MoonDrifter Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 I'm thinking of ripping my very large (@3000) CD collection and in the future buying and downloading music, especially Hi-Res albums, I use Tidal and won't change to Qobuz so would need to buy from HDTracks or similar websites. I'm looking, preferably for a one box solution to fit in my HiFi Rack (so no PC or Mac Computers) and have a budget of about 10k. The music server will be used wifh my Lumin P1 Streamer/DAC. The Innuos Zen Mk3 and Zenith Mk3 get good reviews so would appreciate advice on these and other alternative makes/models, appreciating that the ripping, downloading and cataloguing software/APP needs to be excellent. Thanks in advance for your experience, advice and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonDrifter Posted August 29 Author Share Posted August 29 Been reading a lot of professional reviews on music servers and have now ruled out the Naim Uniti Core as it's reported that the Core is optimised to work with Naim Streamers and does not work too well with other makes of streamers. Also found the same with the Aurender ACS10 and ACS100, optimised to work with Aurender Streamers and again, not so good with other makes of streamers. That leaves Innuos and Melco. RRP of the Melco N50-S38 and Melco D100 Ripper comes in at about the same price as an Innuos Zenith Mk3, however, Melco Dealer support for their Music Streamers I have found to be poor after talking to 2x dealers in Sydney and 1 in Melbourne who did not know much about the music servers and no Melco Dealers in Perth, so no chance of a demo. Innuos Dealer in Perth has a "Statement" on Demo (out of the price range) but no Zenith so no chance of a demo for that either. Maybe better off just sticking with streaming from Tidal with my Lumin P1 and saving a load of money and also time not having to rip and catalogue my CD's. The music library on Tidal is very good for what I like to listen too and I have not, not found any artists and albums that I wanted to listen too, plus the Hi-Res albums sound generally better than playing my CD's, so probably will sound better than any ripped CD's anyway. Internet streaming sound quality is very good these days, so maybe ripping CD's is now not so important as it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 I can recommend dBpoweramp, but you have ruled out using a PC. Unless you use Roon, you will need to do a bit of cleaning of the tags of the ripped CDs using a program such as Mp3tag. No such thing as perfect tagging of ripped CDs; dBpoweramp does an excellent job, more than 95% accurate, and maybe better than the hardware vendors? Done properly, ripped CDs do sound better (better detail) than streamed music, after taking into account different masters, bit rates, compression. A 24 bit version online does NOT equate to better SQ. A 16 bit version online or 16 bit CD rip can often sound better, due to a better master, better production, less compression. And you can improve SQ of streamed music with audiophile switches and cables, but saying this will raise the heckles of the "digital is digital police"! Given that you are starting from scratch with a 3000 CD collection, and found that Tidal will satisfy much of your needs, then suggest continuing streaming. If you are chasing better SQ, you may want to rip specific CDs with dBpoweramp, get better Ethernet gear, purchase better mastered music or use Qobuz (smaller catalogue, better SQ). 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphy Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 I concur with Snoop8, I have been a long time user of Dbpoweramp. It has never let me down. It's essentially, set up and forget. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonDrifter Posted August 29 Author Share Posted August 29 @Snoopy8 The problem I have at home is I don't have a PC or Laptop, only a new Samsung Tablet. To go the PC route means buying a PC and then probably a NAS, both of which would be difficult to fit in my home, then I would need to buy and install a LAN, that would be extremely difficult to install in my old house. Far easier to just buy a one box ripper/music server solution, it will fit straight into the one spare slot in my HiFi Rack and then one ethernet cable and/or usb cable to my streamer/dac and I'm done and can use my tablet to control it - I'm looking for the simple solution here. Innuos and Melco allow you to edit metadata with their Apps, but maybe not as good as on a PC. But as you say, probably best to just keep streaming Tidal and forget about locally stored ripped CD's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 30 minutes ago, MoonDrifter said: @Snoopy8 The problem I have at home is I don't have a PC or Laptop, only a new Samsung Tablet. Noted 31 minutes ago, MoonDrifter said: @Snoopy8 - I'm looking for the simple solution here. Innuos and Melco allow you to edit metadata with their Apps, but maybe not as good as on a PC. Vendors present them as simple solutions, but they do not mention the effort involved, especially with classical CDs with its many variants and rare non classical CDs. This effort is markedly reduced by Roon which does much of the meta data (tags) management. Is it mandatory to rip your CDs? It was so for me many years ago, when streaming was not widely available and expensive. But if I started today, I would go streaming.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 There is no way I would attempt to manage a large music library without a computer of some kind. You will go insane trying to tag thousands of FLAC files with the touchscreen on your tablet. NONE of the ripping software, even those with access to online databases, do a good job of tagging ripped CD's. I have a CD collection of >5000 and it took me years to rip all my CD's, and that's with 2 computers which I was running simultaneously! BTW computers don't need a NAS or a LAN. If you have a big enough HDD or SSD you could store everything locally. Check out the price of an external 4TB SSD, you will find it is surprisingly affordable. I am somewhat mystified as to why you think you need to install a LAN. If you are streaming, then you already have a LAN? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aechmea Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 20 minutes ago, Keith_W said: NONE of the ripping software, even those with access to online databases, do a good job of tagging ripped CD's Amongst other things, even composer names can be a horrid mixture. None of these are an equal match for any other and they won't sort together either. Bach, J S Bach JS Bach Johann S J S Bach Johann Sebastian Bach Bach J.S. bach etc. Then there are the performers Elton John John, Elton and then there are all the other fields Is Mike Oldfield music Prog? Celtic? New Age? Folk? Folk Rock? One must be consistent and repeatable for the data to be in anyway useful. -------------------- Don't forget that you need to back-up your rips and downloads. On the odd occasion that I use ripped CDs (I actually play the CD), I use 3 x 2TB external USB-powered USB drives attached to an ancient Mac. One disc is attached, one in another room (not connected) and one off-site (different suburb). Works fine and that double back-up is all that you need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonDrifter Posted August 29 Author Share Posted August 29 1 hour ago, Keith_W said: am somewhat mystified as to why you think you need to install a LAN. If you are streaming, then you already have a LAN? I assumed a PC and a NAS connected by ethernet, which would be in a different room or rooms than my Telstra Modem which is currently next to and connected directly to my Lumin P1 Streamer , so would still need to run cables and a network switch. Not needing a NAS would simplify it a bit but I would still need to run cables to/from PC/Network Switch/Modem/Streamer so a cable LAN, which would be a big job in my house - it's just not rea;;y worth all that effort and cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonDrifter Posted August 29 Author Share Posted August 29 2 hours ago, Snoopy8 said: Is it mandatory to rip your CDs? It was so for me many years ago, when streaming was not widely available and expensive. But if I started today, I would go streaming.... This is very good advise from someone with first hand experience - Thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 17 minutes ago, MoonDrifter said: I assumed a PC and a NAS connected by ethernet, which would be in a different room or rooms than my Telstra Modem which is currently next to and connected directly to my Lumin P1 Streamer , so would still need to run cables and a network switch. Not needing a NAS would simplify it a bit but I would still need to run cables to/from PC/Network Switch/Modem/Streamer so a cable LAN, which would be a big job in my house - it's just not rea;;y worth all that effort and cost. PC's can be connected by Wi-Fi. If you are concerned about weak Wi-Fi, get a mesh system. And if you don't want Wi-Fi, there are other options, including Ethernet Over Power (uses your existing power lines ... example here), and Ethernet Over Coax (if you have a TV antenna, the cabling can be used to send data ... example here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 As above, but avoid Ethernet over Power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) 17 minutes ago, muon* said: As above, but avoid Ethernet over Power. Show us some measurements at DAC output that EOP degrades the sound, and i'll believe you. Edited August 29 by Keith_W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) Ripping 3,000 CDs will be quite an effort if done manually with a PC and through a program like EAC or dbpoweramp. And yes, tagging, naming, data hygiene will be a substantial and ongoing effort. Is this a reasonable solution: Can sell it on after use? -- I've never used Tidal and not found its limited catalogue to disappoint. Perhaps compare your collection with Tidal and see which albums will definitely need encoding to FLAC. Edited August 29 by Steff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aechmea Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 3 hours ago, Snoopy8 said: Is it mandatory to rip your CDs? Yes it is. No home contents insurance policy from anyone will cover a "collection" unless you pay through the nose. Something like $300 is often the max depending upon the insurance company unless you insure separately as a "collection". A couple of discs and a lot of time ripping is still a hellavalot cheaper than the premium that you would pay in a year, let alone every year. Everyone should check their insurance policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezz Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) discs take 4~5 minutes to rip, so about 8 hours for 100 plus pre-load, clean and repack. dbpoweramp is pretty complete, and I'm attaching some earlier rip logs for 'digestion' It may take time, but at least you can walk away, though spot checks are recommended. (50036) (2023_03_16 06_40_45 UTC).pdf Edited August 29 by tezz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 11 hours ago, tezz said: discs take 4~5 minutes to rip, so about 8 hours for 100 plus pre-load, clean and repack. dbpoweramp is pretty complete, and I'm attaching some earlier rip logs for 'digestion' It may take time, but at least you can walk away, though spot checks are recommended. (50036) (2023_03_16 06_40_45 UTC).pdf 816.64 kB · 0 downloads That is good info for OP. Time is about right for dBpoweramp, with the assumption that the CDs are already in the Accuraterip database and are in good physical state. However, the time and effort blows up when CDs are not pristine, and there is a large collection of classical CDs, with many uncommon ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonDrifter Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 Demoed the Innuos Statement today using the best demo room and high end equipment the dealer had available. Unfortunately, the dealer has the Innuos feeding the whole shop network system/demo rooms and thus configured to use Roon and could not re- configure to use the Innuos Sense App for my demo. Through Roon I compared the Dire Straits & Mark Knopfler Private Investigations Album; one locally stored wav 16/44 and one Tidal stream FLAC 16/44 and could not really tell them apart sound quality wise with maybe the wav being very very marginally a bit better. I also compared Dire Straits Brothers In Arms Album, the 20th Anniversary DSD64 locally stored against Tidal Streamed 1985 Original Album in FLAC 16/44 and the DSD was easily better sound quality wise but thats really Hi-Res vs CD so not a fair comparison but it was good to test it. Based on my demo today I wont be buying a cd ripper/music server and will continue with my CD Transport and streaming Tidal direct on my Lumin P1 especially as many professional reviews of the P1 said that direct Tidal streaming had better sound quality than streaming via Roon. Its been a very interesting and worthwhile experience investigating CD ripping and music server’s and Ive really appreciated everybody’s contributions to the thread, thank you very much. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) Ediscreation Bach music server/ripper should be on your short list. Though note as they're currently sold direct to Oz, there would be no opportunity to audition one, unless you happen to know someone who has one - https://ediscreation.com/product/bach-music-server/ Edited September 6 by David A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicprObe Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 I too use DB Poweramp. The caution I give is to try a few different CDs of various 'Loudness' and take time to learn the settings. BECAUSE!.........changing your 'settings' later will ruin your collection. Hence, I have ripped and reripped my growing collection three times. (and I'm still not happy)..........well, not completely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dssme Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 (edited) One of my biggest pet peeves is incorrect artwork That is, if I have a remastered version that modified the cover, for example, I would want the artwork to reflect that And if the track comes from an original record, I don't want the tags or artwork to claim it's a greatest hits record But I have wasted countless hours fooling around with tags, and if you asked my wife, family and friends, they'd tell you it was a waste of time Edited September 30 by dssme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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