I was anti-Apple, until.....

[TP1]

Potentially nothing, depending on the exact letter of the law / interpretation.

However it would be illegal for you and I, as we are not allowed to enter into arrangements for the sole purpose of tax minimisation.

It is illegal for big companies too and there are countless tax cases on this. But if it sells printed media it is fair game. No company I can think of would even try to respond in detail to those allegations because the only arbiter of this is the Taxation Office. Their statement indicates the ATO has approved the arrangements.

Another indicator of whether this is BS or not is the reaction of the Government and the Opposition. Neither has had a shot at Apple and just restated their commitment to stop tax avoidance in general. In times of genuine transgression, they shout loud and hard about what will be immediately done to claw back underpaid tax. These are some of the rare occurrences where bipartisan support is given to legislation.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Tasso

[davewantsmoore]

It's irrelevant whether or not its illegal for you or I.

 

If you were an Apple shareholder, would you expect them to pay more tax than they are legally obliged to pay?

 

No, I definitely wouldn't .... which I why I implied earlier that we can't "blame apple for this" ....   It's our fault (Australia) if anyones.

 

As a bit of rhetorical discussion point  ..... if it is good to prevent you and I from "cheating the taxman" .... then why not companies?!   (yes, I understand there are reasons to encourage companies with tax breaks  .... but let's not allow them to take advantage of us)

[sir sanders zingmore]

Of course it's good to prevent people and companies from cheating the taxman.

Has apple been cheating ?

[peacewise]

Seems to me that Apple moving further into sustainable energy shows how a company can think in terms of decades and generations of profit, rather than quarterly or annually.

And if one group of drongos don't want to think like that, well tough titties, invest elsewhere, I like it.

[TP1]

Of course it's good to prevent people and companies from cheating the taxman.

Has apple been cheating ?

No. There is no evidence of it. ( cannot assume any transgression if the ATO does not). The real questions here are what was the motive of the article and why weren't equally lame analyses done with other companies.

[aechmea]

Bit like blaming the players because you don't like the rules of the game.

 

Don't like the rules - no problems, just change them.

 

--------------------------

 

I think that there is also a misunderstanding between "tax evasion" and "tax minimisation".  I minimise tax by putting assets into my super fund and drawing a tax-free pension.  (I am over 60).  It is not evasion as the guvmint actually encourages people to do it and thus provide for themselves.  I pay every cent of tax that I am supposed to, ie. it's not evasion.  The same applies to the several thousand pages of other tax laws.  You simply do whatever the law allows.

[davewantsmoore]

Of course it's good to prevent people and companies from cheating the taxman.

Has apple been cheating ?

 

I wouldn't like to say as I'm not expert, but .....    Activities entered into for the sole purpose of minimising taxation are illegal.    If they're not technically cheating, they are very likely cheating the spirit of the system.

 

They may have some specific arrangement with ATO

[davewantsmoore]

 and why weren't equally lame analyses done with other companies.

 

Agreed.    It's difficult to blame anything on Apple....   If we don't like what is happening, then the law is either not tight enough, or not enforced.

[TP1]

I've just scratched the surface a little more  and  realised  that the period the article  refers to  pre-dates the time intel chips were used in their PCs.  I would be surprised if any profits at all were made in Australia during those years of low volume  and high overhead costs per unit. 

Edited March 7, 2014 by Tasso

[davewantsmoore]

wow, really.   me too.

[Captain Crunch]

Oh dear.....

 

US tech giant Apple has shifted an estimated $8.9 billion in untaxed profits from its Australian operations to a tax haven structure in Ireland in the last decade, an investigation by The Australian Financial Review has found.

Last year Apple reported pretax earnings in Australia of only $88.5 million after it sent an estimated $2 billion of income from its Australian sales to Ireland via Singapore, where Apple negotiated a secret tax deal in 2009.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/tax-deal-how-apple-shifts-its-billions-out-of-australia-20140306-347x9.html#ixzz2v7uqInp0[/size]

This might not be moral but is it legal? It is up to governments to close tax loopholes if they exist. Last time l checked, no one was offering to pay more tax if they didn't have to. Multi nationals are no different to individuals in this regard, a point well made by the late Kerry Packer!

[davewantsmoore]

legal

 

Almost certainly (apple aint stupid) ... I think the question (where Tasso was going before) is is it "desirable".    What tax loopholes (either by design or otherwise) exist, and are we getting any benefit out of them.

[mwhouston]

I'm not an Apple fan but was given an iPad II by my mother who won it in a raffle. I only use it because I have it. But lately I have used its blue tooth capability to connect to some audio systems around the house and found it convenient and enjoyable. The Pad has a 24Bit\96K DAC which I understand is entry level but probably performs better than most old CD player DACs. Also the blue tooth is aptX an improved standard over the originally.

I had been searching for better internet radio (I listen mainly to classical) with ABC ClassicFM a very poor 64K bits. I tried Pandora for a while but found the content restricted and even pathetic. BUT iTunes Radio is really excellent. A variable bit rate of 256K tops them all and content is well varied and interesting. By taking the audio from the port and not the ear phone jack a high quality audio stream can be had. I have been listening to this for a week now and are extremely impressed with sound quality, lack of adds and content.

Using the iPad is very convenient. If I used a laptop I would have to add an external USB DAC. The Pad allows a simple (Jaycar sell them) iPad port to RCA leads straight into my system. You must avoid the earphone jack and associated driver ccts. and volume control. I'm impressed.

[mwhouston]

This is the system I am listening to iTunes Radio on. I have three listening areas and this is the TV end but I have pulled out my UX-171A based system (Intermezzo), (1920 valves with 80 rec tube) and Fostex FE206En speakers. The amp only has 0.5W RMS and only two transformers in the audio path no caps or resistors. But iTunes Radio is extremely enjoyable through this system config. The preamp is a single stage 12AU7 with a jFet driver back end.