ericd Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Out of frustration I am posting this regarding BusiSoft, and SimAudio support. In a nutshell, my Moon CD player had a fault with it's LCD display. Everything else worked and it played CDs. but I thought I'd see what it would cost to get it fixed. BIG MISTAKE!! I dropped off a working CD player that simply had a faulty LCD display. I made it quite clear in all of my communications that the issue with the player was minor, and I was not wanting to spend any significant amount of money. 6 months later, between BusiSoft, JLS repairs, and SimAudio, I have a CD player sitting in Canada, and being told I will be charged $850- costs which I never authorised and to be honest more than what this legacy unit is now worth (Moon CD1/260D). At no point did I authorise for the unit to be returned to Canada, and I specifically asked for it not to be sent once this was mentioned, which was ignored. I also made repeated requests to be given a quote for the repair, again I was not given any quote nor asked to authorise anything above the initial JLS inspection fee. I don't feel great about posting this publicly as the person who has been updating me is just doing their job and passing on the info. There is some suggestion now that BusiSoft and SimAudio are arguing about this. I hope that they work it out between them, after 6 months this whole experience has been a massive PITA.
Antipodean Brad Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Who told you that it would cost that much? Busisoft or Simaudio? Have you been in touch with Simaudio and explained this to them? If they have been involved without knowing your intructions they may just be nice enough to do the work necessary (!) and return it to you free of charge. Yes, I know I am being hopeful. 1
ericd Posted February 4 Author Posted February 4 I did contact SimAudio but they just directed me back to Busisoft. That was before this cost was ever mentioned though, so maybe I could try again. Busisoft told me that cost, but that was what SimAudion were telling them. From what I can gather, SimAudio have done the repair, despite the fact I never was asked or given a quote! 1
Antipodean Brad Posted February 4 Posted February 4 It sounds like clarifying that with Simaudio is the next step, plus ensuring that they understand that sending the item to them and them doing the work was against your instructions. They need to be well aware that Busisoft have undertaken the process of sending it and having them do the work, not you. Good luck, and do let us know what happens. 2
David A Posted February 4 Posted February 4 (edited) If you go significantly out of pocket one way or another due to unauthorised actions and unecessary work on your player, that sounds like clear grounds to file a claim to me. You'd be filing a claim in the Small Claims Tribunal in your State. There are some costs to file a claim, but nowhere near the numbers you mentioned. First step though, I'd check the repairer's t's&c's to see if you they've snuck a clause in to give themselves an out. But their t's&c's still have to comply with the Fair Trading Act. The bottom line is stand your ground & don't let them off the hook. Edited February 4 by David A 6
bob_m_54 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Personally, I wouldn't even bother contacting the manufacturer, nor the distributor. Your claim lies with the repairer, who you left the CD player with, and gave instructions to. This is a big problem with repairers who don't actually repair stuff anymore. They just want to either replace a module, or send it back to the manufacturer, if that is an option. If they can't do that, then they usually tell you it's not repairable. 5
muon* Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Yeah, deal with the person you sent it to, then get Fair Trading involved, or It's equivalent depending on where you are.. 4
parrasaw Posted February 4 Posted February 4 (edited) 9 hours ago, David A said: You'd be filing a claim in the Small Claims Tribunal in your State. There are some costs to file a claim, but nowhere near the numbers you mentioned. An alternative to filing a Small Claims action (with your local court), is to contact the equivalent of Fair Trading NSW in your state, and then following the matter up by lodging an application with the Civil and Administrative Tribunal in your state to hear the matter. In many states, Small claims matters such as yours are often referred over to the Civil and Administrative Tribunals anyway. Just read @muon*'s reply. I agree! You have a record of your correspondence, and I am hopeful that should enable you to get the desired response, given the number of things which occurred which you didn't ask for/specifically asked not to be done/didn't authorise etc. It would assists others to help you (if you wish) to post your State/Territory. - if it is Victoria (as I suspect from the reference to a "JLS"), VCAT are very good to deal with. Good luck. Edited February 4 by parrasaw 5
ericd Posted February 4 Author Posted February 4 (edited) 45 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: Personally, I wouldn't even bother contacting the manufacturer, nor the distributor. Your claim lies with the repairer, who you left the CD player with, and gave instructions to. This is a big problem with repairers who don't actually repair stuff anymore. They just want to either replace a module, or send it back to the manufacturer, if that is an option. If they can't do that, then they usually tell you it's not repairable. Yeah, this is kind if the problem and in hindsight I wish I had taken it directly to the repairer rather than through the distributor- they would probably have just told me they can’t fix it and that would have been that. It is only because the distributor offered to courier it to the authorised repairer that they are involved at all. Before all this I took it to a local repairer as it’s out of warranty, but he needed the schematics which of course the manufacturer wouldn’t provide. I should have trusted my first instinct which was to just live with the faulty display (which was damaged during a thunderstorm, just to be clear it wasn’t a defect, but again, I never asked or expected the repair to be done under warranty). Hindsight is great, isn’t it Edited February 4 by ericd 1
parrasaw Posted February 5 Posted February 5 1 hour ago, ericd said: Before all this I took it to a local repairer as it’s out of warranty, but he needed the schematics which of course the manufacturer wouldn’t provide. I think that this was a sensible course of action on your part - taking an out of warranty unit to a repairer, and that Moon's actions (to refuse providing the schematics ) were very suspect. Schematics are a basic requirement for enabling repairs to be done. If they wished someone else to do the work, they should have specified someone else, and provided schematics etc. Don't be tough on yourself - this could have happened to anyone here on StereoNET, when acting in good faith as you appear to have done. Not a good look for the distributor or manufacturer!! 4
ericd Posted February 5 Author Posted February 5 12 minutes ago, parrasaw said: If they wished someone else to do the work, they should have specified someone else, and provided schematics etc. Just for the sake of clarity, JLS are the authorised repairers which is why it went to them via the distributor. They were not able to fix it here- at that point I should have been asked if I wanted it returned to me in its initial state, but it was sent to Simaudio in Canada without my permission. I would have preferred my local guy in the first place if the schematics had been made available.
doogie44 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 I had a similar issue and needed the help of Busisoft. Let's just say that it was an epic fail on multiple levels over a sustained interval. Most concerning was the complete ignoring--despite calls, direct messages and such. I only wanted advice. I finally got my item sorted via the original retailer (who longer uses Busisoft). Draw your own conclusions. 1
andyr Posted February 5 Posted February 5 16 hours ago, ericd said: Out of frustration I am posting this regarding BusiSoft, and SimAudio support. In a nutshell, my Moon CD player had a fault with its LCD display. Everything else worked and it played CDs. but I thought I'd see what it would cost to get it fixed. BIG MISTAKE!! Aah, sad, Cameron. What a miserable can of worms. 2
David A Posted February 5 Posted February 5 2 hours ago, parrasaw said: An alternative to filing a Small Claims action (with your local court), is to contact the equivalent of Fair Trading NSW in your state, and then following the matter up by lodging an application with the Civil and Administrative Tribunal in your state to hear the matter. To clarify, I never mentioned going to Court. I referred to the Small Claims Tribunal in their State, such as VCAT in Victoria. 1
parrasaw Posted February 5 Posted February 5 54 minutes ago, David A said: To clarify, I never mentioned going to Court. I referred to the Small Claims Tribunal in their State, such as VCAT in Victoria. Thanks David. In Victoria, small claims can be lodged with either the local court, or with VCAT. If you were writing about going to VCAT, then we were writing about the same thing, and in my opinion, that is the way to go for the OP if he is unable to get the matter sorted fairly quickly and easily with the other party/parties. 2
Administrator StereoNET Posted February 5 Administrator Posted February 5 As I understand it - Simaudio have become aware of this thread and have already contacted Busisoft regarding this matter today. That is all I know. Sounds like something may be in motion even if not apparent yet. 7
ericd Posted February 5 Author Posted February 5 That would be nice. I was told they were discussing it as I mentioned in the first post, but I don't think I can be blamed for a dash of scepticism after 6 months of back and forth. Fingers crossed. 3
audiofeline Posted February 5 Posted February 5 It is a very poor form for a manufacturer not to release a service manual for their products. It either reflects great insecurity, paranoia, and/or an intention for monetary control. It's especially poor form when the manufacture is overseas, there is a token local service agent, and expects their products to be shipped to them at great expense and time. If I was aware of this structure I would avoid buying their product, it's not as if there isn't a lot of good alternate equipment to buy. 2 1
bob_m_54 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 2 hours ago, audiofeline said: It is a very poor form for a manufacturer not to release a service manual for their products. It either reflects great insecurity, paranoia, and/or an intention for monetary control. It's especially poor form when the manufacture is overseas, there is a token local service agent, and expects their products to be shipped to them at great expense and time. If I was aware of this structure I would avoid buying their product, it's not as if there isn't a lot of good alternate equipment to buy. It's quite common with a lot of manufacturers. You have to be an authorised repair agent for them to release tech data to you. Used to be a pain in the butt when I was in the repair industry. But there was an unnoficial repair manual library, that you could hire the manual from for about $12.00 for a fortnight. The only thing they stipulated was that you didn't dissasemble the photo copied manuals when you copied them.. 2
Addicted to music Posted February 5 Posted February 5 You need to keep copies of all correspondence via email and what was agreed upon, hence the reason email is the best for evidence, otherwise its he said/she said! Deal with the initial contact and sometimes if its not satisfactory go further up the chain... I had to contact the distributor and the Brand to resolve an issue that was intermittent fault on a brand new item i paid for and as soon as it was unboxed and placed in the rig it would tripped the speaker protection... I could fix it myself but why bother when its straight out of the box and under warranty. The retailer and there tech were going to send it back to me with the same fault as they reckon they had tested it without issues for 2wks. I was addiment that i wont accept a item thats tripping a speaker protection, either its fixed with a record of work done, replace it with a brand new one out of the box or a full refund was accepted. in the end I contacted the Brand and they sorted it out! 1 1
ericd Posted February 5 Author Posted February 5 Update, Simaudio have contacted me overnight and acknowledged there is a problem. So hopefully this can still be sorted fairly and amicably. 15 1
ericd Posted Monday at 08:31 AM Author Posted Monday at 08:31 AM I have now heard from SimAudio/Moon and BusiSoft, and pleased to report that the CD player will be fully repaired and returned to me at no cost to myself. Although obviously (as evident in my first post!) it was getting a little frustrating: credit where credit is due as both parties have quickly reached a solution once the situation was properly looked into. Including a phone call from the CFO of BusiSoft apologising for the situation, which I thought was a good response. Thanks all for your interest and messages offering support and advice, really appreciated and it was reassuring to know I was not being unreasonable. Obviously it will take some time to be returned from Canada, but I feel reassured that the situation has been sorted out. Will post a photo once the unit is back home! Cheers! 17 1
parrasaw Posted Monday at 07:55 PM Posted Monday at 07:55 PM 11 hours ago, ericd said: I have now heard from SimAudio/Moon and BusiSoft, and pleased to report that the CD player will be fully repaired and returned to me at no cost to myself. Although obviously (as evident in my first post!) it was getting a little frustrating: credit where credit is due as both parties have quickly reached a solution once the situation was properly looked into. Including a phone call from the CFO of BusiSoft apologising for the situation, which I thought was a good response. Thanks all for your interest and messages offering support and advice, really appreciated and it was reassuring to know I was not being unreasonable. Obviously it will take some time to be returned from Canada, but I feel reassured that the situation has been sorted out. Will post a photo once the unit is back home! Cheers! Terrific news, and I agree with you - a great response from both Sim Audio and BusiSoft. 1
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