Guest yamaha_man Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Hi, I'm wondering how to format a Portable hard drive for use on both apple and PC. Is this at all possible? Thanks in advance.
proftournesol Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Yes, Apple can read both FAT and HPFS, Windows is limited to FAT and NTFS. You can format it using the Disk Utility programme in your OSX Utilities folder, it'll even ask you if you want the drive readable by Windows machines
Guest yamaha_man Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Cheers prof! So I format it on the apple device and it'll be all good for PC?
DoggieHowser Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Yes and No. Sorry. Edit - it's read/write Apple by default reads/writes FAT32 and its own HPFS. It can also format drives to FAT32 or HPFS. It can read NTFS but not write to NTFS. But with the help of third party software like Paragon, you can also write to NTFS. Seagate ships their drives with a limited edition of the software - it reads/writes to NTFS formatted Seagate drives but not other brands. You can buy Paragon on its own to overcome that limitation. But IMHO the software can be buggy. I've encountered problems writing large files occasionally with the Seagate version of Paragon. Don't know if the full version has the same bugs. OK, here's the caveat about working with FAT32 drives on Macs and PCs. I would format the drives in FAT32 on a PC (or a Mac running Windows in Bootcamp/Virtual Machine) not on the Mac. Why? Because while a PC will format the drive as a single FAT32 partition, Mac OS does not. It actually creates a small partition that's not usable on PCs in addition to the FAT32 and usually invisible. So in effect you get two partitions. In some devices like set top boxes, it sometimes doesn't see the FAT32 partition because it only sees the first partition. I haven't figured out how to prevent Mac from creating that partition in the first place and there's no way to see it in Disk Utility on the Mac. And deleting the first partition on PCs takes a few additional steps using the Command Line cos even Windows Disk Management can't delete it directly (even tho it sees it). Edited March 7, 2014 by DoggieHowser 2
bwhitesox Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 I agree in all but the NTFS bit...Apple can read from NTFS formatted drives by default but cannot write to them.
kdoot Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 There's some good advice here, and also a little that's just off the mark. If I may... For historical reasons, Windows and OS X have different systems for organising data on a storage device like a hard disk. There are actually two layers of structure: the "partition scheme" which breaks the storage up into big chunks called "partitions" which can be used for different purposes, and the "file systems" which dictate how information is stored within any given partition. Prior to about 2005, the default partition scheme for Macs was the Apple Partition Map (APM). With the move from PowerPC to Intel processors and the adoption of the Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) firmware spec, Apple switched the default partition scheme to the EFI-standard GUID Partition Table (GPT). @@DoggieHowser, it's the GPT spec which mandates the creation of a 200MB partition at the start of any storage device greater than a certain size and that's why you can end up with that result when formatting a drive on a Mac. GPT is fully supported by modern Windows OS's as well. You just have to live with the 200MB partition being reserved for system use. It's not a big deal. But if you really want the whole disk dedicated to a single partition you can opt to use the truly ancient Master Boot Record (MBR) partition scheme which was created hand-in-hand with the original PC BIOS. Both Windows and OS X are perfectly happy to work with a disk that uses MBR. So now you have your partition scheme sorted, it's a question of file systems. Apple and Microsoft are still worlds apart here, for historical and still-legitimate technical reasons. Macs rely on the Mac OS Extended filesystem, more commonly known as HFS+ where HFS stands for the Hierarchical File System and dates back to about 1990. Windows has zero support for this filesystem built in, but you can buy software that enables Windows to read and write to HFS+ volumes. That's probably not what you want to do. On the flip side, Windows' default filesystem is the NT File System (NTFS) which has its origins, not surprisingly, way back in Windows NT 3.1. Because this is a proprietary technology and there's real risk involved in trying to write data to a filesystem that you've had to figure out for yourself, Apple doesn't provide the ability for OS X to write to NTFS disks. However there is built-in support for reading NTFS on a Mac, and you can get software (both free and commercial) which facilitates reading and writing to NTFS from a Mac. This is a very real option in many cases. The common ground between Windows and OS X when it comes to filesystems is the venerable old File Allocation Table (FAT). This was the system used by DOS and Windows 95, 98 and ME, and its specification has been made public. Modern Windows can still work with FAT, and Apple provides support for reading and writing FAT also. That's the most common solution for formatting a disk to use across both platforms. Usually it's better to do the formatting on a Mac, but occasionally that'll fail and you will need to format from Windows. If you're on a Mac: 1. Launch Disk Utility 2. Click on the icon for the external drive 3. Select the "Partition" tab 4. Click the "Options" button and select "Master Boot Record" then "OK" 5. From the "Partition Layout" popup menu choose "1 Partition" 6. On the right side you should see the format automatically selected as "MS-DOS (FAT)" 7. Change the name of the partition if you want 8. Click "Apply" 3
Keith Anderson Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 Well talk about making a simple execution into a nightmare. If you want to format a external drive that both Mac and Windows can read and write to and you don;t want to be limited to the 4GB limit Fat32 has then simply format the drive as exFAT. No limits, both system can read and write to it perfectly and you will have no problems. 1
DoggieHowser Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Well talk about making a simple execution into a nightmare. If you want to format a external drive that both Mac and Windows can read and write to and you don;t want to be limited to the 4GB limit Fat32 has then simply format the drive as exFAT. No limits, both system can read and write to it perfectly and you will have no problems. Does it? http://blog.lewan.com/2009/10/13/sharing-an-external-drive-between-a-pc-and-a-mac-exfat-discussion-results/ Looks like it's supported in 10.6.8 and newer. It wasn't an option when I first looked at it but that was with Leopard. Looks like there's a free NTFS driver for Mac as well in the blog link I posted. Edited March 10, 2014 by DoggieHowser
Hifiplus Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 + use exFat please! FAT32 is out of date. And make it gpt, not mbr again that is old tech. Select initialize to launch disk utility.
kdoot Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 My fake apologies to the snarks who object to having context and explanation provided to support an answer to what is actually a deeply technical question. There are definitely multiple ways to skin this cat. exFAT is an option but it's relatively new and has some potential drawbacks such as not working with any but the most recent OS versions. I did mention NTFS read-write support for the Mac too. But the claim that FAT32 is limited to 4GB is flat out wrong, sorry. The actual limit is more like 8 *tera*bytes when using 4K sectors. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/184006 It's only that Windows refuses to format a drive using FAT32 if it's bigger than 32GB. Which is why you do it on another platform, like OS X. As for MBR vs GPT, there's really no reason to care either way on an external hard drive with a single volume. MBR and FAT32 are dead simple and give the maximum chance of compatibility with any random computer you want to plug your portable storage into. (FWIW, GPT includes a fake MBR at the start of the disk to indicate to non-GPT-compatible systems that the whole disk is actually used and they shouldn't try and erase it.) 1
oldrose Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 Well talk about making a simple execution into a nightmare. If you want to format a external drive that both Mac and Windows can read and write to and you don;t want to be limited to the 4GB limit Fat32 has then simply format the drive as exFAT. No limits, both system can read and write to it perfectly and you will have no problems. I agree that this is the way to go unless you have very old hardware/software ( either Mac or PC ) but it provides the simplest explanation of what to do. I certainly would not rely on any NTFS write tool being reliable.
DoggieHowser Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 How well is exFAT supported with set top boxes/media players like the TopField?
Keith Anderson Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 exFAT works on all OS avert Leopard. so Lion, Mt Lion and Maverick all work with exFAT, sorry should have said Leopard is out of date, bit like XP. Works on all Windows system from 7 onwards. I'm not talking about formatting a FAT32 drive, I'm talking about moving files onto it and 4GB is a limit, just try moving a 6GB movie file to a FAT32 and it will come up with a read error, it a dinosaur format that is as old as windows itself. exFAT has been around for a while and frankly if your using Snow Leopard or Leopard than your miles behind anyway.
Keith Anderson Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 Does it? http://blog.lewan.com/2009/10/13/sharing-an-external-drive-between-a-pc-and-a-mac-exfat-discussion-results/ Looks like it's supported in 10.6.8 and newer. It wasn't an option when I first looked at it but that was with Leopard. Looks like there's a free NTFS driver for Mac as well in the blog link I posted. Can't help if people are using old operating systems.
kdoot Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 Look, I never said you should only use FAT or never use exFAT. All I'm saying is that in the broad wash of things, the majority case best option has for some time been to use FAT. exFAT will be the better choice for some people and may become the best choice for most before very long. None of them are perfect options, including exFAT. For instance, it is potentially more vulnerable to corruption and data loss due to the habit that people have of disconnecting drives from computers before they've been safely "ejected" or "put away". This is not a zero-sum game. It's a complex technical decision with trade-offs in all cases. 1
Keith Anderson Posted March 10, 2014 Posted March 10, 2014 All formats are potentially corruptible no matter what you use and exFAT is just the same, no better but definitely no worse, all the mac community recommend it just about and I've used it for years and never had a corruption and I've pulled the HD out without ejecting it numerous times. But each to their own, exFAT works, works well and is the easiest to set up
kdoot Posted March 11, 2014 Posted March 11, 2014 OK. So for those who'd like to live a little closer to the cutting edge and/or need to deal with individual files greater than 4GB in size, here's the equivalent set of instructions for GPT partitioning and ExFAT filesystem: 1. Launch Disk Utility 2. Click on the icon for the external drive 3. Select the "Partition" tab 4. Click the "Options" button and select "GUID Partition Table" then "OK" 5. From the "Partition Layout" popup menu choose "1 Partition" 6. On the right side change the format option to "ExFAT" 7. Change the name of the partition if you want 8. Click "Apply"
DoggieHowser Posted March 11, 2014 Posted March 11, 2014 Can't help if people are using old operating systems. No need to get snappy. I meant I evaluated exFAT many years ago and dropped that, and never looked at it since. I haven't really looked at using external HDDs for a long time either because I have been using a NAS for ages. The USB storage devices I use are occasionally for media players and I don't remember seeing those I used with exFAT support.
davewantsmoore Posted March 11, 2014 Posted March 11, 2014 All formats are potentially corruptible no matter what you use and exFAT is just the same, no better but definitely no worse Yes, I use exfat too .... but your comment is simply untrue.
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted March 11, 2014 Volunteer Posted March 11, 2014 Glad you asked @Sir Bearded Man Esq ?
davewantsmoore Posted March 11, 2014 Posted March 11, 2014 I'll be sure to not worry about whether the answer is correct or not next time
kdoot Posted March 11, 2014 Posted March 11, 2014 I'll be sure to not worry about whether the answer is correct or not next time Ha! Nah, I should have just done the modern thing and put a "TL;DR" at the start of my original post. Forgot to cater to the non-detail-oriented folks who really just want a direct answer.
davewantsmoore Posted March 11, 2014 Posted March 11, 2014 just want a direct answer. Yes - It's a fair enough request (wasn't trying to say otherwise)
Keith Anderson Posted March 11, 2014 Posted March 11, 2014 There is no correct answer, you could format FAT32 but your limited in files size so if you wanted to move movies onto it it won't work, you can use NTFS but will need to run a third party app for it to work and there are many horror stories on some of the software that let you run that way, you could run exFAT and that works fine but some have had trouble with it also. I run exFat for my external drives that I need to be able to use on both platforms, I have never had a trouble with the file system or HD's. I use Hitachi drives only. What works for me may not work for you but to me to suggest using FAT32 is like saying go back to DOS
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