obitankenobi Posted December 2, 2024 Posted December 2, 2024 Question for the wiser heads than me on this forum… Current setup using Roon/Tidal: Antipodes DX => Auralic Vega (1st gen DAC) => valve preamp => ss amp => b&w speakers How would you add to this system to allow me to start playing with HQPlayer since my old Antipodes DX I’ve been advised won’t run HQPlayer well at all? Do I add a Mac Mini into this mix somehow? To which part of the chain would I add it? Sorry for the newbie question!
Keith_W Posted December 3, 2024 Posted December 3, 2024 Insert it between the source (your Antipodes) and the DAC. Use HQPlayer embedded installed on an x86 PC. It has its own OS. Where is @rand129678, he is the HQPlayer expert. 2
rand129678 Posted December 3, 2024 Posted December 3, 2024 22 hours ago, obitankenobi said: Question for the wiser heads than me on this forum… Current setup using Roon/Tidal: Antipodes DX => Auralic Vega (1st gen DAC) => valve preamp => ss amp => b&w speakers How would you add to this system to allow me to start playing with HQPlayer since my old Antipodes DX I’ve been advised won’t run HQPlayer well at all? Do I add a Mac Mini into this mix somehow? To which part of the chain would I add it? Sorry for the newbie question! Your DX has an Intel Atom with 4GB of RAM. This is even well below what Roon recommends let alone HQPlayer. The Roon guys are publicly not a fan of the Antipodes machines running Roon Core/Server. No problem at all as a Roon endpoint though or even HQP NAA endpoint. If I were you I'd sell it to fund an Intel NUC to run Roon (as recommended by Roon) and a Raspberry Pi 4 for HQPlayer NAA (endpoint). Is your Mac Mini an Intel ? The new M4 Mac Mini can probably handle both Roon Core and HQPlayer Desktop just fine I'm assuming you want to upsample to DSD256? For PCM, what you have is already fine 1
Superfuzzbigmuff Posted December 3, 2024 Posted December 3, 2024 I don't know anything about the DX, but sounds like you've done your homework to determine it won't run hqplayer. I also don't know much about the Intel NUCs (other than they don't make them anymore, but still produce the chip obviously). ASUS now make the NUC's. If you went down the NUC path, you can use an OS that doesn't come with the baggage of a Mac OS (such as Linux with ROON ROCK). That sounds like it could be advantageous. The other Intel option is a Roon Nucleus, but they can't run hqplayer. They're just set up for Roon - I had one of those. I do use a Mac with hqplayer running through Roon. It works really well and hqplayer is very easy to set up via Roon. I have a Mac Studio which runs headlessly straight into my DAC via USB. Unless you buy a super charged gaming PC, from what I read, you'll struggle to get much better than DSD256, with the highest quality modulator (e.g. ASDM7EC - super), plus a DAC correction filter (which you won't need to worry about as hqplayer doesn't have a DAC filter for Aurelic). In this thread https://community.roonlabs.com/t/m4-pro-mac-mini/284772/54, a guy is claiming to be able to do DSD 512x48 ASDM7EC- Light or DSD 256x48 ASDM7EC-Super on a base M4 Mac Mini, without a DAC correction filter (which again you won't need to worry about). I've tried both and prefer DSD256 ASDM7EC-Super. If you were to go down the Mac path, things you might need to think about: It probably is best to go with the Mac mini M4 - more RAM the better and even stretch to the Pro if you want to future proof your set up The M4 doesn't have a USB A connection - not a bit deal, but you may have to get a new cable You'll have to figure out whether you put an NAA in between the Mac and your DAC. I'm able to sit my Mac next to the DAC (it makes no noise at all and apparently the M4 doesn't either). I do go via a Gieseler USB Reinigen, thus avoiding any noise from the Mac or LAN The Mac sends the DSD signal via DoP. I don't find that a limitation, but something to be aware of. This is not an issue for a NUC or Intel chip PC. Sorry if that all sounds confusing if you're just getting into it. The bottom line is that hqplayer is definitely worth the plunge and getting your head around. From a SQ perspective, it puts Roon in the shade. However it's great to retain Roon's music organising capacity by running them together. 1
obitankenobi Posted December 5, 2024 Author Posted December 5, 2024 Thanks all. I'll have a think about what's practical... the M4 route is sounding likely. However do you use some kind of USB-C to USB-A cable from Mac to DAC??
rand129678 Posted December 5, 2024 Posted December 5, 2024 (edited) 10 minutes ago, obitankenobi said: However do you use some kind of USB-C to USB-A cable from Mac to DAC?? The cable situation is the easiest thing, this will work fine: https://www.amazon.com.au/UGREEN-Printer-Braided-Compatible-Printers/dp/B086ZGYK6K/ I bought this Intel NUC and there's still stock: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/176531781810 Very fast for Roon Core duties But the Mac Mini M4 will be practically silent, it is amazing engineering, whereas the NUC you might occasionally here the fan rev up Edited December 5, 2024 by rand129678 2
Superfuzzbigmuff Posted December 5, 2024 Posted December 5, 2024 8 hours ago, obitankenobi said: However do you use some kind of USB-C to USB-A cable from Mac to DAC?? Yes you'll need a USB C to A and it works fine. I've tried going from the USB C connection to my DAC with my Mac Studio and there are no problems (even though it also has a USB A connection as well). If you want to go a bit more up market beyond a printer cable, you could consider this brand. "Audiophile" USB C to A cables are a bit hard to find. I've tried a few and some of them are "screechers", and in my experience, it was worth tracking down a decent on (I use this brand). I'm not wanting to start a "do cables make a difference" debate here, but I am in the camp of "yes they do". That said it may depend upon what you're connecting them to. https://gothicaudio.com/product/semperfi-usb-c-to-usb-type-a-interconnect/ 1
rand129678 Posted December 5, 2024 Posted December 5, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, Superfuzzbigmuff said: Yes you'll need a USB C to A USB-C to Type B, like I linked above. Type A won't work with DACs... Edited December 5, 2024 by rand129678 1
obitankenobi Posted December 5, 2024 Author Posted December 5, 2024 On 3/12/2024 at 7:06 PM, rand129678 said: Your DX has an Intel Atom with 4GB of RAM. This is even well below what Roon recommends let alone HQPlayer. The Roon guys are publicly not a fan of the Antipodes machines running Roon Core/Server. No problem at all as a Roon endpoint though or even HQP NAA endpoint. Yes at the moment running the venerable Antipodes DX as core/server and Roon runs absolutely fine on it (albeit with about 30-40 seconds start up). But with HQP will be a different story I strongly suspect. The move from PCM to DSD is the mental shift and $$$ I am considering. If I stick to PCM I could upgrade the DAC and put the $ there. But I suspect to achieve revelatory difference I need to move to DSD and upsampling.
MrBurns84 Posted December 6, 2024 Posted December 6, 2024 8 hours ago, Superfuzzbigmuff said: Yes you'll need a USB C to A and it works fine. I've tried going from the USB C connection to my DAC with my Mac Studio and there are no problems (even though it also has a USB A connection as well). If you want to go a bit more up market beyond a printer cable, you could consider this brand. "Audiophile" USB C to A cables are a bit hard to find. I've tried a few and some of them are "screechers", and in my experience, it was worth tracking down a decent on (I use this brand). I'm not wanting to start a "do cables make a difference" debate here, but I am in the camp of "yes they do". That said it may depend upon what you're connecting them to. https://gothicaudio.com/product/semperfi-usb-c-to-usb-type-a-interconnect/ The semperfi usb a-b is what I use. Very nice refined sounding cable 1
POV Posted December 6, 2024 Posted December 6, 2024 4 hours ago, MrBurns84 said: The semperfi usb a-b is what I use. Very nice refined sounding cable USB cables don’t have a sound. They either work or they don’t work. That’s it. 1
Dystoria Posted December 6, 2024 Posted December 6, 2024 - On 05/12/2024 at 10:35 PM, rand129678 said: the NUC you might occasionally here the fan rev up I have a nuc which is ridiculously noisy when it revs so it sits out with the router. It's connected via ethernet to a pi5 NAA then direct into the DAC via USB A to B. I'm thinking of upgrading to an M4 So I can upsample HQP to DSD512. I'll still connect it to the pi via ethernet bypassing the USB C issue. If you go the printer USB A to B route PM me and you can have the one I used for 5 yrs. I swapped it out for a tellurium q silver and the soundstage really opened up - significant change in my system.
Superfuzzbigmuff Posted December 6, 2024 Posted December 6, 2024 22 hours ago, obitankenobi said: The move from PCM to DSD is the mental shift and $$$ I am considering. If I stick to PCM I could upgrade the DAC and put the $ there. But I suspect to achieve revelatory difference I need to move to DSD and upsampling. It seems like you have a decent DAC now that can play reasonably high levels of PCM and DSD (is it the G1?)? If I was in your shoes, I’d be looking introduce hqplayer into your system as the first step. It will deliver a serious lift in SQ regardless of whether you upsample to PCM or DSD. I have an R2R DAC and with the highest levels of PCM upsampling, optimised filters and DAC correction enabled - it sounds awesome and outdoes DSD. I was thinking about flipping my DAC too, but I’m in love with it again having introduced hqplayer into my system. I suspect on your DAC, DSD will be superior. If you buy an M4 Mini with the highest RAM you are willing to pay for (Jussi’s recommendations - not mine), I think you’ll future proof your system so that when you do change DAC’s you’ll guarantee the best quality source for what ever unit you have in your set up. Hqplayer’s versatility is amazing (providing you have enough computing power to make the most of this versatility). Roon and hqplayer start up pretty much instantaneously on the Mac regardless of whether it is in sleep mode or not (unless you’re sourcing your files from a NAS, as you’ll have to wait for it to wake up as well). You can also set the two apps to start up on login and by-pass the requirement for passwords, so its good to go if you’ve turned the Mac off and need to turn it on again.
Demondes Posted December 6, 2024 Posted December 6, 2024 (edited) On 5/12/2024 at 10:26 PM, obitankenobi said: Thanks all. I'll have a think about what's practical... the M4 route is sounding likely. However do you use some kind of USB-C to USB-A cable from Mac to DAC?? I also have a Mac Studio like @Superfuzzbigmuff at the time about 2 years back the Mac Mini were not great. Now I would probably go with a new Mac Mini. I have a USB-C to USB-B (printer style square cable from the Mac to the DAC. I also have HqPlayer5 and Roon running on the same Mac Studio. Personally I use only PCM 705.6/767 out of HQPLAYER as I find DSD even upsampled too soft and unconvincing. Also upsampling and heavy filtering use a lot of cpu and memory. But depending on your DAC, ears and equipment you may make a different choice. There is a period of playing around to find the best filter settings. In my case once set I now leave that, eg I am not a fan of going into Hqplayer and always adjusting the filters according to the genre of music playing. Edited December 6, 2024 by Demondes 1
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