JkSpinner Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 hi can anyone tell me is GIK acoustic panels are available in Australia, and has anyone got feedback on the Australian made Hybrid Absorber / diffuser panels by Sound acoustic https://soundacoustics.com.au/product/room-kits/hybrid-absorber-diffuser-ha600-75/ and any feedback on the Selby Acoustic panels and diffusers. The Selby stuff is very reasonably priced https://www.selby.com.au/acoustic-room-treatment/4-pack-fibreglass-acoustic-treatment-panels-600x600x25mm-900811.html https://www.selby.com.au/acoustic-room-treatment/acoustic-panel-sonar-600x600-natural-apd2600n.html looking to maybe buy a variety of panels as I dip my toe into the acoustic pond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playdough Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) Hi, no experience with these although they look very good, prices are reasonable. Had plenty of experience making spaces more "comfortable" acoustically just coming out of a Uni Physic. set of 25 workspaces among others. The Selby large panels, with some thickness, look great. The hybrid diffusers, not so much. Done any before measurements ? Edited July 23 by playdough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JkSpinner Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 15 hours ago, playdough said: Hi, no experience with these although they look very good, prices are reasonable. Had plenty of experience making spaces more "comfortable" acoustically just coming out of a Uni Physic. set of 25 workspaces among others. The Selby large panels, with some thickness, look great. The hybrid diffusers, not so much. Done any before measurements ? The Selby ones do look great, and at a great price. Which hybrid ones are you referring to, the Selby ones for $50 each (great value) of the Aussie made ones at $100 each, I may even try a combination, the diffusion panels are all for my rear wall. I like the 3” thick The Primacoustic panel, but as they come in a pack of four, I probably only want two. I thought I would dip my toe into the acoustic pond fist, then maybe measure. My room is far from perfect size and shape, so thought I would fix a few obvious things up before heading down the measurement rabbit hole, seen to many discussion debates on these forums about measurements, not real interested in that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playdough Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Hi @JkSpinner Any addition of treatment to especially first reflection, floor/ceiling and across boundaries, rear/front of room treatment will be of advantage. I'm in the more is better camp and had a real crack at my own DIY lounge in the past year. Useful panels start at 40mm thick in my honest opinion, larger the better. Might be useful. The link shows the job fairly well and drills down into the maths, graphs and unique tech. that was used to control bass in particular. The Hybrids I looked at via the link you put up, were the ones with the hard center piece, like a sheet of thin ply, with plastic wood grain cover. Those would do ok, across corners front and rear of room or where ever a bass summation is present (usually in a corner,,, Post your work, interested, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JkSpinner Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 Thanks Playdough, I would give them a go myself, but I am a little timeshort, have just spent the last few weeks making turntable and amp plinths, and centre speaker stand. I agree with you re the first reflection point, se my other post "let's talk about front reflection points" but i dont really have a first reflection point, and I do not have a bass problem at the listening position. I sent GIK a diagram of my room with photo's. They suggested I start with installing some absorption only panels in my entry and hallway to absorb the reflections so they do not come back into the HT room, then look at diffusion on the rear wall, then look at the front wall. I could also create a first reflection point with an office divide with a absorption panel attached to the front. I really agree with their advice. So I thought I would start with some diffusion panels on the rear wall, may even be a mixture of different diffusion panels, some square panels in the entrance and hallway, may an office divide on each side creating a symmetrical first reflection point, then maybe the front wall. The ceiling is off limits for the moment. I think that with all the openings where sound escapes and does not reflect, that I can easily create a dead room if I overdo it, so bit by bit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playdough Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 19 hours ago, JkSpinner said: The ceiling is off limits for the moment. I think that with all the openings where sound escapes and does not reflect, that I can easily create a dead room if I overdo it, so bit by bit Agree completely with the approach you are moving forward to. Thick absorb in strategic places, that and diffusion. If the ceiling is off limits, something on the floor like a mat, up front with the speakers, with an underlay will give instant results. A wool mat with underlay was employed as a first treatment on my suspended hardwood floor and if nothing else was used, it would do, especially if first reflection and bass are actually reasonable. Easiest way to overdo and create a dead environment is to use excess high frequency co efficient materials such as 10mm hard acrylic or felt. Recently did quite a large job, treating consult rooms in a University, with 10mm sheet, results were treatment from 5Khz and up, which created a reasonably comfortable room, however it became lifeless with the 2 opposing walls treated. Not an environment for playback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JkSpinner Posted July 25 Author Share Posted July 25 (edited) It’s a bit all over the shop with a bit of a logical approach, although I am still not sold that I have it right. I am following the live end / dead end approach, and also the three zone approach. Since I do not really have a Zone 2 (first reflection point) or an issue with bass(zone 1 beside and behind the speakers) I am starting with Zone 3, which many people suggest diffusion. I like the idea of everything in front of the listening position as Absorbing, then a mixture behind the listening position, that you are hearing the speakers as accurately as you can. However I have also seen people suggest diffusion up front in Zone 1 and in front of the listening position in zone 2. This can create a wider sound stage, and offer some liveliness at the listening position, then all absorption in zone 3 behind the listening position, as you do not really want an reflections from behind, especially in 2 channel. This essentially swaps the live and dead ends around from traditional thinking. to combat this, I am hoping to buy products I can use at the front of the rear, and swap around if needed. This can become very difficult. The ceiling may be on limits once the wife hears the difference. Treatments all together was off limits until we watched a movie with sleeping bags all over the walls, and covering the open wall baby steps = happy wife = happy life Edited July 25 by JkSpinner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playdough Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 4 minutes ago, JkSpinner said: baby steps = happy wife = happy life Indeed, yes follow that principal, what can go wrong ? I'm at the point of, this morning after last evening watching The Fifth Element, she comment, "I could hear sounds coming from everywhere, was really good, love what you have done" I quietly in my mind, cheered loudly, as, it's probably the nicest thing anyone has said about the "thing" I've built. Edited July 25 by playdough 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JkSpinner Posted July 25 Author Share Posted July 25 7 hours ago, playdough said: Indeed, yes follow that principal, what can go wrong ? I'm at the point of, this morning after last evening watching The Fifth Element, she comment, "I could hear sounds coming from everywhere, was really good, love what you have done" I quietly in my mind, cheered loudly, as, it's probably the nicest thing anyone has said about the "thing" I've built. Now that is a set of speakers. You do like large panels 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 On 24/07/2024 at 5:37 AM, JkSpinner said: I thought I would dip my toe into the acoustic pond fist, then maybe measure. My room is far from perfect size and shape, so thought I would fix a few obvious things up before heading down the measurement rabbit hole, seen to many discussion debates on these forums about measurements, not real interested in that. Hi Jk, My first foray into adding acoustic treatment to my dedicated listening room didn't include measurements either - and OMG what a difference the absorption made to the "in room" sound...truly "chalk and cheese" compared to the "naked" room - but truly ugly, and the stench of the binder in the cheap fiberglass insulation was always in your nostrils Why are you against measuring your room, and applying acoustic treatment based on those measurements? I completely accept that interpreting room measurements is much harder than taking room measurements, but it's not a rabbit hole - there's good science behind applying appropriate treatment based on the interpretation of your room measurements. The interpretation of your room measurements is where the skill comes in to adding appropriate treatment. On 24/07/2024 at 5:37 AM, JkSpinner said: so thought I would fix a few obvious things up before heading down the measurement rabbit hole, seen to many discussion debates on these forums about measurements, not real interested in that. All rooms I've measured and treated have benefitted from additional broadband absorption - always focused on the lower frequencies - ie corner straddling absorption, as big and wide and deep as you can get away with... ...but measuring first may indicate less treatment is needed!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JkSpinner Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 9 hours ago, almikel said: but truly ugly, and the stench of the binder in the cheap fiberglass insulation was always in your nostrils Are you talking about the fibreglass type acoustic panels such as the Prmiacoustic and the Selby ones that have that smell. Or the others that use a type of glass insulation like the soundbox ones do, or something else. 9 hours ago, almikel said: Why are you against measuring your room, and applying acoustic treatment based on those measurements? Not against measuring it, just do not think there is a need to do it just yet. I am not an audio file, I just like my music to sound good. And I do think it is a bit of a rabbit hole, I have ready many a conversation about interpreting the results, and not interested in that conversation just yet. I do accept there is a skill and art form to it though. My room is far from perfect, and it does not take a rocket scientist to work out there is only so much I can do, with or without measurements, I pretty much only have a front wall and rear wall to play with. It’s also not a dedicated room, and it’s the first room you see when you walk in the house, so only so much I can do with the wife’s blessing. I have also spent the last two months moving furniture around, buying new furniture, and creating a bit of a theme for the room, so no need to measure until I finalise the layout. i will definitely start with some absorption in the entrance / hallway. Strange I know, there is definitely a problem there that is reflected back into the joined lounge room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 On 27/07/2024 at 8:17 AM, JkSpinner said: Are you talking about the fibreglass type acoustic panels such as the Prmiacoustic and the Selby ones that have that smell. Or the others that use a type of glass insulation like the soundbox ones do, or something else. Hi JK, I'm not referring to any type of professional "acoustic panel". Back in 2010 I purchased 50 bags of "fluffy" fiberglass insulation from a contractor after the "Midnight Foil" insulation debacle - 10 bags to install in the ceiling for insulation and 40 bags for cheap room treatment. It was this insulation that maintained the smell - cheap insulation sourced overseas. I swapped the fibreglass out for polyester Tontine Acoustisorb3 around 2015. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 On 27/07/2024 at 8:17 AM, JkSpinner said: It’s also not a dedicated room, and it’s the first room you see when you walk in the house yeah - I completely understand. I had the same thing when we moved into our current house. The front room off the entrance sounded truly terrible after we set the stereo up... ...I had a discussion with the boss about acoustic treatment, which is when she said, "take your stereo to the spare room downstairs, and apply any treatment you want"...which is how I got my dedicated listening room! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JkSpinner Posted August 5 Author Share Posted August 5 So, back to my original question Does anybody have any feedback on any of these brands of panels GIK - can you even get them in Australia Primacoustic soundbox sound Acoustics Hybrid Selby or any other brand, good or bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almikel Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 .Hi JKS, The only experience I have with professional acoustic treatment brands is Primacoustic, where I deployed their London 12 kit into a large conference room at my work. The Primacoustic kit was good quality and came as advertised. Their online layout tools were also very useful in placing the treatment in the room, and showing my work colleagues what it would look like. I was hoping for a bigger improvement in the measured before/after results than what I achieved, but I also had constraints such as every panel had to be mounted flush on the walls, rather than the bass panels mounted using the 45 degree corner straddling mounts, or the gap mounts. cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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