Roon vs Wiim

[Spider27]

Hello.

 

I am currently using Wiim Pro and Pro Plus and like their hardware as well as software a lot. Very user friendly and easy to use for non-tech person like myself.

 

I have not had a chance to try Roon and know that many people enjoy using Roon. 

 

Can anyone enlighten me what Roon does offer that Wiim or Bluesound Node does not offer?

If I understand correctly, all those software offer audio processing engine and EQ etc.

 

Is Roon offer more sophiscated audio processing solution and also provide better solution on meta data & matching album cover for music collection?

 

Any info from Roon users would be very much appreciated.

 

Thank you.

 

[wasabijim]

i was wondering the same, so i "cheated" and asked AI....

 

these are my take aways below but with  @Spider27 - it would good to get actual user feedback and opinions

 

Having access to your own extensive digital files on the go is a big plus if you're managed to avoid a subscription service to date. 

 

FROM AI - 

Key Benefits

Unified Experience: Enjoy a single interface for all your music, whether local or streamed.

Enhanced Sound Quality: Benefit from bit-perfect playback and advanced DSP features.

Rich Metadata: Deepen your understanding and enjoyment of music with extensive metadata.

Ease of Use: Intuitive design and powerful features make music management simple and enjoyable.

On-the-Go Access: Stream your library anywhere with Roon ARC, including offline listening.

Discovery and Exploration: Continuously discover new music with intelligent recommendations and Roon Radio.

Customization: Tailor your music experience with custom tags, filters, and playlists.

Multi-Room Flexibility: Sync and control music in multiple rooms effortlessly.

Roon provides a holistic, high-quality music listening experience that combines ease of use, advanced audio features, rich metadata, and seamless integration, making it a top choice for serious music enthusiasts.

 

[Spider27]

13 minutes ago, wasabijim said:

i was wondering the same, so i "cheated" and asked AI....

 

these are my take aways below but with  @Spider27 - it would good to get actual user feedback and opinions

 

Having access to your own extensive digital files on the go is a big plus if you're managed to avoid a subscription service to date. 

 

FROM AI - 

Key Benefits

Unified Experience: Enjoy a single interface for all your music, whether local or streamed.

Enhanced Sound Quality: Benefit from bit-perfect playback and advanced DSP features.

Rich Metadata: Deepen your understanding and enjoyment of music with extensive metadata.

Ease of Use: Intuitive design and powerful features make music management simple and enjoyable.

On-the-Go Access: Stream your library anywhere with Roon ARC, including offline listening.

Discovery and Exploration: Continuously discover new music with intelligent recommendations and Roon Radio.

Customization: Tailor your music experience with custom tags, filters, and playlists.

Multi-Room Flexibility: Sync and control music in multiple rooms effortlessly.

Roon provides a holistic, high-quality music listening experience that combines ease of use, advanced audio features, rich metadata, and seamless integration, making it a top choice for serious music enthusiasts.

 

 

Thank you. Have not thought about asking AI and pleased to see surprisingly good feedback from AI.

 

I see that 3 most obvious benefits (at least for me) would be Unified Experience (local or stream) and Rich Metadata and Discovery/Exploration.

 

Again, I have not tried myself so cannot comment 100% but if it does what it says then I see the definite benefits using Roon even paying for their services when we can get the very user friendly free software from Wiim.  

[Snoopy8]

1 hour ago, Spider27 said:

I see that 3 most obvious benefits (at least for me) would be Unified Experience (local or stream) and Rich Metadata and Discovery/Exploration.

You have summarized the benefits. In particular, the discovery and exploration of music is what Roon users love.

 

I trialled Roon but found that it did not suit the way I listen to music. As well, Roon was slightly behind in SQ, but this was not important consideration for most Roon users.

 

It sounds like Roon is a fit for you...

[Spider27]

7 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

You have summarized the benefits. In particular, the discovery and exploration of music is what Roon users love.

 

I trialled Roon but found that it did not suit the way I listen to music. As well, Roon was slightly behind in SQ, but this was not important consideration for most Roon users.

 

It sounds like Roon is a fit for you...

 

Thank you for your feedback. Great to know.

 

I am weighing up between Roon Nucleus One which was recently released (not sure if it is already released in AU) / something similar, or Wiim Ultra which is about to be released end of this month.

 

Wiim Ultra has a lot more features (Updated DAC, Pre, Phono All In One). On the other hand, Roon Nucleus One has built in SSD storage so eliminate the need of NAS but a lot less features comparing with Wiim Ultra.

 

Edited July 4 by Spider27

[Snoopy8]

14 minutes ago, Spider27 said:

 

Thank you for your feedback. Great to know.

 

I am weighing up between Roon Nucleus One which was recently released (not sure if it is already released in AU) / something similar, or Wiim Ultra which is about to be released end of this month.

 

Wiim Ultra has a lot more features (Updated DAC, Pre, Phono All In One). On the other hand, Roon Nucleus One has built in SSD storage so eliminate the need of NAS but a lot less features comparing with Wiim Ultra.

To some extent, this is an Apple vs orange comparison.

 

The Roon Nucleus does not have a DAC while the WiiM Ultra does. And for the best sound with Roon, you should be running a separate Roon end point.

 

Are you looking for a server/ streamer, a streamer/ DAC or a server/ streamer/ DAC?  You already have the Synology NAS, so I do not understand why you want a SSD on the server?  And what is your budget?

[Spider27]

6 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

To some extent, this is an Apple vs orange comparison.

 

The Roon Nucleus does not have a DAC while the WiiM Ultra does. And for the best sound with Roon, you should be running a separate Roon end point.

 

Are you looking for a server/ streamer, a streamer/ DAC or a server/ streamer/ DAC?  You already have the Synology NAS, so I do not understand why you want a SSD on the server?  And what is your budget?

 

Yes, I am starting to see that it is really apple vs orange comparison since both have different value proposition and offerings.

 

I assume that music server hard wire to DAC via USB direct offers best sound quality instead of NAS to streamer then to DAC via WiFi. I never compared two different routes and compared so I am just guessing. 

 

I am currently enjoy using Wiim Pro so comfortable with the platform and more likely upgrade to Wiim Ultra when it becomes available.

 

However, Roon's Rich metadata and Discovery function is definitely attractive too.

 

[Snoopy8]

A streamer/ DAC sounds better because you do not need to stitch streamer, DAC and cable (yes, it matters) together.  A streamer/ DAC uses  i2S internal bus which is better than USB.  This is what WiiM uses. 

 

9 minutes ago, Spider27 said:

However, Roon's Rich metadata and Discovery function is definitely attractive too.

Using Roon is a diametrically opposite direction to a streamer/ DAC.  As well as the Nucleus One, you will also need to look for a good Roon end point because it has a big influence on SQ. 

 

This is a big change in direction to the WiiM.  Lots of Room fans here, so it works well for many people.  But please go in with a better understanding of the hardware requirements and a yearly cost or a lifetime cost.

[Spider27]

1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

A streamer/ DAC sounds better because you do not need to stitch streamer, DAC and cable (yes, it matters) together.  A streamer/ DAC uses  i2S internal bus which is better than USB.  This is what WiiM uses. 

 

Using Roon is a diametrically opposite direction to a streamer/ DAC.  As well as the Nucleus One, you will also need to look for a good Roon end point because it has a big influence on SQ. 

 

This is a big change in direction to the WiiM.  Lots of Room fans here, so it works well for many people.  But please go in with a better understanding of the hardware requirements and a yearly cost or a lifetime cost.

 

Thank you again and it totally makes sense. I think that I will just stick to Wiim platform which I am familiar with instead.  

[Assisi]

I have had a life time subscription to ROON from the beginning.  A bargain.  I have not used another service like ROON for at least 8 years. The quality of both the Core and the End Point can impact the outcome.  That aspect can be important.  It is probably no different to any alternative option.  Quality creates quality.

 

 

The only way you find out the answer to your query is to try it and listen and compare.

John

Edited July 4 by Assisi
words

[Spider27]

43 minutes ago, Assisi said:

I have had a life time subscription to ROON from the beginning.  A bargain.  I have not used another service like ROON for at least 8 years. The quality of both the Core and the End Point can impact the outcome.  That aspect can be important.  It is probably no different to any alternative option.  Quality creates quality.

 

 

The only way you find out the answer to your query is to try it and listen and compare.

John

 

Thank you and you are lucky person being an early adopter and got the life time membership early when it was $500 (I believe?).

 

One thing that I am a bit confused is if Roon Nucleus One can be for bothg Core and End point so directly connect to the DAC via USB A or HDMI Audio output it has? I guess that it is solely for Core and need an End Point to be connected to DAC? 

[Assisi]

1 hour ago, Spider27 said:

 

Thank you and you are lucky person being an early adopter and got the life time membership early when it was $500 (I believe?).

 

One thing that I am a bit confused is if Roon Nucleus One can be for bothg Core and End point so directly connect to the DAC via USB A or HDMI Audio output it has? I guess that it is solely for Core and need an End Point to be connected to DAC? 

I did end up with a bargain being at the beginning as the $ conversion was also better. 

 

It is all about processing load.  The objective is to share the ROON  processing load across devices.  With the sharing of the processing it is likely that the final result will be better.  You can start with a device that undertakes both the Core and Endpoint activities. 

 

In my situation I use the Waversa Core2 as the ROON Core.  The WEISS 301R is enabled to be the Endpoint connected to the WEISS Helios DAC via XLR.  The 301R can also be a Core.  The result is better to not have 301R undertake both activities.    The Helios also can be an Endpoint.  It is better to let it just do whatever a DAC dose.  As you develop your system and funds permit you can have multiple devices.  It is more complicated and expensive to have multiple devices.  You can start simple and develop.  That is how I started.

 

John

 

Edited July 4 by Assisi
Word

[a.dent]

7 hours ago, Spider27 said:

One thing that I am a bit confused is if Roon Nucleus One can be for bothg Core and End point so directly connect to the DAC via USB A or HDMI Audio output it has? I guess that it is solely for Core and need an End Point to be connected to DAC? 

 

The Nucleus One can be used either way. It is just a small form computer like a NUC so can be connected to a DAC directly via USB/HDMI or a streamer via ethernet. This is a good article explaining the use case for the Nucleus and some other Roon core options. https://www.soundstagesimplifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/260-roon-labs-nucleus-one-music-server

 

I've been a Roon user virtually since it's release and I purchased a life membership immediately after my free trial. It's been the best investment I've made in my HiFi journey.

 

As @Assisi says above, the best way to use Roon is to run Roon Core on a server and use a streamer as the end point. So if you want to buy the Nucleus One you could use that as the core and use your Wiim Pro as the end point. Personally, I use a NUC as the Core server and stream to a Matrix Audio streamer/DAC.

 

If you want to try a Roon free trial without any financial outlay just load Roon on to any computer you have around the house and use that as the core to stream to your Wiim. It will give you a feel for the software and IMO will sound exactly the same as using a Nucleus One as the server. If you decide you want to commit to Roon you can then decide whether you want to keep using that computer, set up a dedicated server or buy a Nucleus. 

[Spider27]

As @Assisi and @a.dent suggested, I just signed up for free trial to understand what Roon really offers. I installed the software on my desktop and use Wiim as endpoint.

 

I added Music folder from my NAS on it and it took 45 minutes to match all metadata and album covers on my small collection which is 1152 albums, 12,395 tracks.

 

After spending an hour with it, here is my initial feedback.

 

+ Metadata and album covers are fantastic and almost all tracks and albums are matched and it is so much more user-friendly to browse albums and play them. When I use Wiim, I select an album or artist by their name and choose songs or play whole albums but there were no album covers so I had to guess based on the name and title only.

This feature makes joy to browse and choose and makes digging & playing my collection that was buried inside storage. 

 

+ Output selection. I can choose Wiim, my Desktop or streaming speakers from Roon software which I also found very handy.

 

+ Discovery Function. It is a bit overwhelming for first time user like myself. It looks like browsing Pinterest and all those pictogram album images & artist images without an order are a bit daunting to browse and choose from.

 

I found that Genre category from left main menu is so must tidier and easier to browse.

I see many people praise Discovery function so will spend more time to get familiar with the Discovery function.

 

What I less like about Roon.

 

- No Spotify, No Amazon Unlimited that I currently use. I see only Tidal and Qobuz and KK Box (?) are supported. I can use Wiim for those streaming services but it would be great if Roon support more streaming services.

 

I just signed up for Tidal for trial too to see how it works. 

 

- No Recommended Playlists. I believe that i can manually add songs to playlist after creating playlist but it does not offer recommended playlist like Spotify does. Wiim does not offer this either but thought that it would be great if recommended playlist is offered based on existing music collection. 

 

This is just my initial impression after brief usage and will use for next few days to get acquainted with Roon.

 

[wasabijim]

@Spider27 very interesting, thanks for sharing 

 

looking fwd to see where this goes 

[MattyW]

It’s worthwhile exploring the Silent Angel offerings with respect to Roon also though personally I prefer to host Roon Server from my Synology NAS for the simple fact I have automatic snapshots set up and can roll back any database or software version changes at will should there ever be any problems. Given Roon doesn’t build that functionality in I consider it invaluable despite only having had to use it once or twice.  
 

I also have Roon database backups but snapshots are the only real way to roll everything back. I have the same setup for Plex Server though these really are the only things I host from the NAS preferring Googles cloud based Nest Display/doorbell/camera offerings to running that from the NAS.

 

Despite running the a NAS for hosting the server I’ve found sonic benefits in running Linear Power Supplies to the NBN modem (also a supercapacitor power filter) + router and better network cabling. I prefer solid core silver from the NBN modem to router, and Acoustic Revive LAN1.0 Triple-C from there to Renolabs switch, NAS and TP-Link Deco BE95.

 

Then there’s more stuff closer to my actual sound system. I remain surprised this stuff is audible as it doesn’t agree with how network tech is designed through now simply accept that it is indeed audible to me. Whether or not for others is their concern.

Edited July 6 by MattyW

[Assisi]

2 hours ago, MattyW said:

It’s worthwhile exploring the Silent Angel offerings with respect to Roon also though personally I prefer to host Roon Server from my Synology NAS for the simple fact I have automatic snapshots set up and can roll back any database or software version changes at will should there ever be any problems. Given Roon doesn’t build that functionality in I consider it invaluable despite only having had to use it once or twice.  
 

I also have Roon database backups but snapshots are the only real way to roll everything back. I have the same setup for Plex Server though these really are the only things I host from the NAS preferring Googles cloud based Nest Display/doorbell/camera offerings to running that from the NAS.

 

Despite running the a NAS for hosting the server I’ve found sonic benefits in running Linear Power Supplies to the NBN modem (also a supercapacitor power filter) + router and better network cabling. I prefer solid core silver from the NBN modem to router, and Acoustic Revive LAN1.0 Triple-C from there to Renolabs switch, NAS and TP-Link Deco BE95.

 

Then there’s more stuff closer to my actual sound system. I remain surprised this stuff is audible as it doesn’t agree with how network tech is designed through now simply accept that it is indeed audible to me. Whether or not for others is their concern.

I have have never used a NAS as a ROON Core.   I also would not use a PC or laptop as a ROON Core. Going back to my previous post I do wonder whether a NAS even a quality one is best to host a Core.  If there is a separate Core device, I suggest that the outcome may be enhanced especially if the device is also of relative quality.  It is all about sharing processing loads on devices.  The downsides to separate devices are the number of devices plus the need for additional cables.  I do appreciate shelf space expediency and affordability.

 

It is intriguing as to why there is regular difference of experience with cables.  I am with you.  The cables with a network do make a difference.  To  me there is a benefit .

John

[MattyW]

I’ve little doubt that a Silent Angel unit would be far superior as a Roon Core for sonics however it’s the added reliability due to being able to roll back Roon updates not just the Roon database that I value. That’s why I explained why I use it. I do value better sonics but I value being able to roll back in the event of a bad Roon release somewhat more. Not every release of Roon has had reliable playback for me over the years.  
 

Those issues others complain of not being able to roll back are not ones I have to worry about. If/when Roon make it possible to do full rollbacks I will then move to a dedicated server though not until that occurs.
 

I work in IT and am not that enthusiastic about troubleshooting stuff when at home. Reliability is more important to me.

Edited July 6 by MattyW

[Assisi]

9 minutes ago, MattyW said:

I’ve little doubt that a Silent Angel unit would be far superior as a Roon Core for sonics however it’s the added reliability due to being able to roll back Roon updates not just the Roon database that I value. That’s why I explained why I use it. I do value better sonics but I value being able to roll back in the event of a bad Roon release somewhat more. Not every release of Roon has had reliable playback for me over the years.  
 

Those issues others complain of not being able to roll back are not ones I have to worry about. If/when Roon make it possible to do full rollbacks I will then move to a dedicated server though not until that occurs.
 

I understand your perspective.  I have only once had an issue with a ROON update.  For me it has been very reliable.  My use of ROON whilst it is constant it is also not overly sophisticated.  I have just one playlist.  I could easily start again.  The SQ is of paramount importance for me

 

John

[MattyW]

Yes, overall reliability is the main thing for me and I’ve little patience with technical issues when home. I understand my priorities in this are likely quite different to others but still worthwhile putting out there in case the OP has a similar viewpoint.

Edited July 6 by MattyW

[Irek]

From the sound quality point of view, both Wiim pro + external DAC or Roon are good enough for background music. Although, roon has a very clean sound so it might appear to have a "better " sound.  

For critical listening I can recommend Primare np5 mk2, it's just amazing when it comes to SQ. 

 

 

[John Williamson]

I was an early user of ROON and was aware of needs for clean data management from server to endpoint.  I tried using MacBook and MacMini units as ROON server, but Apple's penchant for constant system upgrades and other interruptions caused me to buy a Small Green Computer SonicTransporter.  It is 6-7 years old now, but I cannot fault the performance. 

 

I also used a microRendu as ROON endpoint (plus galvanic separation fro the Ethernet interface).  The microRendu has been replaced by a miniDSP Studio which is a digital-only DSP  and includes DIRAC LIVE plus multiple subwoofer management (I don't need the latter).

 

The digital output is directed to my Chord QUTEST DAC and Arcam amplification (Class G).

Some spare money was spent on room treatment and the result is superb.

 

The above combination of  SonicTransporter plus miniDSP is viable and potentially much more flexible (i.e. DIRAC, multiple subwoofer integration) than a ROON Nucleus. But perhaps for tech-oriented folk.

[fjs]

From what I understand of roon it would appear that some people have a misconception of what it does. It is purely a piece of software that allows one to use one ui to control all their source material and provides excellent metadata and access to useful information about their music. It does not improve or do anything else to sound quality although you can use its internal eq to tailer your music to your taste no different to say the Wiim or bluesound node. It is also likely that some people who use roon buy more expensive equipment which would naturally result in an improvement to sound quality but it’s because of better hardware and not because of roon. I personally do not use roon due to its cost and am quite happy using different ui for different equipment so I use Wiim ui, bluesound ui and lindmann ui depending on what streamer I’m using. If I had roon I could control all of these with roon ui. As a side issue, I have an external hdd attached to my bluesound node, is there anyway that I can adjust settings so that the Wiim pro can see and play the music on that hdd either by settings in the Wiim or node or dlna or something. This is the advantage of roon as I would not have this problem.

[MattyW]

2 hours ago, fjs said:

From what I understand of roon it would appear that some people have a misconception of what it does. It is purely a piece of software that allows one to use one ui to control all their source material and provides excellent metadata and access to useful information about their music. It does not improve or do anything else to sound quality although you can use its internal eq to tailer your music to your taste no different to say the Wiim or bluesound node. It is also likely that some people who use roon buy more expensive equipment which would naturally result in an improvement to sound quality but it’s because of better hardware and not because of roon. I personally do not use roon due to its cost and am quite happy using different ui for different equipment so I use Wiim ui, bluesound ui and lindmann ui depending on what streamer I’m using. If I had roon I could control all of these with roon ui. As a side issue, I have an external hdd attached to my bluesound node, is there anyway that I can adjust settings so that the Wiim pro can see and play the music on that hdd either by settings in the Wiim or node or dlna or something. This is the advantage of roon as I would not have this problem.

Aye the SoundAware D300REF or Silent Angel MU are both incredible streamers in terms of sonics though the MU still awaiting “Roon Ready” certification so I’m reliant on Airplay 2 for use with Roon presently which I find a bit flaky at times.

Edited August 10 by MattyW

[Assisi]

6 hours ago, fjs said:

It does not improve or do anything else to sound quality although

To a partial extent, your post seems to me to be an example of damning with faint praise.  You opinion is that ROON is okay but too expensive?  Amortise the expense over a few years and ROON becomes a listening pleasure bargain.  There is more to ROON than being just a useful UI with the information provision.   I have a perception that as being a ROON user over a considerable time, there has been an improvement in the SQ playback outcomes from time to time.  In my own case I wonder each time with an update, will there be a SQ improvement.  Sometimes yes often not so.  Next time?  Some forum members regularly comment that with an update that there is an improvement in SQ.  I do not frequently have the same perception as others.  Much of my listening pleasure is because of the quality of my setup.  ROON does its bit also.

 

 

A miniscule ROON negative is that one cannot go back to a previous update to compare.  A very big plus with ROON is the opportunity to go through known versions of a track.  With a track that I was listening to last night there was choice of over 800 other versions.  Fascinating to even select a few and compare.

 

John