betty boop Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 (edited) an interesting YouTube below, with some insight into naim…and I remember it for its stack of electronics and hearing the amazing combination it made back in day with with snell standmount graham from sound craftsman locally demoed …and then some years later a similar stack with b&w 805 standmount …it was fast, grippy, snappy and a very dynamic sound. a bit sad then to hear how the naim brand has progressed in ownership of an investment group…a tragedy in fact… we have seen further damage here in hands of a retailer/importer hell bent to destroy local value in the brand .. brands can have ebbs and flows …I hope naim regains its name and what stands for … Edited August 8 by betty boop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 10 hours ago, betty boop said: we have seen further damage here in hands of a retailer/importer hell bent to destroy local value in the brand .. I think it's been underestimated the impact that situation has had on the brand globally. I'm travelling in Singapore and Hong Kong at the moment. I've met many local industry members and when they learn I'm from Australia, all they want to talk about is "what happened in Australia", and how it has affected the saleability and pricing of Focal and Naim product globally! It will take years for that recover IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 16 hours ago, betty boop said: a bit sad then to hear how the naim brand has progressed in ownership of an investment group Well if the claims presented in the video are correct then Naim/Focal are being re-marketed as high end lifestyle consumer goods (more for display than use). If dealership support, customer support, etc. is being "rationalised", i.e. turned into call-centre-based and anonymised webpages, then any audiophile should be wary, as should the small dealerships. Thanks for posting the video. On a side note, the use of the whiteboard (and the end result) is truly. . .idiosyncratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 6 hours ago, Steff said: Well if the claims presented in the video are correct then Naim/Focal are being re-marketed as high end lifestyle consumer goods (more for display than use). If dealership support, customer support, etc. is being "rationalised", i.e. turned into call-centre-based and anonymised webpages, then any audiophile should be wary, as should the small dealerships the gear itself is still top notch i have not seen any drop off, if anything .. if look back at focal designs the ones currently are significantly world forward from the JM lab ones going back which isnt that far back and have and still own some of those... cant speak for naim and whether all show and no go or something if what suggesting .. to me they look like really good gear and continuing on with products as they are.. and have with these too gone a long ways forward i think. they are all quite expensive but we have seen that with a few brands.. i saw that with luxman.. the player i bought catapulted in price up to crazy amount. have seen that with audio research the same phono stage i had jumped up in price ranks ? I think the concern in the youtube from the dealership is "dealership support, customer support, etc. is being "rationalised" eg he said he couldn't guarantee even his existing customers ongoing support on products which is terrible situation as he said with naim ? ive not seen this with focal myself.... i understand they do back catalog support going way back even though the problem locally is that brands have been nuked off the market place.. to point what dealer ship will even stock these. and been sold at fire sale that who is left wanting to even buy.. so killed the brands effectively.. the new importer distributor for focal and naim have a lot of work to do.. the youtube had someone saying .. naim is not even represented in NZ anymore ? really what a poor situation ? if look in australia while westan is new distributor "bless their socks" in good hands now.. but for retailers theres one ? "Premium sound" not sure why others are not listed. i am pretty sure for instance Carlton audio visual do naim ? can only hope that web page is just not updated or something ... https://www.naimaudio.com/stores?universe=7 6 hours ago, Steff said: On a side note, the use of the whiteboard (and the end result) is truly. . .idiosyncratic. ha i just see it as a guy trying his best to explain and pour his heart out... probable took a bit ot work him self upto it.. as matter clearly very close to heart... i too sometimes feel i need to draw or write or something to talk through things hehe so can understand a little why went there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to music Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) i started out buying all my gear from Graham of Sound craftsman back in the early 80s and late 80s. He had a very good buy back for clients like myself that continued the business. I eventually progress to have the top of the line Naim electronics with Linn gear all bought from him. However took the path of the DIY with my electronics background. Today both Linn/Naim are not approachable, they priced themselves out of reach to most enthusiasts, there statement amplifier is in the order of $300k plus. . There are better value elsewhere at a fraction of the price especially if you look at serviceability and resale. I’m for one not a fan on having ID marking rubbed off electronic components even though I can work out what was used and where to source. Very unfortunate to see Graham sell the business and it’s no more. I think saw things coming that didn’t aligned to continue. Edited August 9 by Addicted to music 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCADees Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 On 09/08/2024 at 9:04 AM, Marc said: I think it's been underestimated the impact that situation has had on the brand globally. I'm travelling in Singapore and Hong Kong at the moment. I've met many local industry members and when they learn I'm from Australia, all they want to talk about is "what happened in Australia", and how it has affected the saleability and pricing of Focal and Naim product globally! It will take years for that recover IMO. That fire sale down under following the break up and what it did to the entire industry is an understatement. Will this be repeated with other brands? (I fear PMC etc). Focal Naim Part Company with Busisoft, How Much Has It Cost Them? Rampant Discounting A Problem There is a lot of talk about brands now looking at Australia as a high risk market after what happened. Sad indeed for us music lovers and enthusiasts. Not to be out of topic, but in a similar handling of a brand down under, looking at PMC in Australia, it does look like new sales have completely dried up and even the new PMC active home models for their Twenty5 series are nowhere to be seen. Just look at the second hand market for PMC here in Stereonet since 2022.... sad times indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 3 hours ago, RCADees said: That fire sale down under following the break up and what it did to the entire industry is an understatement. Will this be repeated with other brands? (I fear PMC etc). will pmc go same way as focal ? ie basically dealers not wanting to sell the brand.. as is story of naim above where a dealer is dropping it it after years of selling a brand. 3 hours ago, RCADees said: Not to be out of topic, but in a similar handling of a brand down under, looking at PMC in Australia, it does look like new sales have completely dried up and even the new PMC active home models for their Twenty5 series are nowhere to be seen. Just look at the second hand market for PMC here in Stereonet since 2022.... sad times indeed. if retailers dont stock brands folks dont get exposure and they dont sell. pmc was for years stocked by carlton audio visual.. i bought a pair myself from them years and years ago.. no they no longer sell pmc.. that pretty much says it all. and no reflection on PMC and the products they make themselves. they are still excellent speakers.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 Same with Cambridge Audio (which coincidentally announced a new distributor this very day 12 months ago) and more recently DALI. Dealers dropping like flies once they try and deal with the current "distributor". Now, CA is basically nowhere to be found locally. https://www.channelnews.com.au/mystery-as-to-why-australian-retailers-have-dumped-cambridge-audio-products-from-their-stores/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrology Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, betty boop said: will pmc go same way as focal ? ie basically dealers not wanting to sell the brand.. as is story of naim above where a dealer is dropping it it after years of selling a brand. The other problem with the current PMC distributor and the same would be true of Cambridge Audio and now DALI (with others to follow sadly) is that this distributor has their own chain of stores across AU/NZ and doesnt feel the "need" of traditional retailers to help with brand awareness and subsequent sales, even "IF" the traditional retailers wanted to continue with those brands because of legacy, client relationships etc. Basically if you read between the lines, they want to squeeze out all their competition out of existence, whether it be distributors or retailers. Edited August 10 by Hydrology 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrology Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 There are currently 69 audio brands (and counting) represented exclusively in Australia by this distributor - how can anyone expect this quantity of brands to be given fair representation across one e-commerce site and five stores? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 14 minutes ago, Hydrology said: There are currently 69 audio brands (and counting) represented exclusively in Australia by this distributor - how can anyone expect this quantity of brands to be given fair representation across one e-commerce site and five stores? is it possible to get a listing of these 69 brands ? This has potential to destroy the retail landscape for us here and destroy brands for us one by one and we will be poorer for it do the brands owners realise what they dealing with here and how single handily almost brands are being destroyed ? focal and naim fortunately has been wrestled out of their hands but they continue to destroy the brands with what they have left both those brands stock including that they have .. it will take a decade or more I suspect of hard work by re importer to breathe life back in these brands … 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrology Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 2 minutes ago, betty boop said: is it possible to get a listing of these 69 brands ? Very easy, just go to their website and click under "Brands" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrology Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 3 minutes ago, betty boop said: do the brands owners realise what they dealing with here and how single handily almost brands are being destroyed ? No. It's called lack of integrity or big fat cheque. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 30 minutes ago, Hydrology said: Very easy, just go to their website and click under "Brands" It seems to be the way of the HiFi world. George (RIP) from Neophonics imported Sugden and kept the prices at a reasonable level. The new importer has jacked up the prices. Needless to say I’ll be looking elsewhere next purchase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 I have really strong opinions on Busisoft and what they are doing to the Australian market but I don't want to be slapped with a defamation case.. I do wonder if the ACCC could/should /or would look into this situation as it has all the hallmarks of being anti-competitive.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrology Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 1 hour ago, Hydrology said: Very easy, just go to their website and click under "Brands" I should say there are more than 69 brands on there, its just they are the distributors for 69 of them. In a way I feel even more bad for the brands they represent but arent the distributor - one would imagine the onus is on selling your stuff first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 1 hour ago, betty boop said: This has potential to destroy the retail landscape for us here and destroy brands for us one by one and we will be poorer for it Something the industry has agreed on for 10 years now, easily. My comments in the past about a certain distributor have not been received well. People are beginning to understand why I and most (OK, in fairness, the absolute majority) of the industry feel this way now. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 5 minutes ago, Hydrology said: I should say there are more than 69 brands on there, its just they are the distributors for 69 of them. In a way I feel even more bad for the brands they represent but arent the distributor - one would imagine the onus is on selling your stuff first. This is my confusion … which of these do they bring in and are on death row … what are the other brands others bring in and they just sell ? Some are obvious and I know. Others just don’t know who is the actual distributor them or others ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 10 minutes ago, betty boop said: This is my confusion … which of these do they bring in and are on death row … what are the other brands others bring in and they just sell ? Some are obvious and I know. Others just don’t know who is the actual distributor them or others ? I just took a peak at the "brands" list on the retail arm's website. Fair to say more than 90% of those that they sell are also brands they import. As more local distributors stopped supplying them (for various reasons over the years), they've moved to create and secure their own supply chain - and in retail, now have no competition for those brands (and a healthy double dip on the margin). 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 Is it possible to list the 10% thru don’t import. Focal and naim clearly no longer in their clutches, wonder which other brands. do any of the local retailer have any lines to the makers to appeal the current situation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 I won't name names. The last journalist that called a certain distributor out (on this type of stuff), even though it was all mostly true, found themselves in court and had to publish a public apology, and remove all content ever written about a certain distributor, retailer and their brands. It came down to who had the best solicitor. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 It will take me a while. No one can sue me on facts. I’ll slowly work through to work out who imports what and post here. If someone knows otherwise they can post to correct me. I don’t think anyone can sue me for posting what a company imports 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 @POV Now you know why ATA isn't loved on this site. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POV Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 Ok, so I should ignore my personal experiences and listen to some whinging on this site? I have spent over $200k at Addicted to Audio and I have always received routinely excellent service. In fact the the few issues I have had have been handled with exemplary speed and professionalism (far better than some of their competitors) What do you guys expect? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 That's excellent to hear - it's important to have a great relationship with any chosen retailer. I don't think the customer service experience at any retailer is in question here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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