riswadi Posted January 16 Posted January 16 Hi all, I'm new here and one of the valued member direct me to this forum section regarding my question. Hopefully you guys can share those "expensive yet very rewarding experiences" I'm looking to buy a new DAC for my second system, it will be paired with my Vitus SCD-010, as a transport, Vitus RI-101 integrated amp and German Physiks speakers. Within the same brand, so far I have only listen to PS Audio Gaincell DAC which I own, Ideon Ayazi MK2 and Ideon Absolute DAC Meta Edition demo units which both unfortunately are in the lowest and highest spectrum of Ideon price bracket. I am planning to have a listen to Aries Cerat Kassandra LE or Ithaka, both are way beyond my budget, but I have no other option since that's what available for demo. No demo unit available for PS Audio Directstream DAC MKII and Lampizator to try. Hence I seek guidance from fellow hobbyists here. Sorry in advance for grammatical error since English is not my first language. Thanks so much
Snoopy8 Posted January 16 Posted January 16 to the forum (and your English is fine!) What is your budget in either USD or AUD (most members are in Australia)? And is there a preference from a ladder DAC or delta sigma? And what is the issue with the Vitus SCD 010 that makes you want to add a DAC to it? 1
David A Posted January 16 Posted January 16 6 hours ago, Snoopy8 said: And what is the issue with the Vitus SCD 010 that makes you want to add a DAC to it? The SCD-010 is a cd player fyi. 1
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 16 Volunteer Posted January 16 18 minutes ago, David A said: The SCD-010 is a cd player fyi. It does have analog out though, doesn't it? So I guess the below question is reasonable (esp given that I'd expect Vitus to utilise a superb D/A conversion in any of their CD players) 6 hours ago, Snoopy8 said: And what is the issue with the Vitus SCD 010 that makes you want to add a DAC to it? 1
David A Posted January 16 Posted January 16 @riswadi I'm just guessing at your budget. But I'd suggest the APL Hifi DSD-SR-SE dac which is a very natural and analogue-sounding dac. In my auditions, i've also found Vitus and APL have good synergy - https://www.aplhifi.com/products/dsd-sr-mk2/ And just to throw a curve ball at you, have you considered upgrading to the current Vitus SCD-025Mk2 cdp? As an owner of that player, I can tell you from experience it is a significant upgrade from your older SCD-010. Also, due to Phillips ending production of the CD Pro-2 LF transport mech, Vitus are transitioning to the better Suos HIfi CD Pro8 transport. The CD Pro8 was designed by ex-Phillips engineers who designed the original CD Pro-2 mech, then improved on it. You can read about it in this article - https://www.vitusaudio.com/blog/suos-hifi-cd-pro8-vs-phillips-cd-pro-2/ Hope that helps. 1
David A Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) 3 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: It does have analog out though, doesn't it? Yes It does. If the post had've read "And what is the issue with the Vitus SCD 010 that makes you want to run it as a transport with an external dac?", instead of "And what is the issue with the Vitus SCD 010 that makes you want to add a DAC to it?" (given the SCD-010 is not a CD transport), I wouldn't have commented. Edited January 16 by David A 1
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 16 Volunteer Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, David A said: Yes It does. If the post have read "And what is the issue with the Vitus SCD 010 that makes you want to use it as a transport with an external dac?", instead of "And what is the issue with the Vitus SCD 010 that makes you want to add a DAC to it?" (given the SCD-010 is not a CD transport), I wouldn't have responded. it has digital outputs too, so it could be used as a transport. So I read the question as I'm guessing it was meant (that is, given the thingie has both analog and digital outputs, what's the issue with its analog outputs that makes you want to use a separate DAC) 2
David A Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) 2 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: it has digital outputs too, so it could be used as a transport I wasn't commenting on the features of the player. I was just providing clarification for what, in retrospect, was a vaguely worded post. Edited January 16 by David A 1
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 16 Volunteer Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, David A said: I wasn't commenting on the features of the player. I was just providing clarification for what, in retrospect, was a confusingly worded post. I've clarified what I think the question was. Not at all confusing IMHO EDIT: anyhooo. I'm more interested in why @riswadi seems to not want to use the analog-out from the unit? 2
David A Posted January 16 Posted January 16 1 minute ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I've clarified what I think the question was. Not at all confusing IMHO Now we're getting into semantics I think. Shall we move on? 2
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted January 16 Volunteer Posted January 16 1 minute ago, David A said: Shall we move on? 2 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: EDIT: anyhooo. I'm more interested in why @riswadi seems to not want to use the analog-out from the unit? on the same page 2
riswadi Posted January 16 Author Posted January 16 Dear all thanks so much for all the response I'm hoping to make my Vitus CDP sounds better, besides since it's in my bedroom having a DAC helps so I can connect my TV and streamer to it, as well as game consoles. 1
riswadi Posted January 16 Author Posted January 16 (edited) To answer David A question, I don't have a plan, at least not yet , to upgrade my CDP since it's only for bedroom system. For my main system I have T+A PDT 3100HV transport and SD 3100HV streaming DAC. Btw Snoopy A thanks so much Sorry all, I couldn't reply earlier, life gets in the way So I'm wondering which DAC that could make my CDP and other home entertainment systems sound better within the budget of USD 10K or probably just a little bit more? Thanks guys Edited January 16 by riswadi Error 2
David A Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) @riswadi The Soulnote D-2 dac + matching X-3 clock would be within your budget on a deal. Though i'm not sure about their synergy with Vitus. I'd definitely advocate getting into hifi stores to audition gear, along with attending hifi shows and local GTG's hosted by audiophiles in your neck of the woods. There is no substitute for ear time. Edited January 16 by David A typo 2
riswadi Posted January 16 Author Posted January 16 57 minutes ago, David A said: @riswadi The Soulnote D-2 dac + matching X-3 clock would be within your budget on a deal. Though i'm not sure about their synergy with Vitus. I'd definitely advocate getting into hifi stores to audition gear, along with attending hifi shows and local GTG's hosted by audiophiles in your neck of the woods. There is no substitute for ear time. Hi David, too bad I'm in Indonesia and they don't have many brands here. I haven't heard about Soulnote until now. I've just spoken with Aries Cerat importer and probably will listen to his stuff next month when everything ready 2
David A Posted January 17 Posted January 17 9 hours ago, riswadi said: Hi David, too bad I'm in Indonesia and they don't have many brands here. I haven't heard about Soulnote until now. I've just spoken with Aries Cerat importer and probably will listen to his stuff next month when everything ready Fair enough. It sounds like you're leaning toward a tube dac in any case. I heard Aries Cerat gear driving a pair of Alsyvox Tintoretto planar speakers at the Australian Hifi Show in Sydney last year & was impressed. The sound was well resolved, transparent, airy, non-fatiguing & offered up a nice neutral sound. The Tintoretto's weren't the last word in bass, but I coudl have sat in that room for hours. 1 1
riswadi Posted January 17 Author Posted January 17 1 hour ago, David A said: Fair enough. It sounds like you're leaning toward a tube dac in any case. I heard Aries Cerat gear driving a pair of Alsyvox Tintoretto planar speakers at the Australian Hifi Show in Sydney last year & was impressed. The sound was well resolved, transparent, airy, non-fatiguing & offered up a nice neutral sound. The Tintoretto's weren't the last word in bass, but I coudl have sat in that room for hours. Not really leaning to tube dac actually, the only tube dac I've listened was Audio Note 4.1, it was ok, not worth with the asking price btw. Never heard Lampi, I don't think they have the distro here, and still waiting for Aries Cerat. I'm interested in PSA Perfectwave Directstream MKII because it converts everything to DSD, kinda curious how it sounds, and also since I own the Gaincell DAC and when I paired it with Unison Research Secondo, a hybrid integrated, sounds so sweet Do you have experienced to DAC that converted everything to DSD, David? Also which tube dac from AC you heard? Was it Helene, Kassandra or perhaps Ithaca?
awayward Posted January 17 Posted January 17 11 minutes ago, riswadi said: Not really leaning to tube dac actually, the only tube dac I've listened was Audio Note 4.1, it was ok, not worth with the asking price btw. Never heard Lampi, I don't think they have the distro here, and still waiting for Aries Cerat. I'm interested in PSA Perfectwave Directstream MKII because it converts everything to DSD, kinda curious how it sounds, and also since I own the Gaincell DAC and when I paired it with Unison Research Secondo, a hybrid integrated, sounds so sweet Do you have experienced to DAC that converted everything to DSD, David? Also which tube dac from AC you heard? Was it Helene, Kassandra or perhaps Ithaca? I own a DirectStream MKII and with the recent free software upgrade the DAC is now a giant killer, I cannot fault it, the sound produced is glorious, and a big bonus with this dac is that there will be free software upgrades every 1 year or so, which are usually substantial improvements, highly recommended!
David A Posted January 17 Posted January 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, riswadi said: Not really leaning to tube dac actually, the only tube dac I've listened was Audio Note 4.1, it was ok, not worth with the asking price btw. Never heard Lampi, I don't think they have the distro here, and still waiting for Aries Cerat. I'm interested in PSA Perfectwave Directstream MKII because it converts everything to DSD, kinda curious how it sounds, and also since I own the Gaincell DAC and when I paired it with Unison Research Secondo, a hybrid integrated, sounds so sweet Do you have experienced to DAC that converted everything to DSD, David? Also which tube dac from AC you heard? Was it Helene, Kassandra or perhaps Ithaca? The Distributor Purasound demo'd the Tintoretto's with an Aries Cerat Aperio integrated amp, Aries Cerat Ithaka dac (which features triode-fet technology), and a Pink Faun 2.16 server/streamer as source. Re: DSD, my Vitus SCD-025Mk2 employs a EngineeRED Q8 stereo synchro upsampler which upsamples all signals first to 384 kHz/24 bits, and only then sends the signal to the two DACs. The player also accepts DSD64 and DSD128 files via USB. Thus far I haven't experimented with downloading any DSD files to a memory stick or HDD to play on my Vitus, so I couldn't comment on that. Based on your above feedback, I think you'd like the earlier-mentioned APL Hifi dac paired with Vitus, which is a solid state dac fyi. My 2c. Edited January 17 by David A
frankn Posted January 17 Posted January 17 You may be limited in the resolution of music you play if only using your Vitus unit as the source. The Vitus digital o/p are s/pdif (looks like rca & XLR). I understand the AD1955 chip supports PCM up to 192 KHz which maybe all you need. The DirectStream mk2 is a great DAC by all accounts. Personally I really like Ted Smith’s work. The DS (both mk 1 & 2) converts any incoming signal to DSD DOP, re-interpret the sample state & re-clock all the samples to the DS internal master clock before any internal upsampling etc. This is the DS mk2 s/pdif input SR handling for S/PDIF (Coax and XLR): PCM 16 and 24 bits at 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz and 192kHz so that works for the output of the Vitus. If you want higher resolution or to input DSD to the Directstream you will need to use USB or i2s and you will need a different input - perhaps your streamer service? There are other manufacturers that also allow direct order such as Holo Audio (May KTE) and Lampazitor etc. and all have their own followers. Some of the manufacturers that have direct order also allow you to audition for a specific amount of time, that may help you, however you have to purchase and then get a refund if you return. It is best to chat to them via email or even a telephone call before you sign up so you exactly what the obligation is. companies like PS Audio, Lampi etc. have good reputations. What are you able to hear in your location, are you in Jakarta?
frankn Posted January 17 Posted January 17 If you are in Jakarta or can go there to audition the Ferrum Audio Wandla and Wandla GSE might be worth a look. SNA did a review : SNA Wandla
riswadi Posted January 17 Author Posted January 17 (edited) 14 hours ago, David A said: The Distributor Purasound demo'd the Tintoretto's with an Aries Cerat Aperio integrated amp, Aries Cerat Ithaka dac (which features triode-fet technology), and a Pink Faun 2.16 server/streamer as source. Re: DSD, my Vitus SCD-025Mk2 employs a EngineeRED Q8 stereo synchro upsampler which upsamples all signals first to 384 kHz/24 bits, and only then sends the signal to the two DACs. The player also accepts DSD64 and DSD128 files via USB. Thus far I haven't experimented with downloading any DSD files to a memory stick or HDD to play on my Vitus, so I couldn't comment on that. Based on your above feedback, I think you'd like the earlier-mentioned APL Hifi dac paired with Vitus, which is a solid state dac fyi. My 2c. Hi David, That Ithaka DAC is €86K at least that's what the dealer told me. Currently I'm still haggling for the Kassandra €26K, since the Ithaka one is way over my budget But I couldn't hear neither, no stock, first I need to put some DP So now I'm still searching for as many DACs that I get my hands on. Do you think Ithaca sounds wayyy better than your Vitus CDP? Or just slightly? I think my Vitus is using similar DAC chip, the difference is my SCD-010 can't decode DSD. Edited January 17 by riswadi
riswadi Posted January 17 Author Posted January 17 (edited) 14 hours ago, David A said: The Distributor Purasound demo'd the Tintoretto's with an Aries Cerat Aperio integrated amp, Aries Cerat Ithaka dac (which features triode-fet technology), and a Pink Faun 2.16 server/streamer as source. Re: DSD, my Vitus SCD-025Mk2 employs a EngineeRED Q8 stereo synchro upsampler which upsamples all signals first to 384 kHz/24 bits, and only then sends the signal to the two DACs. The player also accepts DSD64 and DSD128 files via USB. Thus far I haven't experimented with downloading any DSD files to a memory stick or HDD to play on my Vitus, so I couldn't comment on that. Based on your above feedback, I think you'd like the earlier-mentioned APL Hifi dac paired with Vitus, which is a solid state dac fyi. My 2c. Edited January 17 by riswadi
riswadi Posted January 17 Author Posted January 17 15 hours ago, awayward said: I own a DirectStream MKII and with the recent free software upgrade the DAC is now a giant killer, I cannot fault it, the sound produced is glorious, and a big bonus with this dac is that there will be free software upgrades every 1 year or so, which are usually substantial improvements, highly recommended! Hi awayward, Nice info! What's your DAC before this? Do you think Directstream MKII will make my Vitus cd sounds startlingly better? And when PSA update is it still possible to switch those settings between the old and new updates? What other DACs have you experienced?
riswadi Posted January 17 Author Posted January 17 (edited) 12 hours ago, frankn said: You may be limited in the resolution of music you play if only using your Vitus unit as the source. The Vitus digital o/p are s/pdif (looks like rca & XLR). I understand the AD1955 chip supports PCM up to 192 KHz which maybe all you need. The DirectStream mk2 is a great DAC by all accounts. Personally I really like Ted Smith’s work. The DS (both mk 1 & 2) converts any incoming signal to DSD DOP, re-interpret the sample state & re-clock all the samples to the DS internal master clock before any internal upsampling etc. This is the DS mk2 s/pdif input SR handling for S/PDIF (Coax and XLR): PCM 16 and 24 bits at 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz and 192kHz so that works for the output of the Vitus. If you want higher resolution or to input DSD to the Directstream you will need to use USB or i2s and you will need a different input - perhaps your streamer service? There are other manufacturers that also allow direct order such as Holo Audio (May KTE) and Lampazitor etc. and all have their own followers. Some of the manufacturers that have direct order also allow you to audition for a specific amount of time, that may help you, however you have to purchase and then get a refund if you return. It is best to chat to them via email or even a telephone call before you sign up so you exactly what the obligation is. companies like PS Audio, Lampi etc. have good reputations. What are you able to hear in your location, are you in Jakarta? Hi frankn, Thanks for the suggestion! One of my reason to add a DAC so I can input game consoles etc, currently everything are handled by my streamer through hdmi earc then using coax to Vitus CDP DAC. So Directstream convert all the signals to become DSD as final format? Will they sound softer after those conversions? What other DACs have you heard, I'm planning to listen to some more Ideon this weekend, the 2nd and 3rd pricewise and do some more comparisons with those Ideon I have demoed. A few days ago I listened to Nadac 1 bit, Merason DAC 1 MK2 along with the highest Ideon without the extra clock, with the extra clock the price shoot up to about €70K, and the lowest about €4K. I'm in Jakarta and have demoed those brand mentioned also looking forward to demo some Jadis, CH, Cen Grand, Holo. For Cen Grand n Holo I need to pay in full price to borrow the DAC but too bad no Lampi dealer here, I don't think so. I already contacted PSA dealer but as far I remember they don't have the unit for demo Edited January 17 by riswadi
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