HonkyFonk Posted March 17 Posted March 17 (edited) Hi All, So I have been getting back into Vinyl with a rega P1 which is cool, but I have had in mind to get out the turntable a bought many years ago and has been in storage at my folks place. I bought it from Audio Excellence in Drummoyne in about 1995, and as I recall, it was traded. CDs were the big deal at that time of course, and I remember the salesman saying he could sell me something new and cheap, (my budget wasn’t big) or this second hand unbranded creation, which I went for and enjoyed. I must have listened to 150hrs over the next few years but then went overseas and it has been packed up since. Now I have no experience in setting it up right, but I’d like to learn. what do you guys think.. ? should I keep it? get a new akg stylus? try the grace cartridge? (I never have). Any thoughts welcome! any SME guides/gurus out there? connoisseur mechanism sme 3009 mk II improved AKG PM15MD grace F9-L into a rotel pre/power Edited March 17 by HonkyFonk 4
aussievintage Posted March 17 Posted March 17 (edited) 10 hours ago, HonkyFonk said: any SME guides/gurus out there? Not a guru, but I love the SME3009 tonearms. I have two. One is the same model as yours, except it has the removeable headshell, whereas yours is fixed. The knife edge bearing, and the sliding base plate are outstanding features IMHO, along with the bias weight cable that even has a rotating pulley, not just sliding. The turntable is quite good too. It is from the era where they strove for lightweight belt drive. Edited March 17 by aussievintage
aechmea Posted March 17 Posted March 17 Back in the day, I had a Grace F9-E (on an SME3009) which was considered to be the best moving magnet cartridge of its time. I am not at all familiar with the "L" but suspect that it might be worth persisting with depending upon the state of the stylus and cantilever. Don't toss it just yet.
audiofeline Posted March 17 Posted March 17 I'm not familiar with the turntable or cart, but the salesman did well to guide you to getting this with the SME arm, and all documentation. The plinth isn't original, it's hard to tell from the pix if it's better than the orig, if it is heavy/sturdy it would be an improvement. The Connoisseur had a cover to the belt/pulley, you could probably make something yourself (or 3D print?) as a replacement, see this eBay ad for photos which shows what the cover it looked like https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/362042418491 (no endorsement of the ad, which is for replacement belts, implied). You can make your own replacement belt out of 0-ring rubber, carefully joined.
aussievintage Posted March 17 Posted March 17 10 hours ago, HonkyFonk said: Now I have no experience in setting it up right, but I’d like to learn. The tonearm setup I know. You should first set the lateral balance, but I would bet it is close already. The little weight on the outrigger sets this balance, as well as the tracking force fine adjustment. You move the weight sideways for lateral balance, sliding the right angled arm away from the arm, or towards it. To test - raise the tonearm a little off its knife edge bearings in the pivot (maybe a screwdriver or kitchen knife under the tonearm shaft just in front of the pivot), and see if it balances side to side. Then set the tracking force by turning the rear counterweight, same as many tonearms to get it close, and further fine adjustment is via the little outrigger weight, moving it forwards and backwards. Lastly, set the bias weight. The notches for the string towards the back cause more tracking force to be applied than the ones closer to the pivot. Also adjust the position of the little pulley wire. Remembering that most force is when the string is at right angles to the tonearm, you can adjust where the tracking force is greatest, as the tonearm moves acoss the record. For cartridge alignment, loosen the screws on the base, and slide it until the stylus aligns with you preferred alignment/protractor. This is much easier than many tonearms where you need to slide the cartridge in the headshell. 1
audiofeline Posted March 17 Posted March 17 Given the age of the turntable, I would be wary of the quality of the styli, it's likely that it's worn. I would suggest getting a new replacement styli so you know you will be protecting your records. 1
stevoz Posted March 18 Posted March 18 Great TT, great arm and definitely a great cartridge. What's not to love? Keep it all! Maybe send the cart to @cafe latte in Queensland for an inspection/test, if it's fine but the stylus is stuffed, get a boron/microridge combo fitted and it will be one of the sweetest carts you've ever heard. 3
HonkyFonk Posted March 18 Author Posted March 18 Thanks all for the input! yes I do have the cover for the belt/pulley, so I think everything is complete. I bought a new belt and fitted it and it all runs nicely, slightly fast, I counted 33&1/3 in 59sec - any ideas how this is adjusted? I think I’ll try and get the calibrations correct using the AKG cart and a less precious record before moving to the grace. Thanks for the cafe latte tip! 2
Spinspin69 Posted March 18 Posted March 18 I know the salesman that sold it to you. He would have sold it to you with the goal of ensuring you enjoy yourself rather than just box moving. That turntable is definitely treasure, especially compared to the P1. 2
HonkyFonk Posted March 18 Author Posted March 18 15 hours ago, Spinspin69 said: I know the salesman that sold it to you. He would have sold it to you with the goal of ensuring you enjoy yourself rather than just box moving. That turntable is definitely treasure, especially compared to the P1. Yes I got lucky, it’s appreciated when someone points you in the right direction! now what do you think I should replace these cruddy feet with?
Spinspin69 Posted March 18 Posted March 18 9 minutes ago, HonkyFonk said: Yes I got lucky, it’s appreciated when someone points you in the right direction! now what do you think I should replace these cruddy feet with? There's a million options online. Whatever you select, I recommend something with some vibration dampening and height adjustment (makes levelling the turntable so much easier).
ReliaBill EngR Posted March 19 Posted March 19 The Grace F-9E and F-9L are the same cartridge, except the L has a gold body. The L stylus is a LC cut, better than the E elliptical stylus. I have both. The stylus suspensions are subject to turning very soft over time, resulting in collapse. I bought a Jico SAS/B for mine, much better than the uber-expensive SoundSmith styli. It’s a better stylus than the original Grace E or L styli. 1
Ian McP Posted March 20 Posted March 20 manuals https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sme/3009.shtml https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php?m=Grace&mod=F9&t=any&sort=2&Search=Search&sty=&ovlo=&ovhi=&can=&dclo=&dchi=&stid=&masslo=&masshi=¬es=&prlo=&prhi= https://www.vinylengine.com/library/grace/f-9.shtml 1
HonkyFonk Posted March 20 Author Posted March 20 15 minutes ago, Ian McP said: manuals https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sme/3009.shtml https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php?m=Grace&mod=F9&t=any&sort=2&Search=Search&sty=&ovlo=&ovhi=&can=&dclo=&dchi=&stid=&masslo=&masshi=¬es=&prlo=&prhi= https://www.vinylengine.com/library/grace/f-9.shtml Brilliant! Thank you! Some reading to do there. I had a look at sound smith and it looks like they offer 3 levels of stylus for the grace.
ReliaBill EngR Posted March 26 Posted March 26 IMO, the SAS/B looks like it belongs on the F-9. The SoundSmith looks like a locomotive snow plow.. Extruded aluminum with holes drilled. The SAS/B sounds phenomenal! 1
stevoz Posted March 27 Posted March 27 On 20/03/2025 at 1:36 AM, ReliaBill EngR said: The Grace F-9E and F-9L are the same cartridge, except the L has a gold body. The L stylus is a LC cut, better than the E elliptical stylus. I have both. The stylus suspensions are subject to turning very soft over time, resulting in collapse. I bought a Jico SAS/B for mine, much better than the uber-expensive SoundSmith styli. It’s a better stylus than the original Grace E or L styli. Big claim.....but I have no evidence to dispute it.
ReliaBill EngR Posted March 31 Posted March 31 (edited) I have both cartridges and NOS original styli, so it’s not a big claim. Edited March 31 by ReliaBill EngR 1
stevoz Posted March 31 Posted March 31 (edited) 3 hours ago, ReliaBill EngR said: I have both cartridges and NOS original styli, so it’s not a big claim. As I did say, I have no evidence to dispute it.....and I guess it's more about stylus profile. Edited March 31 by stevoz
ReliaBill EngR Posted April 2 Posted April 2 I wouldn’t say it’s just stylus profile. The Jico has a very good fit, and a proven suspension also. The Grace cantilevers are aluminum, yet present a very low mass at the stylus tip. The Jico is even lower mass, using the boron cantilever. The Jico pulls a lot more detail from the grooves than the original Grace styli, yet still has all that very-near-MC quality to it. 1
stevoz Posted April 3 Posted April 3 (edited) On 03/04/2025 at 8:40 AM, ReliaBill EngR said: I wouldn’t say it’s just stylus profile. The Jico has a very good fit, and a proven suspension also. The Grace cantilevers are aluminum, yet present a very low mass at the stylus tip. The Jico is even lower mass, using the boron cantilever. The Jico pulls a lot more detail from the grooves than the original Grace styli, yet still has all that very-near-MC quality to it. Good to know. I got my F9 sans cantilever so I never heard how the original sounded anyway and eventually got a boron/microridge combo fitted courtesy of @cafe latte and it sounds wonderful.....but I've always been curious about the Jico SAS. Edited April 4 by stevoz
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