MP-701Mk3 capacitor(filter?) values

[tata]

My stock unit is a Bennic 6.8uF of which someone said a Dueland .47uF is a good upgrade.

 

I am concerned of the large difference in the values.

 

Will it be still be compatible and thereby safe to use?

 

What will be the sonic benefit/s, if at all?

 

[Addicted to music]

No,  stick to the values on the components you are replacing no questions asked and do not accept anything else.  That goes with all types of caps.  Replace the 6.8uf with a 6.8uf.

[tata]

It was actually Garry of MP that I asked for a recommended upgrade from the stock Bennic 6.8uF..and he replied to use the Dueland .47uF.

 

Perhaps he might have mistaken or got confused with my query?

 

I have sent him the photo of the installed Bennic in my 701Mk3 when I asked.

[muon*]

44 minutes ago, tata said:

Will it be still be compatible and thereby safe to use?

Yes.it will be fine.

 

Those Benics are just bypass caps on the power supply electrolytic caps.

[Addicted to music]

Bypass caps at a fraction of the values do jack all to the overall scheme of things....Stick to the value thats there and dont do silly mods...  If the designers felt like it needed a bypass cap they would do it.  

[muon*]

The designer recommended the 0.47uf Duelund as a replacment.

[MrBurns84]

I'll chime in as I've tested different values over the years from no bypass caps, 0.33, 1uf, 2.2uf, 3.3uf, 6.8uf, 10uf and right up to 20uf's... on the mk2 pre.  I do not recommend no bypass at all, and anything under 2.2ufs.  It amps up dynamics, but at the cost of refinement.  Sounds exciting at first, but then it gets fatiguing for long listening sessions. 

24 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

Bypass caps at a fraction of the values do jack all to the overall scheme of things....Stick to the value thats there and dont do silly mods...  If the designers felt like it needed a bypass cap they would do it.  

As @Addicted to music pointed out, - The sweet spot is at 6.8uf.  I have 20uf's in total as a bypass.  Also, the quality of the cap used here has an impact to the sound, albeit less of an effect to the coupling caps. But don't be going to put in Jupiter copper foils or something crazy like that unless you some on hand that's not being used.

[tata]

33 minutes ago, MrBurns84 said:

I'll chime in as I've tested different values over the years from no bypass caps, 0.33, 1uf, 2.2uf, 3.3uf, 6.8uf, 10uf and right up to 20uf's... on the mk2 pre.  I do not recommend no bypass at all, and anything under 2.2ufs.  It amps up dynamics, but at the cost of refinement.  Sounds exciting at first, but then it gets fatiguing for long listening sessions. 

As @Addicted to music pointed out, - The sweet spot is at 6.8uf.  I have 20uf's in total as a bypass.  Also, the quality of the cap used here has an impact to the sound, albeit less of an effect to the coupling caps. But don't be going to put in Jupiter copper foils or something crazy like that unless you some on hand that's not being used.

Nothing less than 2.2uf?

It means the Duelund .47uf is out.

 

Ok, assuming I go ahead with my order of the .47uf, what sonic difference will I expect as compared to the oem Bennic 6.8uf, if at all?

 

If your personal experience, assuming you are not in "favor" of the Duelund .47uf,  what would your recommendation be?

Edited September 25, 2024 by tata

[MrBurns84]

9 minutes ago, tata said:

Nothing less than .22uf?

no..

9 minutes ago, tata said:

Hmmm, it means the .47uf Duelund still is within your range. Ok, assuming I go ahead with my order of the .47uf, what sonic difference will I expect as compared to the oem Bennic 6.8uf, if at all?

Not much more than running without a bypass at all.  Do yourself a favour and read up on bypass capacitors and why it is used.  And you will understand why a low value cap makes no sense.

10 minutes ago, tata said:

If your personal experience, assuming you are not in "favor" of the Duelund .47uf,  what would your recommendation be?

Stick to the 6.8uf value as a baseline.  I'd spend a bit more to get a better cap then the Bennic.  Clarity cap CMR is a good one to use, but if you dont want to spend much, the Solen PB is excellent here too plus its a smaller cap and will allow you to use a higher uf value.

[tata]

4 minutes ago, MrBurns84 said:

no..

Not much more than running without a bypass at all.  Do yourself a favour and read up on bypass capacitors and why it is used.  And you will understand why a low value cap makes no sense.

Stick to the 6.8uf value as a baseline.  I'd spend a bit more to get a better cap then the Bennic.  Clarity cap CMR is a good one to use, but if you dont want to spend much, the Solen PB is excellent here too plus its a smaller cap and will allow you to use a higher uf value.

Nice feedback from you, sir.

 

I would like then a brand and uf value recommended with my current audio system for synergy.

 

I am into not surgical clarity but more into natural human voice (no "digital" shrill) sweetness and musicality and foot-tapping, head nodding pace, involving and deep, wide soundstage.

 

Streamer into MP-DX DAC, to MP 701mk3...then Aragon 4004mk2 power amp and finally to Magnepan LRS+ supplemented with a pair VPE LDW1 dipole woofers. 

 

At present I am getting the sound as I described above but who am I to refuse a "better mousetrap"?

 

[muon*]

Just use the Duelund if you have it already, easy swap over, so you can judge for yourself, but allow the cap 100hrs to settle so you are judging it for what it really sounds like.

[aussievintage]

11 hours ago, tata said:

At present I am getting the sound as I described above but who am I to refuse a "better mousetrap"?

 

Well, I would say it would be quite sensible to stop futzing around with it, if, as you say, you are already getting the sound you want.  Take a few paces back and reread this thread.  0.47 will do the same as 6.8 ??  Any value over 2.2 ??   It isn't at all scientific.  Logically if the value has a marginal efffect, then the quality of the cap will have a marginal effect on that already small margin.     Better to just play some more music and enjoy.

[MrBurns84]

That bypass cap position can take values from 0.1 up to 20uf from memory.  Thats a very big margin should you feel like you need to experiment. If you have an existing cap stash by all means experiment with what you have and see what you like. 

11 hours ago, tata said:

I would like then a brand and uf value recommended with my current audio system for synergy.

 

I am into not surgical clarity but more into natural human voice (no "digital" shrill) sweetness and musicality and foot-tapping, head nodding pace, involving and deep, wide soundstage.

unfortunately no one but yourself can do this as everyone's system and personal preference plays a part in this.  I could suggest a certain value and cap brand and type, but you may prefer something else after listening to it.  Highly subjective.

 

17 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

Well, I would say it would be quite sensible to stop futzing around with it, if, as you say, you are already getting the sound you want.  It isn't at all scientific.  Logically if the value has a marginal effect, then the quality of the cap will have a marginal effect on that already small margin.     Better to just play some more music and enjoy.

Sensible advice here.  If you do feel the need to fuff around with bypass caps of all sorts, get some cheap one's off different values to play around first and then settle with a cap brand / type after.  

[tata]

Being a newbie to more technical topics like this, I was concerned of changing to a .47uf from the stock 6.8uf Bennic.

 

After reading this thread last night, I have actually switched to a Mundorf 2.2uf and it dramatically changed its sonic character.

 

In the meantime, since my nos GE 5814a and Tungsram E80CC tube arrived,  I will be testing them on the v4 slot of my preamp, so I put back the oem Bennic 6.8u

 

 

 

 

[muon*]

Remember to test one change at a time and let each change settle in before making another change, that's if you want to understand what is having what effect.

 

Edit: Appears you are doing just that, good on you.

Edited September 27, 2024 by muon*

[tata]

On 27/09/2024 at 10:38 AM, muon* said:

Remember to test one change at a time and let each change settle in before making another change, that's if you want to understand what is having what effect.

 

Edit: Appears you are doing just that, good on you.

Well, I have received the installed the Duelund .47uf capacitor.

 

So far, initial observations are positive...but thinking about proper "Burn-In" of capacitors ( of which I am believer after first-hand experiences with the Vcap-Odams in both my 701mk3 and DX dac), I took out my "better" tubes and put back in the oem tubes for at least 150hrs of power On.

 

Now my question is, how do you gentlemen  burn-in...with a signal being fed (tuner, cd player, etc ) OR just turning On the power of the preamp will do the job?

 

[muon*]

You need a signal present.

 

I just use it.

 

Edit: I have done the CD on repeat thing when running in transport/DAC.

Edited October 6, 2024 by muon*

[tata]

17 minutes ago, muon* said:

You need a signal present.

 

I just use it.

 

Edit: I have done the CD on repeat thing when running in transport/DAC.

Ok, so now I connected a cheap tuner's pink noise output for signal.

 

Thanks muon, your PMs to me were spot-on.