Hullo,

In my conversations regarding tone controls, one learned member suggested DEQX to me.

Has anyone experienced this stuff and what would be best for my needs? My system is in my signature.

DEQX is DSP room correction and DSP crossovers for active speakers.     It can change your sound like a tone control .... but I think you're probably looking for something a bit simpler than DEQX ?!

If DEQX gave me an awesome sounding outcome across the majority of recording variables, that would be fine.

as I just posted in your other thread...

 

"I personally like the simplicity of analog pre amps, wiht digital systems like wiht the deqx you need to pay quite a bit

 

re deqx its not THE only active xover fully eq system around. there are many standalones. and as I have mentioned prior there are many high end av processors/preamps that do analog pretty well and have active xovers, eq and processing which is as good as it gets. "

 

If DEQX gave me an awesome sounding outcome across the majority of recording variables, that would be fine.

 

That depend on how much you are willing to lightened your pocket.  I heard the difference with it on/off.  Full room calibration does make it sound “sweeter† very acceptable to the ear but there are other things you can do to achieve exactly the same outcome.

DEQX is brilliant and does a brilliant job.

 

HOWEVER, you should always do as much as you can to sort out room acoustics, BEFORE using DEQX or similar. Sorting out your room problems is likely to be significantly less expensive too.

not just room...

 

postioning of both speakers, sub and listening postion is critical. it is indeed position ...position... position !  which can infact make the best of any room

 

and also setup,

 

yes you can go with poor placement and setup and expect something like deqx or any other processor/eq system to work a minor miracle .... and they can... but it is better to just get this right in the first instance than expect elec to try get right in retrospect

Start  with having the right speaker to room size helps....   After that its like Al and your real-estate agent says, position position position!   Once that is achieved you will begin to think....WTF?  The best thing to do is see if you can loan or hire one for your rig, because once you use it, it will give you an idea on what it should sound like.  However its not perfect as it sweetens the overall result you may find other presentations not as well received.  Its all got to do with perception and being subjective!     But on the other hand if money was not an issue........

Treating a room can also significantly 'lighten' the wallet. Especially if TSO or family are sharing the space and want aesthetics to be considered and you don't have the DIY gene implanted.

I think of items like DEQX as the icing on the cake, after treatment then final speaker + room correction, plus if you decide to go (or already hAve) subs it can assist with integration. You can also measure the room response and if you are not so inclined Alan @ DEQX can assist with remote setup, plus it's Ozzie too

OK, thanks all. I think I have the bestest possie for my 1038's that the given space will allow, been mucking around now for 12 months, keeping notes etc on measurements and so on. Might not worry about a sub...try some room treatement....then look at DEQX. Money is relative, $4k or so would be OK considering what I have spent so far on gear, and the fact that I suspect my little P3 is the weak link.

I have a few TSO's but they don't live here, they just visit. Hopefully not at the same time.

Hi Darren

 

What are you wanting the Deqx or any parametric eq to do to your system that your tone controls don't do on your P3?    BTW, does the P3 have a tape loop?

 

 

I use the HDP-4 specifically for bass eq under 200hz for severe room issues with 1 flat deqx speaker calibration and 3 different bass eq's with the click of the remote.   

 

Not so sure that broad band eq in the upper frequencies is the way to go, as generally speaker placement and room treatments can tame this.

cheers

Just curious, but slight off topic as well, could Dirac with Amarra achieve the same effect?

Gee Darren first you asked about Sanders amps and now DEQX.  Maybe planars are next? Are you sure that you can't visit?

 

Seriously ...

 

The main functional areas/processes of a DEQX are

 

1.  Speaker correction.  This leaves out room effects from its calculations and focusses on the speaker drivers specifically.

 

That is fixing group delay, and amplitude discrepancies (of the speakers not the room); applying/modifying digital XOs and applying various slopes to the XOs,  in an active multiway speaker setup.  I don't have active speakers but still use the group delay and freq response correction function.  Even leaving out room effects, as this step does, the speakers will be corrected and thus sound different.  Mine were a few dB down between about 100 and 300Hz - fixed.  This speaker correction is where a lot of the real magic lies - phase discrepancies due to the speakers are largely gone.

 

2.  Do the same with sub(s) ie measure and calibrate without room effects.

 

Each speaker/driver ends up with any number of filters for which you have carefully chosen the parameters used in their construction.

 

3.  Build 4 profiles using the filters that you want.  Download them to the DEQX from the PC.

 

4.  Sub integration.  Measure the in room response and match, volume, time alignment/phase, XO freq, XO type and slope, pass filters of the subs and the mains.

 

5.  Apply EQ, if desired, to correct room response (recommended to adjust in the bass region only) and/or to add your personal flavour of house sound. eg rolled-off treble, midrange vocal bump, 100-200 bass slam, etc.

 

6.  If you have 3 EQ bands left over after step 5, you can use them via the remote control handset to function as bass, mid and treble EQ bands for quick realtime correction of unpleasant source material.

 

7.  Having done all of this in the digital domain, the DEQX then has 3 stereo DACs and an analogue volume control.

 

8.  Select in realtime which of the 4 profiles that you prefer at the time.  Fiddle the EQ and selected other settings in realtime if you have a PC attached.  (Haha - I love this - just like DIY tinkering with no physical effort or electronics skills or knowledge required!)

 

The different DEQX models have various inputs, outputs and functionality.  The above is what my HDP3 does.  It's not just for room correction or an EQ box.

 

You still have to do speaker and sub positioning and room treatment to do the total job properly.  You have to decide whether this is the sort of functionality that you want need.

SNIP

 

Not so sure that broad band eq in the upper frequencies is the way to go, as generally speaker placement and room treatments can tame this.

cheers

 

Yeah me too, TT.   It can be done but I leave the mids and highs well-alone as a general rule.  I suppose that if one had a very hard bright room then EQ could be considered once other techniques haven't proved entirely successful.

Yea Aechmea

DEQX can do all you say or you can start simple with room correction and build up to the more sophisticated corrections. I think it is good one box lets you do it all without having to purchase additional modules

I'm going to start soon, using it for initial measuring

Hey TT, the P3 has an external loop which I suspect is what you are describing as a tape loop (two little grey u shaped wires plugging into four jacks?). I am hoping to subdue the digital harshness of the beryllium tweeters and get some depth to the bass in my very hard tiled, glassy gyprock-ceiling living room. The speakers are currently a good 600mm from the wall, 1200mm from any room corners etc. About 2m apart. This is the best possie, I have found, after my experimenting described above. Mids are nice and clear, high are a tad sharp and bass is clean and tight but needs more authority.

 

As previously mentioned, I listen to metal, rock and pop, so, crap recordings.

 

What room treatments can be done for treble? I only really know of bass traps. I have curtains etc, a floor rug and so on.

 

Aechmea, thank you for your very in formative post, the more you guys type, the more I think would like one of these gizmo's.

 

I will be riding to Phillip Island in Oct, I could visit then maybe.

 

Then again, the GF does like a nice wine.....

darren room treatments for top end are really easy, as opposed to bass which need big monstrous traps to be effective. I would try someone like wavetrain acoustics in sydney.

 

re treatments, I've followed focals recommendations for treating a room with furnishings and found works pretty effectively

 

User instructions
The sound rendition of the loudspeaker depends strongly upon the listening room acoustics, the place of the
loudspeakers and the listening area. These factors can be modified in order to correct or enhance a desired
effect.

Should the soundstage be imprecise or not centred, try to move the loudspeakers closer to each other.
Harsh or aggressive sound means that your listening room is probably too reflective. Try to use any absorbing materials (such as tapestries, sofa, wall coverings, curtains combined with reflective materials to absorb or diffuse resonances.

Should the sound be flat” or muffled, there are too many absorbing materials in the listening room. The sound appears to be closed-in, with a narrow stereophonic image. Try to find a better compromise
between absorbing and reflective materials within your listening room. Generally the wall to the rear of
the speakers should be made up of reflective materials so that the sound image exhibits satisfying volume and width. On the contrary the wall on the rear of the listener should be absorbing in order to avoid reflections damaging the perception of the stereo soundstage. These reflections may limit the impression of depth of the sound image. Furniture, such as bookshelves should be ideally placed along the side walls in order to diffuse sound waves and to prevent some frequencies from being amplified, especially in vocal range (it removes flutter echo).

 

 

is your room too reflective ? excess of hard reflecting/hard surfaces ? ie tiled/wooden floors, glass walls/windows ? solid furniture walls, celiengs and windows as opposed to - carpet on floors, heavy curtains,  soft furnishings, sofas, carpet ...bookshelves etc...

 

I will be riding to Phillip Island in Oct, I could visit then maybe.

 

Then again, the GF does like a nice wine.....

 

We can manage that.

darren room treatments for top end are really easy, as opposed to bass which need big monstrous traps to be effective. I would try someone like wavetrain acoustics in sydney.

 

re treatments, I've followed focals recommendations for treating a room with furnishings and found works pretty effectively

 

 

is your room too reflective ? excess of hard reflecting/hard surfaces ? ie tiled/wooden floors, glass walls/windows ? solid furniture walls, celiengs and windows as opposed to - carpet on floors, heavy curtains,  soft furnishings, sofas, carpet ...bookshelves etc...

Ok Al, shall check them out.

My room is a bit of everything you describe. Tiles and glass but also curtains, leather lounge and pouf..sorry, Ottoman...large carpet mat in front of the speakers. Will check out Wavetrain.

Hey TT, the P3 has an external loop which I suspect is what you are describing as a tape loop (two little grey u shaped wires plugging into four jacks?). I am hoping to subdue the digital harshness of the beryllium tweeters and get some depth to the bass in my very hard tiled, glassy gyprock-ceiling living room. The speakers are currently a good 600mm from the wall, 1200mm from any room corners etc. About 2m apart. This is the best possie, I have found, after my experimenting described above. Mids are nice and clear, high are a tad sharp and bass is clean and tight but needs more authority.

 

As previously mentioned, I listen to metal, rock and pop, so, crap recordings.

 

What room treatments can be done for treble? I only really know of bass traps. I have curtains etc, a floor rug and so on.

 

Aechmea, thank you for your very in formative post, the more you guys type, the more I think would like one of these gizmo's.

 

I will be riding to Phillip Island in Oct, I could visit then maybe.

 

Then again, the GF does like a nice wine.....

 

 

Does the treble control on the P3 do much?

Might not worry about a sub...try some room treatement....then look at DEQX. Money is relative, $4k or so would be OK considering what I have spent so far on gear, and the fact that I suspect my little P3 is the weak link.

 

Work towards speakers that have wide and flat anechoic frequency response,  well controlled cabinet behaviour, and flat or smoothly varying directivity with frequency. Using DEQX to fake this with lesser speakers is impossible and quite likely to make things worse.

 

Then work towards room treatments that mitigate floor reflections, allow side reflections, and diffuse other reflections without excessive absorption. Using DEQX to fake this with a lesser room is impossible and quite likely to make things worse.

 

Then use miniDSP to smooth out the main peaks below 300 Hz, without boosting the troughs more than a few dB, and, if needed, a gentle broad FR tilt to get a rough similarity, with pink noise, at the listening seat, to the B&K curve or -1 dB/octave (to taste), and pocket the $3850 change from not buying DEQX.

 

Just curious, but slight off topic as well, could Dirac with Amarra achieve the same effect?

 

If you are a 100% computer audio guy, yes. Tricky to hook up to a TT tho'.

Does the treble control on the P3 do much?

Yes, it does it's thing from -10 to +10 (jumps up or down in '2's', usually around 4 to 8). Bass is the same.

 

 

Work towards speakers that have wide and flat anechoic frequency response,  well controlled cabinet behaviour, and flat or smoothly varying directivity with frequency. Using DEQX to fake this with lesser speakers is impossible and quite likely to make things worse.

 

+1 , don't think this is the way to go really, 

 

 

 

I am hoping to subdue the digital harshness of the beryllium tweeters and get some depth to the bass

 

Nothing against Focal speakers, i haven't heard your model but have heard others, but from the type of music you like and the problems you are experiencing, my thoughts would be to try something like an Accuphase, warm ss amp or look at speakers that are more suited to your requirements, a 3 way with 15in bass and soft dome tweeter would probably do the trick imho.  

Darren if you could get to Bathurst I'd say go visit someone there who has his head around the DEQX.

 

After experiencing his many iterations of speaker setups I would say nothing is as accomplished as a DEQX.

 

But as already suggested attempt to fix the room as best as possible first. Then the Deqx will still improve what you have started with.

Yes they do cost more but once you experience them you will see why they are worth the extra.

 

If you can't get there soon, October has the mighty Bathurst pilgrimage.

Then use miniDSP to smooth out the main peaks below 300 Hz, without boosting the troughs more than a few dB, and, if needed, a gentle broad FR tilt to get a rough similarity, with pink noise, at the listening seat, to the B&K curve or -1 dB/octave (to taste), and pocket the $3850 change from not buying DEQX.

 

What two products are you comparing there exactly?