NickofWimbledon Posted January 14 Posted January 14 I hope that regulars here will be patient with my mistakes: this is my first time starting a thread here, but it was politely suggested that this is probably a better way to request answers than clogging up someone else's thread. This won't be brief... Since 1973, nearly 150,000 Linn LP12 turntables have been made, and it seems that many are still in regular use. Linn has since changed almost every part, some several times, and with some there are now multiple options. Some of these changes appear to have been prompted by third-party makers offering something different and some were not. Linn has changed (along with bits I have forgotten): - Bearing Arm Sub-chassis Power supply Motor Corner braces in the plinth Plinth Top plate Baseboard Feet Armboard Springs and grommets Main switch Motor Thrust pad Built-in phono stage (or not) Linn has naturally always treated each latest version as perfect incapable of further improvement etc. Equally, owners are (to put it mildly) passionate about what is best, and which changes mean that it is no longer an LP12. I have used an LP12 for over 30 years and now have 2. One had all Linn parts apart from the cartridge (Lyra), but now has a aluminium/ aluminum plinth and baseboard from Tangerine Audio. The other is fractionally lower spec and is non-standard only in having a baseboard from SRM (which was noticeably better than a Trampolin 2 to our ears in a listening test). I have heard many turntables, but have stuck to LP12s: I can be called a fanboy. Some people have replaced the springs in their LP12 with little elastomer devices. Some are called In-soles, others Taica Gel Bushings B-1 and there is at least one other name, but I have called them all mushrooms here. All are very similar products, and there seems 100% agreement that they dramatically reduce the sensitivity to footfall - some people with bouncy floors found a standard LP12 unusable but found one with mushrooms at least as stable and easy to use as any turntable ever. After all that, my questions are: - 1. Have you ever replaced the springs in your LP12 with any of these elastomer devices/ Insoles/mushrooms? 2. If you have done this, did they change the Sound Quality significantly? 3. If SQ was changed by this change, how? Was it better or worse? 4. If you have fitted mushrooms, roughly what age and specification is your LP12 now? The more detail the better... 5. If you have fitted them, was it easy? 6. If you also removed them and replaced the springs, was that easy? 7. How would you rate your LP12 for Sound Quality against other great turntables you have heard? It may not be the best use of anyone's time explaining to those here that we should not use turntables, that all LP12s are terrible for SQ or very ugly, that someone else's comments prove that they are deaf/ daft , or whatever. 2
andyr Posted January 14 Posted January 14 (edited) 19 hours ago, NickofWimbledon said: I hope that regulars here will be patient with my mistakes: this is my first time starting a thread here, but it was politely suggested that this is probably a better way to request answers than clogging up someone else's thread. It is! 19 hours ago, NickofWimbledon said: Since 1973, nearly 150,000 Linn LP12 turntables have been made, and it seems that many are still in regular use. Linn has since changed almost every part, some several times, and with some there are now multiple options. Some of these changes appear to have been prompted by third-party makers offering something different and some were not. Linn has changed (along with bits I have forgotten): - Bearing Arm Sub-chassis Power supply Motor Corner braces in the plinth Plinth Top plate Baseboard Feet Armboard Springs and grommets Main switch Motor Thrust pad Built-in phono stage (or not) Linn has naturally always treated each latest version as perfect incapable of further improvement etc. Obviously! What do expect from someone from the city that calls a headbutt ... a "Glasgow kiss"? 19 hours ago, NickofWimbledon said: Some people have replaced the springs in their LP12 with little elastomer devices. Some are called In-soles, others Taica Gel Bushings B-1 and there is at least one other name, but I have called them all mushrooms here. I use the LinnArts silicone mushrooms. 19 hours ago, NickofWimbledon said: All are very similar products, and there seems 100% agreement that they dramatically reduce the sensitivity to footfall That's not my experience! They make my 'SkeletaLinn' sound better ... but they increased its sensitivity to footfall. 19 hours ago, NickofWimbledon said: After all that, my questions are: - 1. Have you ever replaced the springs in your LP12 with any of these elastomer devices/ Insoles/mushrooms? Yes. 19 hours ago, NickofWimbledon said: 2. If you have done this, did they change the Sound Quality significantly? 3. If SQ was changed by this change, how? Was it better or worse? Yes - improved SQ. 19 hours ago, NickofWimbledon said: 4. If you have fitted mushrooms, roughly what age and specification is your LP12 now? The more detail the better... My 'SkeletaLinn' started off 12 years ago with: Cirkus bearing, LP12 inner & outer platters Linn 110v Premotec AC motor & belt original Linn (resistor / capacitor) power supply Linn springs and grommets When I replaced the springs with the 'Audio Silente' silicone mushrooms, a couple of years ago, the only Linn components it still had were: Karousel bearing Linn outer platter Linn springs and grommets. 19 hours ago, NickofWimbledon said: 5. If you have fitted them, was it easy? Very easy! 19 hours ago, NickofWimbledon said: 6. If you also removed them and replaced the springs, was that easy? Why would I want to reintroduce the springs? 19 hours ago, NickofWimbledon said: 7. How would you rate your LP12 for Sound Quality against other great turntables you have heard? That I have heard - only the Helix 'One' and 'Two', sound better! Edited January 15 by andyr 2
NickofWimbledon Posted January 14 Author Posted January 14 I think that the phrase "A Glasgow kiss" for a headbutt originated in my youth with Rupert Murdoch's Sun newspaper, which was written/ congealed in London. As a fine lady explained to me, a Glaswegian might say "malky" or "stookie" or various phrases, but never that one. Of course, it may be different now - I am old. You are also the first to reply here - thanks - and the first ever to say that footfall sensitivity got worse. That may reflect how unusual your was. Would you mind elaborating a bit on how it got better for sound quality?
SONDEKNZ Posted January 14 Posted January 14 @andyr Nice reply above. @NickofWimbledon Nick, you know most of my answers from PFM. I will add that I have not noticed any change in foot-fall sensitivity. It seems the same to me. We have a 6-year-old haring around and a (blind) robot vacuum cleaner that uses the "bonk" method to find its way. No foot fall problems - but we are living in a concrete-floored apartment. The LP12 remains most vulnerable to lateral impact IMHO. This is not solved by the mushrooms, but it is much improved via rigid coupling to your chosen support. In other words, whether you are running springs or mushrooms - you need to loose the TrampoLinn feet! As always YMMV. 2
NickofWimbledon Posted January 14 Author Posted January 14 Thanks for this, and for saving me time on double-counting checks.
evgill Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) Hi Nick, also a member on the Green site (or is it now white ) but decided that I'd address it here. I have LP12, Mober Sub, Karousel, Aro. Top Plate is a custom made Serene Ultimate Top Plate (Black, no switch cut out) with Pink Linnk PSU... and for the record nothing I have done is irreversible as I've kept all original parts... First heard about the Audio Silente mushrooms via Facebook LP12 group as posted in my original thread on here, so, to save myself some pain... a cut and paste from 2021. "I’d been seeing reference on the FB LP12 Group page a number of references to a couple of suspensions mod/options… AI Insole Bobbins and Audio Silente Silicone Mushrooms which Lennart Svensson in Sweden offers as alternatives to the traditional spring suspension on his LP12 builds. Lennart favours the Mushrooms and at about $100 delivered to my door in NZ for an easily reversible mod I thought, ‘what the hell’ and went for it… they arrived 2 days into our current lockdown…gee have I got time yep… Spent the morning listening with springs. …after fine tuning the suspension on the jig. Removed base and left it off. Half a dozen discs later and satisfied that it was performing, actually better than previous sans baseplate. Back onto the jig, didn’t bother flipping upside down as Lennart does, simply removed one spring assembly at a time and swapped out for a mushroom, bolted up then moved onto the next two. Made sure the mushrooms were housed correctly in the sub and then simply levelled everything up. Added platter and arm, gave a few taps and fine tuned the level. Back into the system aaaand go… a touch bemused initially. Sounded slightly thick and ever so slightly flat, hmmm. However after about 10 minutes it just seemed to take off (cartridge warmed up maybe). After about an hour and I knew the were there to stay. Bigger soundstage, wider imaging but most importantly speed and tune remains in spades. BONUS… my wife walked past and I didn’t have to say CAREFUL! …zero stylus skip. An interesting side benefit is that the table now feels ‘no nonsense’… no more tapping every other week to check if the suspension is right or not. Less prone to footfall … it feels more ‘substantial’ and cueing the Aro is a total dream". Well over three years later, still in place, ditched the Mober Bearing a couple of years back and replaced with Karousel... and still no desire to test a sprung version again. Clarification on Bobbins and Mushrooms. BOTH are available via Audio Silente as THORENS parts. The Insole are the rubber ones with added parts and then from Lennart the Mushrooms are the Gel Ones with added parts. As has been discovered TAICA B1 are the original items. I purchased a spare set from RS Components. Edited January 16 by evgill typo 2 1
Vinylear Posted January 16 Posted January 16 I fitted Audio Silente mushrooms to my LP12 and noticed that moving the tt will cause the sub platter to move and I needed to move it to realign cartridge.
evgill Posted January 16 Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Vinylear said: I fitted Audio Silente mushrooms to my LP12 and noticed that moving the tt will cause the sub platter to move and I needed to move it to realign cartridge. Hmm. Are you sure you had them seated correctly when you installed them. When sandwiched together the ‘stem’ sits a few mm proud. This then seats in the grommet holes in the sub chassis. Housed correctly they should hold the sub chassis stable when moving 1
Luc Posted January 16 Posted January 16 No 'mushrooms', 90's model with Trampoline and Mober motor speed DC upgrade kit fitted, chunk of timber housing the cart. Sits on a bespoke build bench in an acoustically sealed room with particle board flooring that's been stiffened and then acoustic underlay and then thick pure wool carpet. No kids or robot hoovers are ever allowed in room upon warnings of instant defenestration. SQ? Absolutely fine for my tastes and my old damaged ears. The degrees of improvement I read from other LP12 owners and after listening to a few of them...yeah nah. I'm happy with the small splurge of dollars originally spent on the upgrade. *Have listened to plenty of high end TT's and there's just no way to compare the listening XP to my own gear due to the rest of 'those' TT's and their front ends which in most cases are many many thousands more exxy than my consumer hi-fi set up. It's all relative at the end of day to your listening environment and what you perceive you're hearing. It's what keeps the HiFi industry going isn't it. 4
NickofWimbledon Posted January 16 Author Posted January 16 Thanks @Vinylear Not what I understood from others.
andyr Posted January 16 Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, NickofWimbledon said: Thanks @Vinylear Not what I understood from others. Given the mushrooms fit into the holes in the subchassis where the spring-grommets fit ... I can't quite understand how the armboard can be moved out of place (which would cause the cart to need to be re-aligned) when fitting them? 2
Vinylear Posted January 16 Posted January 16 2 hours ago, evgill said: Hmm. Are you sure you had them seated correctly when you installed them. When sandwiched together the ‘stem’ sits a few mm proud. This then seats in the grommet holes in the sub chassis. Housed correctly they should hold the sub chassis stable when moving Thanks, I'll check. 2
Vinylear Posted January 16 Posted January 16 I should point out I moved house so the Linn wasn't just moved across the room.
andyr Posted January 16 Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Vinylear said: I should point out I moved house so the Linn wasn't just moved across the room. Mmmmm, given that new fact ... I suggest your comment about having to re-position your cart, is irrelevant? 1
Vinylear Posted January 17 Posted January 17 I repositioned the sub assembly using a protractor the cartridge itself was not touched.
Hydrology Posted January 17 Posted January 17 No mushrooms and absolutely zero interest in trying them on my LP12. 1 1
Riddo Posted January 17 Posted January 17 Have mushrooms and have zero interest in removing them! 6 1 1
Tasebass Posted January 18 Posted January 18 Been using Vinyl Passion Blue springs for some time now… no interest in mushrooms … & weights or whatever over the bearing… Tase.
Luc Posted January 18 Posted January 18 On 16/01/2025 at 5:03 PM, andyr said: I'll have what @Luc's having! Too late old fella, I've used it all up. 1
SONDEKNZ Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) On 17/01/2025 at 11:52 AM, Hydrology said: No mushrooms and absolutely zero interest in trying them on my LP12. 4 hours ago, Tasebass said: Been using Vinyl Passion Blue springs for some time now… no interest in mushrooms … & weights or whatever over the bearing… Tase. Chaps, I can relate. Last year, a good mate made me up a new fancy power cord - a secret recipe that only he and another bloke keep to themselves - and insisted that I try it. (Having a fairly sound grasp of the principles of electro-physics, I had absolutely zero interest... ) He raved about the results on his own very costly all NAIM/FRAIM/LINN DMS ISOBARIK system. Evidently, there is quite a bit of secrecy around the shielding and the directions of the internal elements. He shipped it to me in China, all the way from New Zealand. I was expecting nothing, so my low expectation bias should have easily won the day. It did not!!! The new power cord - as thick as one of my fingers - certainly did make a difference! I was quite shocked. There was quite a burn-in journey and went from being initially dreadful and unlistenable (as he told me to expect) to fabulous, over the space of a few weeks. In order to keep my ears honest, I reverted to the original generic power cord for comparison, but the new cord is better. The same new cable remains in-play today. Each to his own... but know that the springless LP12 is an even bigger unexpected game-changer... Edited January 18 by SONDEKNZ 1
andyr Posted January 18 Posted January 18 3 hours ago, Tasebass said: Been using Vinyl Passion Blue springs for some time now… no interest in mushrooms … C'mon, Tony ... you're holding back your SQ! You need to get the max out of your headamp, phono stage & preamp. It's a cheap experiment. 1
Tasebass Posted January 18 Posted January 18 (edited) 41 minutes ago, andyr said: You need to get the max out of your headamp, phono stage & preamp. …oh believe me Andy… …I am!!.. Edited January 18 by Tasebass 1 1
Hydrology Posted January 18 Posted January 18 32 minutes ago, SONDEKNZ said: Each to his own... but know that the springless LP12 is an even bigger unexpected game-changer... There seems to be some hesitation to let this go - I mean that the people that show no interest in these "mushrooms" are constantly told by others they're wrong for not drinking or considering the Kool Aid. I've seen you pop up on many other forums around the interwebs and your intensity in trying to find people to convert is equaled by your ability to question those who won't convert, it almost seems like schilling for the brand. Now, I don't believe you are, but at least accept, for many reasons, why some of us have no desire to take on this "upgrade". I've no doubt those who have them believe it's a step in the right direction and I have no issue reading posts (past and future) about their improvements, but I'm personally very happy as a Linn owner to live and die by the company's ethos. I am more than happy to read more contributions to this thread about their benefits, but I would rather not read posts castrating those who don't or won't consider this upgrade. So let's just move on and discuss their merits (or pitfalls) by actual users. 2
Tasebass Posted January 18 Posted January 18 @SONDEKNZ… BTW have you ever run battery powered gear?? no need for fancy power cables with magic dust that only appears after a couple of weeks.….. just saying!! 1 1
Recommended Posts