman Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Not much to be gained from stereotypical biamping where the loudspeaker crossover remains between the amps and the drive units. Unless you are pushing the single amp near its limits (unlikely). But I would still pick it up if it were me, with an eye to the future where an active crossover could be used to replace the speaker crossovers. That offers genuine gains. 1
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Why an electronic Xover ZB? I'm not at all a techy fella so please be gentle . An electronic crossover splits the low frequencies for one amp and the high frequencies for the other amp. Using an electronic crossover conveys serious advantages for a system. Not using an electronic crossover is pretty much a waste of time, effort and money. Here is a pretty good primer on using bi-amping: http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm Persevere with the article if you can. It will be worth it. If you cannot get a handle on the concepts, I'll paraphrase for you: Bi-amping with electronic crossover - good idea. Bi-amping without an EC - waste of time. Edited March 12, 2014 by Zaphod Beeblebrox 1
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted March 12, 2014 Volunteer Posted March 12, 2014 An electronic crossover splits the low frequencies for one amp and the high frequencies for the other amp. Using an electronic crossover conveys serious advantages for a system. Not using an electronic crossover is pretty much a waste of time, effort and money. Here is a pretty good primer on using bi-amping: http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm Persevere with the article if you can. It will be worth it. If you cannot get a handle on the concepts, I'll paraphrase for you: Bi-amping with electronic crossover - good idea. Bi-amping without an EC - waste of time. corrected for you
ArthurDent Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I have an opportunity where I may be able to pick up a Rotel RB 1070 for a bargain. I already have a 1070 powering my mains in my lounge setup and was considering using the additional 1070 in a vertcal biamp setup. Would this provide a noticable enhancement to my setup - or is this just a bit over the top and a waste of time and maybe money? (Ideally I would have bought an RB 1080 when I got my first 1070 but circumstances never really presented to do so - so I guess Im also asking would 2 x RB 1070's biamped be as good as an RB 1080 single amp?) Bi-amping a bi-wireable speaker may well be an improvement. One way to find out and you did say the extra amp would be a bargain and you'd always have a spare etc. Electronic crossovers before the power amps whilst the preferred option is hardly practical for most people.
henry218 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I have an opportunity where I may be able to pick up a Rotel RB 1070 for a bargain. I already have a 1070 powering my mains in my lounge setup and was considering using the additional 1070 in a vertcal biamp setup. Would this provide a noticable enhancement to my setup - or is this just a bit over the top and a waste of time and maybe money? (Ideally I would have bought an RB 1080 when I got my first 1070 but circumstances never really presented to do so - so I guess Im also asking would 2 x RB 1070's biamped be as good as an RB 1080 single amp?) whats the speakers? 1
MrHorsepower Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Samus, i am also interested in this. Zaph, how about as Grumpy said using in bridged mono (just to bump up the Watts) would you still need an electronic crossover to get best result ?
davewantsmoore Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Using an electronic crossover prevents the unwanted frequencies from entering the amplifier and causing inter-modulation distortion... it also avoids passive components in the signal path which can sometimes be a good idea. Ken is pretty spot on. It's not possible (practical) to replace the crossover in a speaker without being able to take some type of (acoustic or electrical) measurements.
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Samus, i am also interested in this. Zaph, how about as Grumpy said using in bridged mono (just to bump up the Watts) would you still need an electronic crossover to get best result ? Bridging amplifiers is completely different to bi-amping. Bridging an amplifier converts a stereo amplifier into a mono one, thus providing a THEORETICAL 4 times increase in power. In real life, the increase is usually between 2.5 and 3 times the power of a stereo amp. No electronic crossover is required, but the amp should be able to be either internally bridged or be used with an external bridging adapter. Additionally, when an amplifier is bridged, it 'sees' half the impedance that is connected to it. IOW: A 4 Ohm speaker appears as a 2 Ohm speaker to a bridged amplifier. Care must be exercised with amplifiers not capable of serious current capacity. 1
samus Posted March 12, 2014 Author Posted March 12, 2014 Bridging amplifiers is completely different to bi-amping. Bridging an amplifier converts a stereo amplifier into a mono one, thus providing a THEORETICAL 4 times increase in power. In real life, the increase is usually between 2.5 and 3 times the power of a stereo amp. No electronic crossover is required, but the amp should be able to be either internally bridged or be used with an external bridging adapter. Additionally, when an amplifier is bridged, it 'sees' half the impedance that is connected to it. IOW: A 4 Ohm speaker appears as a 2 Ohm speaker to a bridged amplifier. Care must be exercised with amplifiers not capable of serious current capacity. I'm not too interested in bridging even though I know the 1070's have that capability with some minor tweaking. Cheers for the feedback too!
samus Posted March 12, 2014 Author Posted March 12, 2014 An electronic crossover splits the low frequencies for one amp and the high frequencies for the other amp. Using an electronic crossover conveys serious advantages for a system. Not using an electronic crossover is pretty much a waste of time, effort and money. Here is a pretty good primer on using bi-amping: http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm Persevere with the article if you can. It will be worth it. If you cannot get a handle on the concepts, I'll paraphrase for you: Bi-amping with electronic crossover - good idea. Bi-amping without an EC - waste of time. Thanks for the link - and wow there is some info within to absorb. Looks like I need to get my head around the crossover parts to apperciate the pro's and cons etc.
samus Posted March 12, 2014 Author Posted March 12, 2014 Grumpy - would you consider a 1080 over a second 1070?
henry218 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 well if its 3way it may be more beneficial, for a 2.5way prob only very little benefit running them biamp. just imagine sending 130w to your tweeters
Grumpy Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Grumpy - would you consider a 1080 over a second 1070? The 1080 is a 200w amp the 1070 a 130w so I suppose you could use the 1080 for the lows and the 1070 for the highs. Why would you not want to bridge 2 1070's, I'm sure the extra oomph would be outstanding in most situations 1
betty boop Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 The 1080 is a 200w amp the 1070 a 130w so I suppose you could use the 1080 for the lows and the 1070 for the highs. Why would you not want to bridge 2 1070's, I'm sure the extra oomph would be outstanding in most situations grumpy rather than bi-amping with two 1070s I would go the 1080...also I would encourage not to bridge the 1070. something tried with the 1066 and completely changed the whole charecter of the amp...making sound rough and forced in sound. bridging doubles distortion ps also keep in mind while the extra oomph can be handy...speakers draw current though the extra watts maybe no use at all unless the speakers utilise them. the 1080 though would suggest a better power amp so no doubt some gains to be made and a bargain too the 1080 wen pop up second hand
betty boop Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 well if its 3way it may be more beneficial, for a 2.5way prob only very little benefit running them biamp. just imagine sending 130w to your tweeters got the wrong end of the stick...you see while the tweeters wont draw current to consume 130W (note you dont send 130W to the tweeters, they draw current) where bi-amping can bring benefit to the tweeters is if the amp your using to both tweeters and mid bass is so under powered that running into distortion and breaking up...which is often heard at the tweeters. utilising say sufficient power amp to drive the bass end and tweeter end in those cases can bring benefit. ofcourse you wont get the benefit of an electronic xover where the respective amps are only amplifying the freq specific to tweeter and mid bass but the benefit of additional power and separate reserves available from bi-amping can still in some situations (depending on amp and speaker combination) bring some benefit as suggested to grumpy though, while bi amping might bring some benefit by adding another amp, it always worth asking the question whether better to rather than adding a second am is it better to go for a better amp in the first place
henry218 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 got the wrong end of the stick...you see while the tweeters wont draw current to consume 130W (note you dont send 130W to the tweeters, they draw current) where bi-amping can bring benefit to the tweeters is if the amp your using to both tweeters and mid bass is so under powered that running into distortion and breaking up...which is often heard at the tweeters. utilising say sufficient power amp to drive the bass end and tweeter end in those cases can bring benefit. ofcourse you wont get the benefit of an electronic xover where the respective amps are only amplifying the freq specific to tweeter and mid bass but the benefit of additional power and separate reserves available from bi-amping can still in some situations (depending on amp and speaker combination) bring some benefit as suggested to grumpy though, while bi amping might bring some benefit by adding another amp, it always worth asking the question whether better to rather than adding a second am is it better to go for a better amp in the first place in reality, the speakers couldnt handle 130w
betty boop Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 in reality, the speakers couldnt handle 130w what speakers ? the tweeters ? well I'll say again they will draw current you dont send them watts. and quite likely you will destroy them first with clipping and an underpowered amp than over drive them but I think you missed my point...
henry218 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 jamo c405. what im saying is, the 130w amp that he got is large enough. if it cant deliver the sound he wanted, either the speakers not good enough or he doesnt like the sound of the amp, so adding the same amp would be futile.
betty boop Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 jamo c405. what im saying is, the 130w amp that he got is large enough. if it cant deliver the sound he wanted, either the speakers not good enough or he doesnt like the sound of the amp, so adding the same amp would be futile. fair enough, but am I'm not sure I'd that readily to jump to that conclusion, because as I know its something comes down to a speaker and amp combination. I would personally suggest if he has a 1070 at his disposal try it. but would challenge too whether he is better off going for a better amp in the first place eg the 1080 which is a lovely amp. as always I dont think its the watts but the quality of those watts
samus Posted March 12, 2014 Author Posted March 12, 2014 I'm not unhappy with my setup - I like my 1070 and speaker combo very much. I was curious as to the impact on sound quality if by adding another 1070 may have...? If I had the opportunity I would get a 1080 as my preference would be a single higher quality power amp over bi-amping. So...anyone wanting to pass on a 1080 send me a pm!
Recommended Posts