room acoustics

[topgear]

genral comments on plywood 12 or 18mm for ceiling for sound proofing looks and acoustics?

[Luc]

Looks?

 

What... your going to have the actual ply sanded and sealed/stained/painted?

What's your reasoning there, aesthetics or the idea that plywood will serve as an acoustic barrier?

 

Why Ply and not acoustic Soundcheck Gyprock and if the budget stretches, 'Green Glue'+acoustic insulation and of course the different ceiling+ frame construction you can do for walls+ceiling using this method.

 

Here is some fantastic general advice for soundproofing in construction....4 elements of soundproofing

 

Budget is everything of course as is usage.

 

Some more info will help your case here as others can assist and advise. Room dimensions and usage and is it a new room/build or a reno/refurb? Basic questions that most people will ask.

 

Plywood? It made a nice barrier today for me as I drove my excavator over it to save the grass at a local church during plumbing reno's. I've seen it polished with inlaid trims as a cheap flooring alternative and it looked the part, both cheap and indeed good looking...go figure.

 

Plywood with a finish over the top of it I've seen but it's exxy.

 

Each to his own though.

[Guest Willow]

Fantastic idea topgear , however as Luc has suggested we would need more information relating to the application , room , etc before the guru's can assist.

 

A general comment - A classic example of what can be achieved with timber acoustics is the Sydney Opera House. The interior walls are lined with Brush Box acoustic panels. Brush Box being chosen for its strong acoustic capabilities and durability. Ceilings in the Opera Houses' Concert Hall and Opera Theatre use white birch plywood panels with an acoustic plasterboard substrate. This world-class and iconic public building serves as an architectural and acoustic benchmark to this day.

 

Yours may not be the Opear House , but worth a shot.

[Guest]

Much better results when posted in the "Room Acoustics" forum.

[topgear]

ok room is purpose built stand alone concrete filled block lime rough random render both sides 4.85 w  2.72 h by 7.9 l, no windows 1 doorway(will have a hinged sound panel over it),money is all ways an issue but it doesnt need to get in the way of a good room to serve me for the rest of my life the ceiling beams are steel 200mm depth with double layer sound insulation the room is strong the floor is concrete 200mm depth with 20 concrete piers 2 meters depth (engineers request) above the room upstairs is my afternoon sound studio up and running sounding lush but not holding in the sound (plasterboard double insulated) so downstairs i need volume at midnight as not to disturb too many people, plywood would be stained i made these plans along time ago, fit out will happen soon but i thought i would submit them to the collective gurus for your blessings, with nothing in the room i put a make shift stereo in there to my surprise it was very live but not too bright and no echo as an empty concrete room would sound (the lime render walls i think is doing its job there) early days yet the idea behind the ply is the whole place is fitted out with lots of feature timber, but i could use plasterboard, i thought it would be boring so it could go either way, my sound system is good not a point of discussion at this moment but i have heard a many of high end systems in locations that where average thats what i have done too not having a choice over the years but too many people out there it seems are not keeping a balance on there systems vs room, you can go over board a spoil it, so to plywood or not to plywood that is the question

thanks for replies!

[Clydemount]

.............. Here are couple of spare full stops you can use for your next post. They really don't take that long to put in but they surely make things easier to read.

[Luc]

Well I've recently been in a room that sits on a slab and has core-filled concrete blocks(are your walls core-filled or empty?) and it had no windows and two doors. With a very modest system set up in it, it was a very dull sounding room. Music came out of the well spaced speakers and kinda just dropped to the floor, that's the way I described it. I didn't like it at all.

 

But the guys decided to take on board some of the ideas he's seen online and he's going to frame the whole room out and create big cavities between two frames and do the green glue/gyprock thing and then carpet the lot and then do some measurements and look at some passive traps ect.

The double frame is going to allow him to hide the majority of his cabling too and with a conduit system employed he'll swap out different speaker cables as money and interest permits, with the cables exiting through...yup, cable holes in the skirting. More than one position too so that if he really wants to move the entire system he can move it forward two metres and not need shorter or longer cables if you follow me.

 

 

You seem fairly set on using plywood judging by your post so if you can then do some room(sound) measurements before you start with just your rendered walls and then do it again after you've done the ply thing and see what difference you have achieved.

Are you carpeting the floor?

[David.M]

genral comments on plywood 12 or 18mm for ceiling for sound proofing looks and acoustics?

I'm no expert but achieving 'sound proofing' and good 'acoustics' for a listening room I believe require different strategies.  Sound proofing will in turn require more acoustic treatment in the room because you're containing the sound pressure within the listening space.  

[topgear]

Yes it is core filled but render is soft 15mm lime and there will be carpet, because of the higher ceiling it sounded good with the kef reference speakers placed there for a day compared to upstairs where it is timber framed with sound check plasterboard and sound

 

insulation, but i would plaster ceiling downstairs if plywood was not practical. 

 

Conduit runs under slab already to all locations. I must add soundproofing is only between upstairs (lots of windows) and downstairs as the building is not connected to my house its 15m away from anyone, however i do plan to have 400 watts ripping out to the speakers at times.

[David.M]

topgear, I would seriously consider getting a suitably qualified expert involved, you're in the enviable position of having the basic shell so you don't need to make any mistakes from here.  If there isn't anyone within a reasonable distance you could probably achieve a lot by email (sending plans/photographs) and in due course also receive some guidance on doing measurements, properly interpreting the results & then addressing any problems.  Someone like Paul Spencer from Red Spade in Melbourne might be able to help, incurring the expense now will I think be money very well spent & I would guess the $ involved will be very modest compared with component costs.  

If you do the room right the first time you will never have to re-visit it, not only are you never wondering 'if' the room is done right but you can upgrade equipment to your hearts content knowing the differences you hear are the components & not the room. 

 

A good example of how easily mistakes can be made with a little knowledge is the PS Audio listening room refurbish (a video was posted by Marc not long ago).  They guttered their room as they had acquired some very high end & very expensive speakers and wanted to fix some of the room's acoustic problems.  Built floor to ceiling helmholtz resonators in the 4 corners to fix bass issues but alas when all finished & the new system running it was revealed the resonators failed to address the problem.

 

Good luck with it:)

[topgear]

good talk David early days yet, lucky upstairs is finished more suited to my listening work room (2 way valve low power set up) so i can fit out down stairs anytime.  i agree no harsh decisions yet i have plenty of time get it right, just throwing ideas out there for honest opinions which i have received.

i think thats the way forward many thanks..........