Cartridge and tonearm matching

[Gremrock]

Hey,

 

not sure if this is quite the right spot for this but here we go anyway.

 

at some point down the track I want to try a Yamaha GT5000, and I currently own a London Reference cartridge.

Can anyone tell me if this is a good match?

 

also, can anyone with experience on this deck give me recommendations on what they’ve found to work well?

 

cheers

Dan

 

 

[cafe latte]

3 hours ago, Gremrock said:

Hey,

 

not sure if this is quite the right spot for this but here we go anyway.

 

at some point down the track I want to try a Yamaha GT5000, and I currently own a London Reference cartridge.

Can anyone tell me if this is a good match?

 

also, can anyone with experience on this deck give me recommendations on what they’ve found to work well?

 

cheers

Dan

 

 

What is the arms effective mass?

Chris

[Ian McP]

Choosing a cartridge and aligning it could be problematic. The Yamaha has a shorter than normal tonearm as described here:

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/yamaha-gt-5000

 

Perhaps a different choice of turntable would be be a better option? Then a search for a compatible tonearm for a London Reference. Knowing the compliance of the cartridge will help in choice of a low, medium of high mass arm. It gets complicated there too due to the unique design of the cartridge's cantilever and suspension. I believe it may have different compliances in the vertical and horizontal directions, I may be wrong.

 

some more info:

 

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue48/london_reference.htm

 

https://www.dagogo.com/london-decca-reference-cartridge-review/

 

latest news Jan 2024

 

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/london-decca-cartridges-who-use-them-now.1193105/

 

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/decca/london.shtml

 

regards Ian

[Gremrock]

Another option I may have for the Yamaha is the sumiko pearwood 2.. again, not sure how to work out if it’s a good option..

[Ian McP]

 

In compliance Decca London cartridges seem to vary between 12 to 15 x 10 -6 cm/Dyne.

this is considered moderate see matching tonearm to cartridge matching at Lenco Heaven below

 

https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php?m=Decca&mod=&t=any&sort=2&Search=Search&sty=&ovlo=&ovhi=&can=&dclo=&dchi=&stid=&masslo=&masshi=&notes=&prlo=&prhi=

 

matching tonearm to cartridge, all is revealed here

https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=24276.0

 

Knowing the Yamaha tonearm's effective mass is essential in calculating the tonearm-headshell–cartridge assembly bearing in mind this changes with weight of the cartridge and weight of the headshell if a different one is used.

 

cafe latte is da man to ask!

[PKay]

Not relating to the arm/cart but I just noticed that the AC power only has active and neutral.  Is that likely to cause issues with earth/hum noise?  The tonearm has a ground connection at the back.

 

Edited August 5, 2024 by PKay

[cafe latte]

17 hours ago, Gremrock said:

Hey,

 

not sure if this is quite the right spot for this but here we go anyway.

 

at some point down the track I want to try a Yamaha GT5000, and I currently own a London Reference cartridge.

Can anyone tell me if this is a good match?

 

also, can anyone with experience on this deck give me recommendations on what they’ve found to work well?

 

cheers

Dan

 

 

I have just had a read about the GT5000 and the arm has many issues in my opinion. There is no other hifi arm with no offset, the only short straight arms are DJ arms designed for scratching. Yamaha say anti skate and offset is not needed on a short arm, I respectfully disagree.

On the review I read they struggled to get carts of different lengths to fit the Yamaha alignment. They also don't mention the effective mass which is unhelpful. Wow and flutter also is rather high.

My 2c is a sl1200g is a far better bet with a proper tonearm with offset so you can align normally and anti skate that actually varies as it moves across the record so it is correct more of the time with vanishing low wow and flutter and rumble with a coreless motor so no cogging.

It is also a perfect match for your Decca.

Chris

[e83cc]

Quote

There is no other hifi arm with no offset, 

 

This is not correct.

Viv Lab, Fidelix 0 side force arm are 2 of many examples.

Yamaha has been making these for years.

 

Basically these arms have much lower skating forces due to the absence of offset angle, but of course they have higher tracking error.

 

Personally I don't like the concept, but there are many users that do.

 

The lower skating forces may be helpful for the Decca which does not have a conventional cantilever, but its a crap shoot as to whether the Decca will work well.

 

Personally I would not buy either the TT or the Decca.

 

 

[cafe latte]

1 hour ago, e83cc said:

 

This is not correct.

Viv Lab, Fidelix 0 side force arm are 2 of many examples.

Yamaha has been making these for years.

 

Basically these arms have much lower skating forces due to the absence of offset angle, but of course they have higher tracking error.

 

Personally I don't like the concept, but there are many users that do.

 

The lower skating forces may be helpful for the Decca which does not have a conventional cantilever, but its a crap shoot as to whether the Decca will work well.

 

Personally I would not buy either the TT or the Decca.

 

 

The Decca can sound amazing, I have a lot of carts and I have heard many more than what I own and I love my super golds and my Jubilee.

Making am arm with higher tracking error really makes no sense to me.

Yes the anti skate issue will be less but it is still far better to have it than not have it.

Chris

[Hydrology]

Perhaps buy a pre-loved GT2000 out of Japan?

[aussievintage]

On 05/08/2024 at 5:31 PM, PKay said:

Not relating to the arm/cart but I just noticed that the AC power only has active and neutral.  Is that likely to cause issues with earth/hum noise?  The tonearm has a ground connection at the back.

 

No, it's a good thing.  You can't create a loop with a ground connection that doesn't exist   

Edited August 7, 2024 by aussievintage

[Gremrock]

On 6/8/2024 at 12:28 PM, Hydrology said:

Perhaps buy a pre-loved GT2000 out of Japan?

If I go ahead down the track it’ll be a GT5000, just trying to work out what will work properly on it, and hopefully build by knowledge on why or why not.

 

[cafe67]

@Gremrock

 

https://faq.yamaha.com/es/s/article/000001434?language=es#:~:text=You can use any kind,of the MC cartridge options.

 

https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/1132-yamaha-gt-5000-turntable

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/yamaha-gt-5000

 

quite a long and detailed review here 

 

https://7review.com/yamaha-gt-5000-review/

 

I did see another renew where they were using a Quintet black 

 

Edited August 8, 2024 by cafe67

[e83cc]

Due to the high tracking error on the Yamaha tonearm, I would recommend looking for a cartridge with a simple profile - Spherical or Elliptical. Less likely to gouge your records.

[aussievintage]

1 hour ago, e83cc said:

Due to the high tracking error on the Yamaha tonearm, I would recommend looking for a cartridge with a simple profile - Spherical or Elliptical. Less likely to gouge your records.

 

Exactly right.  In fact, go for a conical,   with a finer point -  like 0.6 mil conical on the AT carts.

[hlov]

On 5/8/2024 at 1:44 PM, Gremrock said:

Hey,

 

not sure if this is quite the right spot for this but here we go anyway.

 

at some point down the track I want to try a Yamaha GT5000, and I currently own a London Reference cartridge.

Can anyone tell me if this is a good match?

 

also, can anyone with experience on this deck give me recommendations on what they’ve found to work well?

 

cheers

Dan

 

 

You should consider to go to your nearest Yamaha dealer.  They will be able to advise on what cartridge(s) to use. I have listened to it at Len Wallis in Sydney probably with a kiseki but I might be wrong. Sounded great for me.

[cafe latte]

2 minutes ago, hlov said:

You should consider to go to your nearest Yamaha dealer.  They will be able to advise on what cartridge(s) to use. I have listened to it at Len Wallis in Sydney probably with a kiseki but I might be wrong. Sounded great for me.

The issue with its arm is in complex inner grooves it will struggle as the tracking error is huge at this point. 

It may sond great but where in the track did you listen to.

There is no getting around the issues with the arm, it is a LOT to spend to have so much tracking error and be limited to what cart you can use.

Chris