dubplate Posted January 9 Posted January 9 I have been pulling my hair out over fuses , my game changer was the QSA blue fuse used to power my airlink balanced unit , great uplift in sound quality, the trouble was adding more blue fuses to various equipment and plugs , in so doing the sound became much quieter and cleaner but also more bleached, my hi fi started to sound almost digital in every respect, I then resorted to installing basic fuses back into equipment and the 13 amp uk plugs but leaving the QSA blue in the cable that powered my balanced unit, this restored the fullness at the expense of some clarity. I almost brought a QSA yellow fuse and the QSA red receptacle uk of course. Enter the Swiss digital fuse box , this box is programmed for the fuse in the equipment, my pre amp takes a 5amp slow blow fuse , the box is programmed to this , you then replace the 5amp fuse with a solid rod 5x 20mm same size as internal fuse in either brass , gold, copper, rhodium or Graphene, I have the graphene in place in my pre amp, which yielded amazing results, the thing with this fuse box is that if it shuts down, you unplug and reset , unlike a £200 to £1500 fuse which you have to replace on my 500 watt amplifier it has 4 15 amp fuses, again I used the fuse box to great effect this’s time with 4 copper rods in place of fuse, the dynamics, clarity, soundstage, prat and drive far exceeds any fuse out there , and is easily reset not replaced, I was very skeptic about the whole process, but having spoken to Mark the director of Vera-Fi Audio, smashing chap , I took the plunge. I will urge anyone to try ,you will be amazed, no I have no affiliation ,I’m just a music nut looking for the best upgrade possible and I believe this is it , just as I did with the QSA fuses , except there are no drawbacks, I’m so taken by this concept I just had to offer my 5 cents worth , this is a truly awesome product. 1
bob_m_54 Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Lots of luck with your insurance company, if the supplied component happens to develop a fault and causes a house fire.. 2
dubplate Posted January 10 Author Posted January 10 As with anything in life there are risks , even with a fuse things can go wrong, the fuse box acts like a fuse and in the case should something go wrong, then it should shut down in much the same way as a fuse or circuit breaker would. According to the developers, it has undergone rigorous testing, so I’m fairly confident with it .
bob_m_54 Posted January 11 Posted January 11 17 hours ago, dubplate said: then it should shut down Yeah, should, would, could... not really a guarantee though eh. Anyway, it depends on whether the device has been approved to take the place of a fuse in the gear you're using it with. Insurance companies will use that against you, when you try to make your claim.
rantan Posted January 11 Posted January 11 17 hours ago, dubplate said: As with anything in life there are risks , even with a fuse things can go wrong, the fuse box acts like a fuse and in the case should something go wrong, then it should shut down in much the same way as a fuse or circuit breaker would. According to the developers, it has undergone rigorous testing, so I’m fairly confident with it Of course, but the difference is that if an approved fuse in an approved situation goes wrong, then you are not liable and your claim won't be automatically rejected for using a non standard and non approved device. Also, the question needs to be asked "is using this device really worth the risk of a home fire claim being rejected?" It may well have undergone "rigorous testing," but who conducted the tests and are they approved for general use to meet legal requirements imposed by government/s? 1
dubplate Posted January 11 Author Posted January 11 It’s a digital controlled circuit breaker, little fuse make similar items for protection and sensing electrical circuits, Denefrips use similar fuse less technology in their DACs etc , my Marantz streamer does not have a fuse but uses something similar. I’ve had my marantz for over 4 years it hasn’t caught fire yet. There are various digital protection products for electronic and electrical devices approved and on sale by the likes of digikey little fuse etc . These things are approved and rather brilliantly adapted for audio use . If they were not safe , they would not be developed or in use in a wide range of applications.
dubplate Posted January 11 Author Posted January 11 As you can see by a the few examples these things exist and is adapted for use in audio equipment, I am enjoying the benefits of having no fuse and some protection in place to realise the true potential of my high system, no it’s not for everyone, I gave it a try , it works, it makes my system sound glorious. In truth I have just had my amplifier fail , the fuses were intact it was the 13 amp uk fuse which blew out and saved the day , this was sent off for repair and the engineer changed the capacitors which were leaking and caused a short, he also changed the bridge rectifier, it is a well known powerful amplifier, but with cheap caps , this happened before I bought the Swiss digital fuse box , the rail fuses didn’t blow at the time, so is still not a guarantee either, in the uk we still have to use fuses in our plugs so at some point something will shut down as in the case of my amplifier. I have it back now and then decided to try the Swiss digital fuse box , great stuff in conjunction with my balanced mains unit , which I have had for 6 years now , that hasn’t blown up my equipment or electrocuted the cat or myself, yet there is a whole array of forums where people deem those things the devils work . Don’t get me wrong safety is paramount, and these things work.
bob_m_54 Posted January 11 Posted January 11 Yes, there are various types of electronic fuses available around the place (including the motor current sensing relays that you linked). But.... are they approved to be used in the manner the Swiss electronic fuse box is touting? That's the question. If a piece of electrical equipment is designed with a fuse in it, then bypassing that fuse with a shorting slug is going to cause a very large loophole for you insurance company to jump through. Anyway, rules are different in the UK to what they are here, so I'm not going to bother chasing up regulations to prove anything to you. But I assume your rules are similar to here, in that all electrical equipment has to be approved by the appropriate agencies, to be legal to use. If they are not, then you run the risk and accept the consequences. 1
POV Posted January 12 Posted January 12 (edited) Fuses sit on the input side of the power supply meaning they are sitting in the circuit prior to transformer, rectifier, filtration, and regulation. Even if the fuse was having some kind of tiny impact on resistance, inductance, or capacitance of the electrical supply side, once it has passed through the transformer or rectifier, been filtered, and been through various stage of voltage regulation it's completely ludicrous to think that there could be any material impact on audio quality. The companies that manufacture, market, and sell these so-called audiophile fuses are charlatans and thieves that either have zero credible understanding of what they are selling or (worse) do understand and are deliberately ripping off their well-meaning, naive customers. The proposition here, to introduce a third-party fuse device at the expense of the fuse that was designed into the component by the engineers that designed and tested the power supply and to then replace the fuse with a solid conductor is quite simply ridiculous. Not only is there objectively zero possibility it will have a positive impact on sound quality, but there is also now the risk of equipment damage or fire that has been introduced for zero gain. If the engineer that designed your power supply concluded that a fuse was required you should leave it alone, and use the fuse supplied by the manufacturer. I shakes me head... Edited January 12 by POV 3
rantan Posted January 12 Posted January 12 7 hours ago, bob_m_54 said: But I assume your rules are similar to here, in that all electrical equipment has to be approved by the appropriate agencies, to be legal to use. If they are not, then you run the risk and accept the consequences. Only an audiophile would even countenance doing this. 1 hour ago, POV said: he proposition here, to introduce a third-party fuse device at the expense of the fuse that was designed into the component by the engineers that designed and tested the power supply and to then replace the fuse with a solid conductor is quite simply ridiculous. Indeed. Notwithstanding this the panoply of audiophile biases over rides any form of logical reasoning and consumers feel that they know more about circuit design than,the original designer/s. 1 hour ago, POV said: Not only is there objectively zero possibility it will have a positive impact on sound quality, but there is also now the risk of equipment damage or fire that has been introduced for zero gain. A very strong indication of confirmation bias is at work here, literally shredding any form of objectivity 2
Keith_W Posted January 12 Posted January 12 On 10/01/2025 at 9:03 PM, dubplate said: According to the developers, it has undergone rigorous testing, so I’m fairly confident with it . I am not going to try to convince you that it's a bad idea. My only suggestion is to run it past your insurance company before you go ahead and do it. Make sure you get their assurances in writing so they can't wriggle their way out of it later. I don't know man, I would not risk millions of dollars in the value of my property and everything in it over something so dubious. But that's just me. You have a different risk calculation, and that's fine. More power to you. Well, maybe not too much power because only God knows what might happen ... 4 1
Addicted to music Posted January 12 Posted January 12 (edited) @Keith_W What are the chances of approval if I asked my insurance company if they will honour my policy if I used a flux capacitor instead of electrolytics…. After all the Dr Emmett Brown in Back to the Future used one and it got Marty home safely Edited January 12 by Addicted to music 1 1
Eggmeister Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Is this it ? https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/fuse-box-swiss-digital
Addicted to music Posted January 12 Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Eggmeister said: Is this it ? https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/fuse-box-swiss-digital you see the line going down that page, that should raise many red flags
Eggmeister Posted January 12 Posted January 12 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g6lx1aaTpsxoW56mX6YzbJCqu8RckQbI/view?t=35 Video
Eggmeister Posted January 12 Posted January 12 (edited) Found on the interweb, First of all, the existing fuse in your piece of equipment is replace by a solid copper rod (named “SLUGGO”) which has negligible resistance and can pass currents you are unlikely to see in any audio product – certainly more than a hundred Amps – before heating (please be sure to ready the safety implications of using SLUGGO in your own product.) Second, the FUSE BOX itself is placed in the power cord between your product and the wall. It measures current flow to your product MAGNETICALLY without introducing any additional source resistance and then feeds this data to the internal microcomputer which determines if that current is “allowed” per the program it is running that emulates your specific fuse value as well as slow blow or fast blow type. If the microcomputer determines the current profile exceeds specifications it will immediately open the ultra-low resistance contacts of the internal high-power relay, disconnecting the load, and eliminate any further current draw. “Resetting” FUSE BOX to its rated value requires that it be disconnected from the wall for a minimum of 15 seconds. You must also examine your equipment for problems before trying again. FUSE BOX blowing again indicates your product has a problem, just as it would using a traditional fuse. FUSE BOX is the realization of what a Fuse should be and all of the safety protocols that go along with this design. Two years of work went into FUSE BOX. We know it works and we know it’s safe IF YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS. Lastly, we hope you’ll try it.” More stuff from the interweb The Swiss Digital Fuse Box takes the place of the power supply fuse in any audio device. Currently, only a specific range of amperage and fuse sizes can be accommodated, but I understand from Mark Schifter that additional compatibility ranges are in the works. What's necessary on the user end is to supply Vera-Fi with the fuse type (slow/fast blow), dimensions, amperage rating, and the device voltage (120/220V). This means that the SDFB is built specifically for use with the particular device it's being ordered for, and isn't interchangeable with other devices in your audio rig. It contains a microprocessor that's programmed to meet the stated fuse needs of your specific device, and once connected to your system, senses the compatibility it's programmed for. It then proceeds to provide the continuous protection to your equipment that would otherwise have been left up to the lowly power supply fuse. A comment on another forum Discussion of this product is always marred by talk of fire and damage. I'm convinced personally that this is as safe as a fuse. Using it you assume responsibility for it and I do that without worry. I get that some will always worry, so be it, don't try it.The improvement is real and I'm not going back. The seller of these units supposedly has never had a returned item. Edited January 12 by Eggmeister 1
POV Posted January 12 Posted January 12 (edited) It's laughable stuff. The things audiophiles will believe that would be considered simply crazy in all other applications of the same componentry never cease to amaze me. Edited January 12 by POV 3
Addicted to music Posted January 12 Posted January 12 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Eggmeister said: Found on the interweb, First of all, the existing fuse in your piece of equipment is replace by a solid copper rod (named “SLUGGO”) which has negligible resistance and can pass currents you are unlikely to see in any audio product – certainly more than a hundred Amps – before heating (please be sure to ready the safety implications of using SLUGGO in your own product.) Second, the FUSE BOX itself is placed in the power cord between your product and the wall. It measures current flow to your product MAGNETICALLY without introducing any additional source resistance and then feeds this data to the internal microcomputer which determines if that current is “allowed” per the program it is running that emulates your specific fuse value as well as slow blow or fast blow type. If the microcomputer determines the current profile exceeds specifications it will immediately open the ultra-low resistance contacts of the internal high-power relay, disconnecting the load, and eliminate any further current draw. “Resetting” FUSE BOX to its rated value requires that it be disconnected from the wall for a minimum of 15 seconds. You must also examine your equipment for problems before trying again. FUSE BOX blowing again indicates your product has a problem, just as it would using a traditional fuse. FUSE BOX is the realization of what a Fuse should be and all of the safety protocols that go along with this design. Two years of work went into FUSE BOX. We know it works and we know it’s safe IF YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS. Lastly, we hope you’ll try it.” insurance won’t honour the policy if you do any modification to a product that’s not a manufacturer issued. Simple! Even if said 3rd party operator saids so. If they need that to pass they need there modification assessed and to go through the standard testing to pass and have certain accreditation done even if the components have attained certain specs and accreditation. 2ndly the fuse he took out that looks like the incoming mains line is incase of load to the mains, every electrical product that runs on mains will have this. This is in the 230VAC 50Hz or 120 60Hz depending on where in the world you live. This AC side of the PSU has no impact on the DC supply rail of any audio circuit, unless the OP is listening to 230VAC 50Hz with the fuse in line now that would have more credit. from the original OP I doubt he would be able to tell the difference under any controlled blind test using normal music material. Unless the fuse is inline with the signal path, and in this case it isn’t, you won’t notice an impact in audio performance and in this case the OP is new on this forum so you have to raise suspicion on product marketing. 3rdly there are 2 main different fuses, slow and fast blow, both have a different spec on the time it takes to be taken out. If you check the specs the the Little Fuse that the OP provided it’s at least 0.5sec if I’m reading it right. Even with slow blow in some cases way too long and the longer it takes a fuse to blow the higher the rate other component surrounding that circuit has a higher chance taking out others or worst case senario go into thermal runway Edited January 12 by Addicted to music
dubplate Posted January 12 Author Posted January 12 In response to addicted to music, I as stated before have no affiliation with the product or its manufacturer, I posted because I have tried it and it works, and as with all things, which is why I like forums , people post their views and concerns as well as their findings, that is what this is about, I certainly understand concerns about safety and that is welcome.
dubplate Posted January 12 Author Posted January 12 Vera fi audio is the manufacturer of this product, I got my information from that source not underwood hifi who I believe is a dealer on Vera fi’s behalf.
LogicprObe Posted January 12 Posted January 12 If you want a good fuse? Make your own from proven products. If it stuffs up!? You can sue yourself!
Addicted to music Posted January 12 Posted January 12 36 minutes ago, dubplate said: In response to addicted to music, I as stated before have no affiliation with the product or its manufacturer, I posted because I have tried it and it works, and as with all things, which is why I like forums , people post their views and concerns as well as their findings, that is what this is about, I certainly understand concerns about safety and that is welcome. My post stands, it’s not about just health and safety, technically from an electronics background fuse changes in the AC mains will make zero impact on SQ period. If you want to make a notible audio difference, look at the PSU filter cap. The chemistry that determines ESR that are in line with the supply rail to you audio circuitry and that’s a hint with credibility.
Addicted to music Posted January 12 Posted January 12 41 minutes ago, dubplate said: Vera fi audio is the manufacturer of this product, I got my information from that source not underwood hifi who I believe is a dealer on Vera fi’s behalf. it doesn’t matter where you got that info from, it’s all 100% marketing hype. Fuses and power cords are the biggest scam in the audio world. There is no credible info on that video, fuses are place to safeguard component failure, bypassing especially the AC mains side has zero impact on SQ… that’s the honest brutal truth. If you want to hear a change, look at components that are in the audio circuit, fuses that are on the AC mains and associated power cords are not. 1
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