Burakbekar Posted January 25 Posted January 25 Hi everyone. I hope you are all doing ok. My first message here. This is Burak here. İ am 41 years old and live in Turkey, Istanbul. First of all i am sorry for my English. Hope you understand. İ am captain pilot in an airway. New to music world. Setting up a vintage TT setup and modern setup for digital music. Vintage Setup Sony PS-8750 Turn Table Sony TA-F6B Integrated Stereo Amplifier Sony TC-K7B Cassette Player Sony ST-A6B Tuner JBL L110 Speaker Marantz 6300 Turn Table Klipsch Heresy 2 Speakers Modern Setup Audiolab 9000N Streamer Audiolab 9000A Integrated Stereo Amplifier Vincent SV-238 Dual-mono amplifier Monitor Audio Gold 500 6G Speakers Home Theater Lexicon RV-9 AV Reciever As a beginner, I have learned a lot from here so far. Overally i am all happy with my systrm. My next plan is upgrading to mono block system. İn Turkey i have 3 options for my 130-600 watt, 4 ohm Monitor Audios. PS Audio Stellar M700 700 watt (3000$) NuPrime ST-10M 375 watt (3200$) Cary Audio Cad 500 MB with its pre SLP05. 1000watt (11.400$) i am leaning to PS Audio. İf i can find its gold pre-amp that will be good. My importance is same series at a specific brand. İ can buy a second Audiolab 9000A but it 160w. Do you have any opinions? İf i buy one of the list above, i will have to use them with 9000A’s pre-amp feauture. Cary Audio is so expensive. And it is not a new era product as i set my digital music setup from modern devices. The Vincent sv-238 is a dual mono. İ wonder if i can realize the difference with a mono-block setup. 1
muon* Posted January 25 Posted January 25 (edited) HI Which Monitor Audios speakers do you have? Edit: BTW your English is great Edited January 25 by muon* 2
muon* Posted January 25 Posted January 25 Amplifiers system be they mono block of mono but in the same chassis benefit from the separation of power supplies and signal circuits, so in theory things like separation should be a bit better. If the Monitor Audio speakers are current hungry with low impedance and difficult phase, then amplification that is very capable of delivering the needed current is what to aim for, these usually have very beefy power supplies. 1
Burakbekar Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 Monitor Audio Gold 500 6G @muon* thanks for reply. 2
Burakbekar Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 (edited) So the ps audio stellar m700 is the better choice @muon* ? but my concern, PS audio stellar gold pre-amp is not yet available on second hand here. İs it a problem to use m700 monos with Audiolab 9000A integrated as pre-amp for a while? first two audiolab second monitor audio last ones ps audio Edited January 25 by Burakbekar
muon* Posted January 25 Posted January 25 1 minute ago, Burakbekar said: So the ps audio stellar m700 is the better choice @muon* ? but my concern, PS audio stellar gold pre-amp is not yet available on second hand here. İs it a problem to use m700 monos with Audiolab 9000A integrated as pre-amp for a while? Monitor Audio state Minimum Impedance (20Hz to 20kHz) 4 Ohms @ 150 Hz https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/product-ranges/gold-series-6g/gold-500-6g/ So should not present any issues with any amplification that can happily drive 4ohms. 1 1
muon* Posted January 25 Posted January 25 I'd wait and see if any owners of speakers like yours have other recommendations. There is so much out there to choose from. 1
muon* Posted January 25 Posted January 25 21 minutes ago, Cafad said: Just for reference. Is that phase bad, Cafad? I have never bothered to understand the phase part.
Burakbekar Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 @Cafad thanks so much for reply. İs that graphic belongs to any of my devices? what does it mean? İ’m so sorry for my lack of technical knowledge.
muon* Posted January 25 Posted January 25 It's you speakers, the bottom line is impedance and the top one is phase.
Cafad Posted January 25 Posted January 25 1 hour ago, muon* said: Is that phase bad, Cafad? I have never bothered to understand the phase part. I'm not so good myself. The impedance doesn't seem so bad, certain better than pretty much anything by KEF. The phase angle though, I'll have to let someone else chime in on that I'm afraid, I did look all that up but it was many years ago. 1
xlr8or Posted January 25 Posted January 25 What's important to follow with the frequency response curve are minimum impedance regions not coinciding with any significant phase angle shifts. This implies you need more current if both low impedance and phase angle shifts occur simultaneously. The fact that most phase angle shifts coincide with higher impedance values suggests a good 4-ohm amp will suffice - i. e., 2 ohm loads aren't required from the power amp. We are of course talking about the speakers you own. That's the key in determining the power and load requirements needed in the amp to drive the speakers adequately and most importantly comfortably. 3
Burakbekar Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 @xlr8or so you mean i need a powerful amp like over 500 watts at 4 ohm?
xlr8or Posted January 25 Posted January 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Burakbekar said: @xlr8or so you mean i need a powerful amp like over 500 watts at 4 ohm? If you look under the specifications tab at the following link, the manufacturer suggests using anything from 130 to 600 watts. 300 watts @ 4 ohm appears to be ideal. I'd be looking for a second hand SS amp that has those specifications. https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/product-ranges/gold-series-6g/gold-500-6g/ Edited January 25 by xlr8or
Burakbekar Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 (edited) Thank you @xlr8or while i was searching web for mono-blocks like PS Audio Stellar M700 700 watt NuPrime ST-10M 375 watt Audiolab 9000p 380watts (fits my 9000N and 9000A as pre-amp) i read some reviews telling rather than buying average degree mono-blocks, i had better getting a decent dual-mono amp like Karan KA S-400 or Gryphon Antileon (maybe the signature version) with their own pre-amps. İt is mentioned that these dual-monos provides better soundstage, imaging, detail, resolution etc. than average mono-blocks. I am so confused now. Edited January 25 by Burakbekar
xlr8or Posted January 25 Posted January 25 1 minute ago, Burakbekar said: Thank you @xlr8or while i was searching web for mono-blocks like PS Audio Stellar M700 700 watt NuPrime ST-10M 375 watt i read some reviews telling rather than buying average degree mono-blocks, i had better getting a decent dual-mono amp like Karan KA S-400 or Gryphon Antileon (maybe the signature version) with their own pre-amps. İt is mentioned that these dual-monos provides better soundstage, imaging, detail, resolution etc. than average mono-blocks. I am so confused now. The best thing to do is listen to some of these amps with your own speakers, if that option is also available. Allow your ears to be the judge of what sounds best. 2 1
billstevenson Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Everyone is making this too difficult for you. Your Klipsch Heresy speakers are very easy speakers to drive. Any of the amplifiers you are looking at would drive them easily. If you like the PS Audio, which is a fine product, go for it. You will be OK to use your existing preamp for now and upgrade to a matching PS Audio one when you find one. No problem at all. And this plan gives you a good path forward for a meaningful upgrade in the future. Good luck. 1 1
muon* Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 6 hours ago, billstevenson said: Everyone is making this too difficult for you. Your Klipsch Heresy speakers are very easy speakers to drive. Any of the amplifiers you are looking at would drive them easily. If you like the PS Audio, which is a fine product, go for it. You will be OK to use your existing preamp for now and upgrade to a matching PS Audio one when you find one. No problem at all. And this plan gives you a good path forward for a meaningful upgrade in the future. Good luck. The OP ask about amplification for his Monitor Audio Gold 500 6G speakers, not Klipsch Heresy speakers. Edited February 5 by muon* typo 1 1
almikel Posted February 5 Posted February 5 On 25/01/2025 at 9:11 PM, Cafad said: I'm not so good myself. The impedance doesn't seem so bad, certain better than pretty much anything by KEF. The phase angle though, I'll have to let someone else chime in on that I'm afraid, I did look all that up but it was many years ago. On 25/01/2025 at 9:20 PM, xlr8or said: What's important to follow with the frequency response curve are minimum impedance regions not coinciding with any significant phase angle shifts. This implies you need more current if both low impedance and phase angle shifts occur simultaneously. The fact that most phase angle shifts coincide with higher impedance values suggests a good 4-ohm amp will suffice - i. e., 2 ohm loads aren't required from the power amp. We are of course talking about the speakers you own. That's the key in determining the power and load requirements needed in the amp to drive the speakers adequately and most importantly comfortably. ^this A zero phase angle means the voltage and current are in phase producing maximum power in the load - this would be a purely resistive load...ie not typical speakers. When the phase angle is not zero, the phase angle shows whether the speaker is presenting a capacitive load (negative phase angle - current leading the voltage) or an inductive load (positive phase angle - current lagging the voltage) to the amplifier. For both a positive phase angle and a negative phase angle, the amp needs to deliver more current (amps) to deliver the same power (in watts) compared to a purely resistive load, because the voltage and current are not in phase. Phase angles that vary around +/- 30 degrees are typical for box speakers. Phase angle is the same as what electricity providers term "power factor", ie the ratio between real power delivered (watts) to apparent power (measured in volt-amperes). It's a measure of how effectively electrical power is being used. A large phase angle (positive or negative) is the same as a poor power factor. High phase angles/poor power factors mean large currents are required to be delivered by the source with lower "actual" power consumed by the load. Power companies monitor this closely and require consumers with highly reactive loads (capacitive or inductive) to add compensation to bring their loads closer to purely resistive (ie better power factor)... ...as per what @xlr8or says above, combining a large phase angle with a low impedance is a double whammy - the amp has to deliver more current (amps) when the speaker impedance drops, and if the phase angle is large in the same region, even more current (amps) is required from the amp without "actual" power being consumed by the speaker. Mike 3
billstevenson Posted February 5 Posted February 5 "The OP ask about amplification for his Monitor Audio Gold 500 6G speakers, not Klipsch Heresy speakers." I stand corrected. But you guys are still making it too hard on a guy just starting out. The Stellar amp will work just fine. 1
Burakbekar Posted Thursday at 06:47 PM Author Posted Thursday at 06:47 PM (edited) @xlr8or with my speakers it is not possible now. İ’ve found a second hand gryphon antileon signature and gryphon mirage. İ had the chance to listen it. also i read good reviews about audiolab 9000q and 9000p (mono-bridge) has better imaging, soundstage than my 9000A intagrated. This solution will be cheaper. @billstevenson i will sell the heresy 2s as they are so weak on bass performance. İ will keep jbl l110 with my vintage setup for TT. İ am looking for a better amp for my digital setup audiolab 9000N streamer listening qobuz. @almikel thank you for detailed explanation. İ will use translate to understand clearly. And look for some technical knowledge. ——- at the and, i changed my options to 3. replacing audiolab 9000a with 9000q pre and 2 mono block bridge 9000p Gryphon Antileon Signature and Gryphon Mirage Karan KA S400 with Karan KA L MK3 —— thank you all for replies. Edited Thursday at 06:47 PM by Burakbekar 2
almikel Posted Sunday at 08:41 AM Posted Sunday at 08:41 AM On 06/02/2025 at 12:54 AM, billstevenson said: I stand corrected. But you guys are still making it too hard on a guy just starting out. The Stellar amp will work just fine. agreed!! @Burakbekar - don't ignore EQ capability in your journey - I find it very useful! For me, adjusting EQ makes way more difference to the "in room sound" than the brand or specs of the amp, assuming reasonably good amplification that's not being pushed to its limits. Mike
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