How to be sensitive if you are a speaker!

[ozwine007]

Can someone explain to me speaker sensitivity. I have a set of Revival Audio Alante 3 bookshelf speakers with a rating of Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 87dB/2.83V/1metre. I am running a Yamaha N2000 amplifier and I use the internal DAC to stream my content. I have ordered a set of Alante 5 speakers with a Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 89dB/2.83V/ 1 metre. Now I realise that the 3's are a 2 way configuration and the 5 is a 3 way configuration but there is a difference of 2dB in sensitivity, what does that actually mean sound wise?

 

I was at the HiFi show in Melbourne and I loved the sound of the VAF i93 MKV speakers that had a rating Sensitivity  89 dB @ 1w/1m which is the same as the Alante 5, but I know they sounded completely different, so does sensitivity make much difference? or is it other factors in the speaker design?

 

Looking forward to the replies but please don't shoot the questioner I am trying to understand what this all means.

 

Cheers

David

 

[aussievintage]

7 hours ago, ozwine007 said:

so does sensitivity make much difference? or is it other factors in the speaker design?

 

 

Sensitivity is not a description of the type of sound a speaker will make.  It only tells you how loud a speaker will be, in decibels, usually at 1 metre distance when being fed 1 watt.

[mwhouston]

As above the greater the sensitivity the less wattage is required to play as loud. The sound may only vary with extremely high sensitive speakers of 100db or more. This is due to driver construction to get this higher sensitivity can impact sound.

 

Between 85 and 95db sensitivity generally will not affect overall sound. To give you a guide how loud a speaker will play for how many watts my 93db sensitive speakers play loud on just a few tube watts. .

[aechmea]

As above and ...

 

Whereas my 77.5dB/2.83v/1 metre speakers barely make a noise unless driven by a high wattage amp.

 

A bit more ...

 

To the ear +10dB appears about twice as loud.

+3dB is double power.  -3dB is half power.

+ 10dB = 10 times power.

 

So if one doubles the power of an amp you gain 3dB in sound pressure level (SPL) (= loudness) which is detectable by the ear but not nearly double.  You need 10 times (= +10dB) the power for it to seem about twice as loud.

 

[By the way, some manufacturers use "1 watt" while others use " 2.83volts" .  Both are the same into 8 ohms.  However, "2.83 volts" into 4 ohms needs 2 watts.  So using "2.83volts" rather than "1 watt" is a cunning way to make 4ohm speakers seem more sensitive than they really are.]

Edited October 15, 2024 by aechmea

[ozwine007]

Thank you that all makes more sense now. So, in general terms if I went to a tube amp, it would be preferable to have a higher sensitivity rating for the speaker?

[sir sanders zingmore]

9 minutes ago, ozwine007 said:

Thank you that all makes more sense now. So, in general terms if I went to a tube amp, it would be preferable to have a higher sensitivity rating for the speaker?

As is often the case, the answer is “it depends”. In general, tube amps tend to have lower power than solid state so speakers that are easier to drive should be a better match. 
However…. “easier to drive” doesn’t just mean higher sensitivity. A speaker might have a high sensitivity but may also have an impedance profile that drops quite low. Such a speaker will need an amp that can deliver more watts into lower resistance, something that valve amps don’t do. 
 

The received wisdom (for good reason imho) is to select speakers first and then find an amp that drives them well

[wasabijim]

2 hours ago, aechmea said:

A bit more ...

 

To the ear +10dB appears about twice as loud.

+3dB is double power.  -3dB is half power.

+ 10dB = 10 times power.

 

 

 am I correct (or in the ballpark logically) if i vision this as 

 

I'm standing 1m away from someone who's singing a single maintained note -"lah!" 

 

I add another person (a near clone) to also sing and this maintain this note. I've doubled the power with 2 singers and I'm hearing a +3dB increase in perceived volume (above the starting reference)

 

I want more volume. I double the 2 singers to get 4 and have +6dB (above the starting reference) 

 

I want more volume. I double the 4 singes to 8 and have +9dB (above the starting reference). 

 

I want a more volume. to get another 3dB for a total of +12dB above the starting reference, I'm going to now need 8x2=16 singers total. But I've only got another 2. Without getting into the nitty maths of this last change - now have 10 singers (x10 the original) and more or less +10dB, which is perceived as a doubling of volume. 

 

[aechmea]

51 minutes ago, wasabijim said:

 

 am I correct (or in the ballpark logically) if i vision this as 

 

I'm standing 1m away from someone who's singing a single maintained note -"lah!" 

 

I add another person (a near clone) to also sing and this maintain this note. I've doubled the power with 2 singers and I'm hearing a +3dB increase in perceived volume (above the starting reference)

 

I want more volume. I double the 2 singers to get 4 and have +6dB (above the starting reference) 

 

I want more volume. I double the 4 singes to 8 and have +9dB (above the starting reference). 

 

I want a more volume. to get another 3dB for a total of +12dB above the starting reference, I'm going to now need 8x2=16 singers total. But I've only got another 2. Without getting into the nitty maths of this last change - now have 10 singers (x10 the original) and more or less +10dB, which is perceived as a doubling of volume. 

 

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

 

Spot on.

 

 

[aussievintage]

55 minutes ago, wasabijim said:

 

 am I correct (or in the ballpark logically) if i vision this as 

 

I'm standing 1m away from someone who's singing a single maintained note -"lah!" 

 

I add another person (a near clone) to also sing and this maintain this note. I've doubled the power with 2 singers and I'm hearing a +3dB increase in perceived volume (above the starting reference)

 

I want more volume. I double the 2 singers to get 4 and have +6dB (above the starting reference) 

 

I want more volume. I double the 4 singes to 8 and have +9dB (above the starting reference). 

 

I want a more volume. to get another 3dB for a total of +12dB above the starting reference, I'm going to now need 8x2=16 singers total. But I've only got another 2. Without getting into the nitty maths of this last change - now have 10 singers (x10 the original) and more or less +10dB, which is perceived as a doubling of volume. 

 

 

then you double the distance to 2 metres and run smack into the inverse square law   

[aechmea]

1 minute ago, aussievintage said:

 

then you double the distance to 2 metres and run smack into the inverse square law   

 

 

Exactly.  It's not linear, it's all about squares and logarithms.

[doogie44]

Here is a very comprehensive article on all the relationships between speakers and amplifiers, by Benchmark amplifiers. Bedtime reading.

 

One paragraph on loudness (seems about where you are up to, judging by your questions ) with my emphases:

 

With any speaker, we need to double the power for every 3 dB increase in loudness. If a speaker requires 1 W to produce an acoustic output of 85 dB, it will require 2 W to produce 88 dB, 4 W to produce 91 dB, 8 W to produce 94 dB, and 16 W to produce 97 dB... which approximately matches the 1-watt output of the original Klipsch Heresy. In 1957, power amplifiers were small and high sensitivity was essential. With a 96 dB sensitivity, the Heresy could play loud with just 10 or 20 watts...

 

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/speaker-efficiency-and-amplifier-power

 

Hope this helps

[David A]

"Hello everyone, my name is Sonus Faber Stradivarius....and i'm an alcoholic"