Death of Japanese hifi, is hifi as a hobby not a young person's interest anymore?

[Sir Triode]

I find it sad that a lot of Japanese hifi companies from the heydays of the 70s/80s are no longer making hifi components anymore or have gone the way of the Dodo. There used to be Nakamichi, Sansui, Akai, Aiwa, Sony, JVC, NEC, Sanyo, Kenwood, Pioneer (not TAD high end).  The only companies left holding the fort are Yamaha, Denon/Marantz, Teac/Esoteric, Luxman, Rotel, Technics...(anymore?) 

 

Sure,  one could argue that some of those companies made mainly mid-fi components (SQ wise) at best.  But today, there isn't much in the way of choice to be had. And prices are not what they used to be even adjusted for inflation. 

 

I'm sure that there are lot more interesting things on offer now that compete with a young person's pocket money - e.g. drones, gaming, cars. 

 

Even though I "migrated" to high end audio in the late 80s and was made to see the "error of my ways" by more learned audiophiles about Japanese hifi. I still miss the heady days of 70s and 80s where Japanese hi-fi was all the rage.  The large VU meters, LED meters, the equalizers with the spectrum analyzers, the RTRs. You probably don't and won't see them being made anymore. I loved going to the hifi stores and just window shopping/lusting after the myriad of audio components (separates) on display as a young teen.

 

The irony is, had I purchased the 1988 Sony ES range of components (I was intending to buy) instead of my Marantz 94 mkII, B&W801 and Krell KSA80B combination, the Sony TA-NA77ES power amp alone is now worth more than the 2nd hand value of the Krell KSA80B I purchased. Funny how things work out. 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2024 by Sir Triode
Added more companies to the list

[grammefriday]

You can add Rotel to the list of those still producing.

Young people prefer convenience and compactness over quality and size. Not all obviously but the vast majority not just in Japan but globally.

[audiofeline]

Music in general doesn't play the same role in young people's lives as it did for older generations.  Musical identity was much stronger for older people, and there was much innovation occurring to maintain interest when they were young.  So an accompanying interest in hifi developed for many.  For younger generations music has been much more available and taken for granted, and there are more leisure options competing for interest (eg. movies, gaming, sneakers, etc).  And they have less exposure opportunities for live acoustic music, so they actually don't learn what music is supposed to sound like, so they are quite accepting of their bluetooth reproduction.   It's not surprising that, in general, they don't have the same appreciation for hifi. 

[Antipodean Brad]

Air Tight (from 1980s.)  And I don't mean your alibi.

[Sir Triode]

27 minutes ago, Antipodean Brad said:

Air Tight (from 1980s.)  And I don't mean your alibi.

Air Tight is more of a boutique High End brand though  - like Accuphase and Leben.

[betty boop]

add pioneer and onkyo/integra as also companies that have lost the plot...

 

technics seems to have had a resurrection.. 

 

that sony have completely let go of their wonderful heritage of their ES line is an absolute and utter tragedy ..say this as someone who owned one of their very wonder scd SACD players for many years...

 

teac isnt what it was ...granted esoteric is still around and doing wonderful things.. i remember the days in 90s when you could pick whether you wanted something with either a teac or esoteric badge...  and yes it was just a badge.. i chose teac for my transport i got... hehekept and enjoyed for many years... and was grand daddy for the awesome esoteric stuff these days ...

[Sir Triode]

13 minutes ago, betty boop said:

add pioneer and onkyo/integra as also companies that have lost the plot...

 

technics seems to have had a resurrection.. 

 

that sony have completely let go of their wonderful heritage of their ES line is an absolute and utter tragedy ..say this as someone who owned one of their very wonder scd SACD players for many years...

 

teac isnt what it was ...granted esoteric is still around and doing wonderful things.. i remember the days in 90s when you could pick whether you wanted something with either a teac or esoteric badge...  and yes it was just a badge.. i chose teac for my transport i got... hehekept and enjoyed for many years... and was grand daddy for the awesome esoteric stuff these days ...

 

Teac is till making affordable components,unfortunately just not distributed here by TEAC australia. 

 

https://teac.jp/int

 

Yes missed out on Onkyo and also Kenwood and Pioneer (I know they own TAD but that is a high end brand with pricing to match).

 

Onkyo were the first to go into HT and have been there ever since till the Gibson buy over then things went south.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2024 by Sir Triode

[Hergest]

I work with a lot of younger people behind a bar. They all listen to music but not one of them listen to it any other way than on a phone with earbuds or headphones and no one at all listens to music as I think a lot of us do, that is sitting down and concentrating on it. It's all just background. To be honest I'm surprised at the amount of companies still seemingly able to make a profit out of hifi.

[Sir Triode]

1 hour ago, grammefriday said:

You can add Rotel to the list of those still producing.

Young people prefer convenience and compactness over quality and size. Not all obviously but the vast majority not just in Japan but globally.

 

We housing becoming unaffordable in most developed and developing countries, I guess the younger generation don't have the space for a large system too. 

[Sir Triode]

Serendipitously, after posting this, I stumbled upon this article - https://www.audioholics.com/editorials/70s-stereo-gear 

and this one

https://www.audioholics.com/editorials/golden-age-of-audio

[Hergest]

4 minutes ago, Sir Triode said:

 

We housing becoming unaffordable in most developed and developing countries, I guess the younger generation don't have the space for a large system too. 

 

I dunno, Teac used to make some seriously good micro systems that would  satisfy anyone even if you lived in a shed. I think there's just a lack of interest in hifi systems as such.

[FR DRew]

3 hours ago, Sir Triode said:

The irony is, had I purchased the 1988 Sony ES range of components (I was intending to buy) instead of my Marantz 94 mkII, B&W801 and Krell KSA80B combination, the Sony TA-NA77ES power amp alone is now worth more than the 2nd hand value of the Krell KSA80B I purchased. Funny how things work out. 
 

 

 

I would be very surprised if the Sony sounded half as good as the Krell.  I just recently picked one up secondhand and it's mindblowingly good.  Some say one of the best amps Krell ever made.

[Sir Triode]

2 minutes ago, FR DRew said:

I would be very surprised if the Sony sounded half as good as the Krell.  I just recently picked one up secondhand and it's mindblowingly good.  Some say one of the best amps Krell ever made.

 

Of course, the Sony wouldn't hence the irony. Yes the 80B was one of the best Krell ever made - I bought two. Unforunately they are now long in tooth and will need recapping. Finding someone to do them is difficult and expensive. 

[Addicted to music]

5 hours ago, Sir Triode said:

I find it sad that a lot of Japanese hifi companies from the heydays of the 70s/80s are no longer making hifi components anymore or have gone the way of the Dodo. There used to be Nakamichi, Sansui, Akai, Aiwa, Sony, JVC, NEC, Sanyo, Kenwood, Pioneer (not TAD high end).  The only companies left holding the fort are Yamaha, Denon/Marantz, Teac/Esoteric, Luxman, Rotel, Technics...(anymore?) 

 

Sure,  one could argue that some of those companies made mainly mid-fi components (SQ wise) at best. 

 

 

 

There were other brands that made some of these legacy brands sound obsolete.   I had a Akai getto blaster that sounded so much more enjoyable than a full blown Teac Hi-Fi rack that was a pick out of Brashes,  remember them?   As a kid I heard a getto blaster made by Sharp that punched far above what was even possible!   And as I aged,  these brands were at its peak in specifications and performance,  its HiFi mags that were more biased to English and US  gear that gave the Asian players a bad rap,  certainly not mid-fi.  In the 70s to the 90s it was the Hi-Fi golden years…..  It’s also what you could go with FET/mosfet/vfet and how you structured that circuit to achieve benchmark specs.   Look at what some of these companies did with turntables,  it was whoever  had the perfected ground breaking technologies for there SOTA that they will never see a return….but play a statement for that brand!  Kenwood, Sansui, etc just a few were legendary in what they did. Nakamichi was legendary in there cassette tapes where there bottom of the range BX decks achieved ruler flat 20-20k on standard magnetic tapes according to Australian Hi-Fi,   And some of the tech used in there decks were 2nd to none!   Very disappointing to see what happen to such a legacy brand!   Sony and Philips partnership on the CD!  Philips also had some nice getto blasters!  
I don’t think that today is any better apart from D’Agostino etc that know what should be done,  today there lots of garbage out there that’s brought on by forums and speculations.   For example there was no such thing as mega dollar power cord back then, literally on heard of!  Or Audiophile Ethernet switches!  
It’s sad that the market has opted for more compact gear,  and I genuinely believe digital has had a huge impact on what we spend hence fewer Hi-Fi stores and some bricks and mortar has just disappeared.   Things like iPod and iPhone are now responsible,  and don’t be fooled,  some of Apples gear are very hard to beat for the money, so why spend $$$$.   The general mass market listens to music,  audiophiles used the music to listen to products…..

[Peterbean]

4 hours ago, Hergest said:

 

I dunno, Teac used to make some seriously good micro systems that would  satisfy anyone even if you lived in a shed. I think there's just a lack of interest in hifi systems as such.

There are some solidly priced modern Teac items on eBay these days , or there were last time I looked 

[Al.M]

I generally agree with what you are saying, but you are taking the hi end road of 1980s hifi as if everyone or more young people back then had Krells and the like, when in reality the majority were listening to really crap stuff like low end of Akai, Technics, Aiwa etc on rubbish cheap turntables, blurry sounding cassette players and FM with very limited collection of vinyl and cassettes, 50 to 100 albums or so, mostly relegated to a fixed position in a lounge room..
 

Compared today even your poorest student has a mobile phone with music streaming and storage for thousands of songs in the palm of their hand that is superior to any low to mid end cassette and usable on the go, in the car and at home. Most of them use average sounding $50 earbuds with limited bass, but some of them spend on higher quality $300 ones and it can get seriously good enough. About 5-10 years ago these young ones were into big $400 headphones but that trend is less now. None of this existed in the 1980s except for the Sony Walkman cassette. If you asked an average 1980s young person back then which era they would prefer, it would be an obvious choice. 

 

Most young people in the home music setup use their mob phone and earbuds or headphones with virtually unlimited music selection choice or mostly a mono speaker with streamed music, which is a compromise and if they do reach out for an audio system it is usually a low to mid fi home theatre setup, which is still superior to an average 1980s stereo hifi. For those that want to go high end stereo there is just as much or different new brands, technology and concepts available not limited in any way if they have the funds.
 

Also in terms of the genre of music artists and styles available today vs 1980s I would argue young people have an incredible amount, breadth and depth to enjoy and if they want explore 1980s tunes its all there at the flick of music device app.

Edited June 22, 2024 by Al.M

[FR DRew]

I will say, there’s something seriously odd going on when I can buy a second hand Krell 140w class A for less than a 25w Sugden class A…

[POV]

I kind of think that brand perception is a huge part of the problem for Japanese brands.   Technics current range of source and amp components are superb sounding components by any standard.  But run a poll here on Stereonet as to how many members have seriously looked at, yet alone auditioned any of them!?   I have had so many people here post derisive comments about my love for Technics.  Outside of SNA I have a group of audiophile mates and almost without exception they have all laughed at my comments about the Technics range until they come and actually listen to it.  In that kind of environment, where brand snobbery is so rampant, the Japanese brands have limited scope to penetrate the market, irrespective of how good their components may sound.

[Sir Triode]

6 minutes ago, POV said:

I kind of think that brand perception is a huge part of the problem for Japanese brands.   Technics current range of source and amp components are superb sounding components by any standard.  But run a poll here on Stereonet as to how many members have seriously looked at, yet alone auditioned any of them!?   I have had so many people here post derisive comments about my love for Technics.  Outside of SNA I have a group of audiophile mates and almost without exception they have all laughed at my comments about the Technics range until they come and actually listen to it.  In that kind of environment, where brand snobbery is so rampant, the Japanese brands have limited scope to penetrate the market, irrespective of how good their components may sound.

 

I don't think it applies to all Japanese brands though, e.g. Koetsu, Accuphase, Kondo, Esoteric, Micro-Seiki, TAD, Air-Tight are all quite revered. Perhaps because Technics used to make more mid-fi or perceived mid-fi components in the past (i.e. DJ turntables) which is why shaking off that reputation is difficult.

[Al.M]

1 hour ago, POV said:

Technics current range

It’s the 1980s Technics low end budget range that most of us remember at the time to compete with the other mass budget brands like Akai, Aiwa etc and the reputation.

[betty boop]

my recollection of  technics in 1980s (mid to late) was they did make some nice gear ? I dont recall it as low end budget ? 

 

i recall hearing a technics amp driving yam ns1000ms as happens and they made a nice combo ... 

 

re aiwa... i had a little aiwa walkman and it was VERY good ! aiwa made some amazing stuff for the time... infact their walkmans were very good ! not sure on any of their other gear... 

[Sir Triode]

3 minutes ago, betty boop said:

my recollection of  technics in 1980s (mid to late) was they did make some nice gear ? I dont recall it as low end budget ? 

 

i recall hearing a technics amp driving yam ns1000ms as happens and they made a nice combo ... 

 

re aiwa... i had a little aiwa walkman and it was VERY good ! aiwa made some amazing stuff for the time... infact their walkmans were very good ! not sure on any of their other gear... 

 

It wasn't low end budget stuff but definitely not High End which they are marketing their products at now.  They were on par with the Sony ES and Yamaha gear.

[Bisguittin]

1 hour ago, Sir Triode said:

 

I don't think it applies to all Japanese brands though, e.g. Koetsu, Accuphase, Kondo, Esoteric, Micro-Seiki, TAD, Air-Tight are all quite revered. Perhaps because Technics used to make more mid-fi or perceived mid-fi components in the past (i.e. DJ turntables) which is why shaking off that reputation is difficult.

Couldn't agree more. Japanese audiophiles still have their modern and vintage hi-end domestic products on the top top shelf. As mentioned, Accuphase, Micro-Seiki, and Kenwood for example command God-like status and frequently God-like prices. Technics and some other lesser lights, notwithstanding their electronic prowess, didn't enjoy the same degree of adulation.

 

[POV]

49 minutes ago, Al.M said:

It’s the 1980s Technics low end budget range that most of us remember at the time to compete with the other mass budget brands like Akai, Aiwa etc and the reputation.

 

Surely it deos not make sense though to judge a company off what it was doing 40 years ago?

[POV]

16 minutes ago, Bisguittin said:

Couldn't agree more. Japanese audiophiles still have their modern and vintage hi-end domestic products on the top top shelf. As mentioned, Accuphase, Micro-Seiki, and Kenwood for example command God-like status and frequently God-like prices. Technics and some other lesser lights, notwithstanding their electronic prowess, didn't enjoy the same degree of adulation.

 

 

in 2024 though: Technics > Accuphase.