Audio vs Data CD-Rs - Are There Any Differences?

[Bronal]

 

Are there any differences between audio and data CD-Rs?

 

If so, what are they and how do they affect the sound (if at all)?

 

[aechmea]

A commercially produced CD has a silver layer that is physically stamped with the digital data.

 

A CD-R has data "burnt" into a layer of special dye.

 

Regardless of the method used the digital data is identical.

 

Some people say that burnt CDs don't or won't last.  I don't know whether that is true or not.  I've not had such a problem and some of my burnt ones are 40 years old.

 

Some really old CD players won't read burnt CDs but that shouldn't be an issue these days.

[muon*]

Think he is referring to both CD-r types. for data like we are all familiar with, and the dedicated ones for Audio like I have pictured below.

 

[Bronal]

22 minutes ago, muon* said:

Think he is referring to both CD-r types. for data like we are all familiar with, and the dedicated ones for Audio like I have pictured below.

 

 

Yes I am.

 

Thanks for bothering to read my post.

[muon*]

I googled your question and got a few hits with explanations.

[POV]

15 hours ago, Bronal said:

 

Are there any differences between audio and data CD-Rs?

 

If so, what are they and how do they affect the sound (if at all)?

 

 

I'm not certain if I understand what you're asking.   Audio is encoded to CD's as data, and typically software that runs the encoding (burning) does a verification.  If it is a perfect copy of the data, and the CD is readable it's not possible for there to be a difference in the sound as the data is identical.  Potentially very low quality CDs could have issues in terms of data readability, but this would manifest as as actual error generated problems (IE skipping, dropouts etc).  Some CD transports will be better than others at error rejection.  None of it will (or could) impact sound quality if that is what you are asking.

[was_a]

Subjectively there are definitely differences in sound quality, and good CD players / transports will tell you the difference!

 

The best-value 'audio' CDR is the MAXELL XL-II. With a (very affordable) modern Plextor optical drive (Plextor PX-891SAF) I get excellent results with these CDRs. Adjusting laser-power settings with PlexUtilities software, and using optimal settings in Nero burning software, helps too.

 

Happy to share this info in a PM.

[bob_m_54]

What is on the CD, CD-R or CD-R Audio is only data, it's not music. It won't have a sound signature till it becomes music, which happens after being read and passing through a DAC. So no, they will all sound the same, but CD-R may, or may not, work if you're using a standalone burner...

[aechmea]

22 hours ago, muon* said:

Think he is referring to both CD-r types. for data like we are all familiar with, and the dedicated ones for Audio like I have pictured below.

 

One word...

 

Marketing 

 

To attract the eye of the curious or those that might want to believe.

 

There is no longer any mention of "Audio CD-R" on the Verbatim web site https://www.verbatim.com.au/product-category/data-storage/optical-media/cd/ .  The 5 options are whether the top layer is printable by various means or not.  They are all the same formulation capable of 52 times burning, so there is no distinction between whatever use you want to put them to.

 

It appears that the claim to fame for these Verbatim ones is that you can burn at "blazing speeds".  Does anyone like us  really care how long a burn takes unless of course one is a pirate producing box-fulls of counterfeits?  The faster the burn the greater the chance of creating a coaster.

 

 

 

[aussievintage]

20 hours ago, POV said:

 

I'm not certain if I understand what you're asking.   Audio is encoded to CD's as data,

 

An audio CD uses a VERY different format to a data CD. 

 

Some useful info

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-whats-difference-between-audio-and-data-cd-rs

[muon*]

1 hour ago, aechmea said:

One word...

 

Marketing 

 

To attract the eye of the curious or those that might want to believe.

 

There is no longer any mention of "Audio CD-R" on the Verbatim web site https://www.verbatim.com.au/product-category/data-storage/optical-media/cd/ .  The 5 options are whether the top layer is printable by various means or not.  They are all the same formulation capable of 52 times burning, so there is no distinction between whatever use you want to put them to.

 

It appears that the claim to fame for these Verbatim ones is that you can burn at "blazing speeds".  Does anyone like us  really care how long a burn takes unless of course one is a pirate producing box-fulls of counterfeits?  The faster the burn the greater the chance of creating a coaster.

 

 

 

I won't pretend to know why Verbatim no longer make them, could be for a few reasons including ones you have not mentioned.

 

Do I think these are any better than normal disks? I have no opinion on that! I don't even burn audio or data CDs these days and picked these up to give away at some point.

 

I prefer retail music CDs, early issues if possible.

[POV]

14 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

An audio CD uses a VERY different format to a data CD. 

 

Some useful info

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-whats-difference-between-audio-and-data-cd-rs

 

This is kind of why I said I wasn't sure of the question.  Audio is encoded differently to data on a CD blank in as much as that audio utilises the red book standard whilst data typically uses the yellow book standard; they utilise different sector sizes, and utilise a different form of error correction (essentially more rudimentary on audio CDs).  But ultimately my statement that you quoted was correct, audio is encoded onto a CD as data.

[Bronal]

1 hour ago, muon* said:

I won't pretend to know why Verbatim no longer make them, could be for a few reasons including ones you have not mentioned.

 

Do I think these are any better than normal disks? I have no opinion on that! I don't even burn audio or data CDs these days and picked these up to give away at some point.

 

I prefer retail music CDs, early issues if possible.

 

Amazon still appear to have them at $10 for a box of ten.

 

I prefer 'retail' CDs as well, but a lot of the music I like isn't available on CD, but can be downloaded via Bandcamp.

 

I have traditionally used Verbatim Music CD-Rs and have normally bought them off eBay, but I have noticed that they were getting harder to source with jewel cases, hence my original post.  However, I was surprised to see that Amazon were still listing them (and a lot cheaper than eBay as well),  so I may well give them a try.

[muon*]

You can have the 4 I have here, Alan....... just PM me your address.

[SonicArt]

Back in the day (well mid 90's on anyway from memory) it was the Japanese made Mitsui CDR discs that were the choice for music. They got something of a cult following with everyone using them to rip music to.

I have a pouch full of them, discs copied using EAC at the slowest settings, the discs are 30yrs old and still perfect, I burnt all my favorite albums in order to have them easily transportable to wherever I was going, back to back comparisons you couldn't pick between them.

 

Discs burnt faster, and some cheaper more generic CDR's did sound different, whether it was disc quality or loss of info leading to the playback system having to "fill the gaps" I cant say, but they seem logical assumptions to me (flame suit on )

[bob_m_54]

The thicker ones sound more solid... ;-)

[cafe67]

It’s not be mentioned yet  ( I don’t think) but from memory the stand alone ie component cdr burners ( not in a computer) would only work with Audio badged CDR, if you tried a data cdr they wouldn’t work. 
 

but also from memory , this rule didn’t apply to profession burners ie tascam branded ones , but to consumer brands

 

also from memory the audio CDR were more expensive because some mob ( RIAA?) got a royalty from every audio CDR sold?
 

and lastly ( but I might be thinking of DATs here) you couldn’t make a copy of audio CDR ?? 
 

 

Edited September 10 by cafe67

[maxspl]

11 minutes ago, cafe67 said:

It’s not be mentioned yet  ( I don’t think) but from memory the stand alone ie component cdr burners ( not in a computer) would only work with Audio badged CDR, if you tried a data cdr they wouldn’t work. 
 

but also from memory , this rule didn’t apply to profession burners ie tascam branded ones , but to consumer brands

 

also from memory the audio CDR were more expensive because some mob ( RIAA?) got a royalty from every audio CDR. 
 

and lastly ( but I might be thinking of DATs here) you couldn’t make a copy of audio CDR ?? 
 

 

Yep correct on all points.

[aussievintage]

11 hours ago, cafe67 said:

It’s not be mentioned yet  ( I don’t think) but from memory the stand alone ie component cdr burners ( not in a computer) would only work with Audio badged CDR, if you tried a data cdr they wouldn’t work. 

 

It was mentioned in the link I provided.  They needed a code already written to one of the start tracks

[aechmea]

The separate identification of "audio" and "data" CD-R is about USA copyright legislation (Audio Home Recording Act and other bits and pieces).

 

The USA law does not apply here so the use of "audio" or "music" in the label description of a CD-R is not applicable and useless for we Australians.

 

On close inspection those labelled thus on Amazon or eBay would seem to be imports from USA whilst those marketed and sold by Aus distributors for the Australian market (eg Verbatim Australia) have done away with any reference to "audio".  An Australian CD-R is a CD_R whatever its intended use.

 

The "audio" term in no way implies that the disc is better for audio in some secret performance way.  I suspect that some brands play on this wording to convince people that theirs is superior and the brand to buy ie. misleading marketing.

 

In any case the"audio" system does not apply (even in the USA?) to copies made via a computer but only via CD duplicating/recording devices.

 

So, to answer @Bronal's original post ...

the difference between CD-R Audio and CD-R only exists at the copyright level and only in the USA or maybe some other jurisdictions around the world.

A CD-R labelled "audio" as distinct from its non-audio sibling will not improve music playback at all.

 

The only determining "quality" factors are that the software, firmware, hardware and chemistry make a perfect copy in the first place and that the physical and chemical formulation, once burnt, lasts for a considerable period of time (decades). 50 - 100 years in the case of Verbatim blurb.

[aussievintage]

56 minutes ago, aechmea said:

the difference between CD-R Audio and CD-R only exists at the copyright level and only in the USA or maybe some other jurisdictions around the world.

 

Not quite. There was this...

 

"There are two fundamental types of CD-R blanks: the standard type and the Consumer Digital Audio type. The latter is intended for consumer stand-alone CD recorders which require a special code within the blank 'groove' of the CD-R disc before they will work properly. These discs are slightly more expensive as there is a 'copyright' levy raised from sales of these discs."

[Gieseler Audio]

I used to burn a lot of CD's back in 90's & was alway chasing maximum sound quality

to produce  compilation discs for demo purposes -  had HiFi store at the time.

The best result was using Taiyo-yuden That's CD-R's.

CD ripping and burning was using a Yamaha CRW-F1 External drive.

It had a special Advanced AudioMaster quality recording mode.

https://it.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/9/327749/CRW-F1UX_en.pdf
Apparently it widens the lands and pits during recording, significantly reducing jitter.

Bottom line was the burnt disc actually seemed to sound better than the original which is amazing.

Sorry @Bronal Slightly off topic maybe handy for someone wanting to burn nice sounding demo discs.

 

[POV]

2 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

 

CD ripping and burning was using a Yamaha CRW-F1 External drive.

It had a special Advanced AudioMaster quality recording mode.

https://it.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/9/327749/CRW-F1UX_en.pdf
Apparently it widens the lands and pits during recording, significantly reducing jitter.

 

 

 

This makes absolutely no sense at all, and I see no concievable way it could reduce jitter.  You are a designer of DACs aren't you?  

[aussievintage]

2 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Apparently it widens the lands and pits during recording, significantly reducing jitter.

 

That must necessarily reduce the data rate, so you will fit less on each disc.  Any improvement you think is happening would most likely only be due to the lower data rate.  

[Gieseler Audio]

Re -   widens the lands and pits

Just quoting what was in the Yamaha CRW-F1 manual.

https://tapeop.com/reviews/gear/34/crw-f1-cd-rrw-drive/