darth vader Posted January 24 Posted January 24 Hey guys. Trying to get wi-fi and ethernet to my shed where my listening room is. Pacing the cable length its roughly 40 meter minimum (allowing for in wall distance each end) I'm having trouble finding cat8 cable over 25m. I can find heaps of cat6 up to 50m and I'm pretty sure cat6 can do 100m(?) I'm loathe to put older tech in when newer stuff is here, if I can. It will need to be buried for most of the length. Does anyone know the advisable max length for cat8 cable? I have Starlink in the house and its awesome. I've ordered a network adaptor. I've considered wi-fi boosters but I want to be able to construct an ethernet that can handle some music duties. I'm not confident wireless would give the quality/speed I'll need. I'm looking at 30m line of sight with brick and tin walls. I looked at getting Starlink mobile but the plan cost is considerable and I'm not sure if it would solve the issue. Any advice or suggestions would be great. Cheers
bob_m_54 Posted January 24 Posted January 24 Quote CAT8 cable has a maximum Permanent Link Length of 24 m (78 ft) and a maximum Channel length of 30 m (98 ft). This cable length is substantially shorter than the other categories with a 100 m (328 ft) length. The cable is also quite rigid and can be more challenging to install and terminate. https://cc-techgroup.com/cat-8-ethernet-cable/
bob_m_54 Posted January 24 Posted January 24 I reckon you'll be fine with CAT6 cable. I use CAT5E for a similar distance to my shed, and have no problem streaming music or videos.
darth vader Posted January 24 Author Posted January 24 Thanks Bob. That kind of backs up my thinking. @bob_m_54 Have you tried any wireless solutions over that distance?
bob_m_54 Posted January 24 Posted January 24 2 hours ago, darth vader said: Thanks Bob. That kind of backs up my thinking. @bob_m_54 Have you tried any wireless solutions over that distance? I did, ages ago, with very poor results, due to it being a colourbond shed, and brick house about 40M apart. But since then I added a WAP in my lounge room, and this morning I wondered why my laptop in the shed had constant drop outs. Then realised that it was connected to the WAP in the lounge room, and not the one in the shed... But it was still better than when I first tried it.. Cable is the go.. ;-)
Addicted to music Posted January 24 Posted January 24 I’ve got cat 3 wired in the house…… ditched the whole lot and went a wifi mesh, never looked back…. Another way is power adapters
bob_m_54 Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Addicted to music said: I’ve got cat 3 wired in the house…… ditched the whole lot and went a wifi mesh, never looked back…. Another way is power adapters What about out to a shed 40M away, is in the OP's situation? Edit: Cat 3 - 16 Megabits per second data transfer bandwidth Cat 5E - 1 Gigabits per second data transfer bandwidth Edited January 24 by bob_m_54 1
Addicted to music Posted January 24 Posted January 24 27 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said: What about out to a shed 40M away, is in the OP's situation? Edit: Cat 3 - 16 Megabits per second data transfer bandwidth Cat 5E - 1 Gigabits per second data transfer bandwidth i don’t use any cables, 100% all mesh…. I get @internet speeds at every corner of the house no issues, even standing at the furthest corner of the property. And that involves main and satellite, apparently 3 units package will cover that 40m distance no issues at internet speed. The OP can go cat6 if he has it already, not sure why cat 8 Ethernet over power is another way considering but I ditched that idea. 1
darth vader Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 Havn't got the cable yet. Was about to pull the trigger on it but guessed I should ask people smarter than me. Cable cost isn't much, possibly cheaper than wifi hardware but add in the cost of underground works and it gets exy. Thinking of getting a cheap 40m cat6 (under $50) and just try it. Cheap cable won't be adequate for underground. @Addicted to musiccan you recall how much your mesh cost you?
Addicted to music Posted January 25 Posted January 25 (edited) 22 minutes ago, darth vader said: Havn't got the cable yet. Was about to pull the trigger on it but guessed I should ask people smarter than me. Cable cost isn't much, possibly cheaper than wifi hardware but add in the cost of underground works and it gets exy. Thinking of getting a cheap 40m cat6 (under $50) and just try it. Cheap cable won't be adequate for underground. @Addicted to musiccan you recall how much your mesh cost you? Of memory around the $430 for a ORBI RB50 that consists of just the main unit and the satellite, now that’s going aback 4yrs. The latest equivalent is 2-3x the price but does wifi6 and has the latest tech. If you google it, there’s cheaper brands including google products that consists of 3 units that’s around 1/2 the price and will be wifi6 compatible. I’m waiting till this thing dies and then I’ll replace it as I’ve never had an issue.. The reason i have cat3 all roughed up in the house because that’s was only available back in 2006 when i was building the place so it was easy to rough it in before plaster is hung. I don’t think cat5 was out at the time and I got 300m for free. Edited January 25 by Addicted to music
Neo Posted January 25 Posted January 25 Would recommend this cable if you want to try on the cheap so to speak Neo https://www.4cabling.com.au/50m-cat-6a-s-ftp-lszh-ethernet-network-cable-yellow.html 2
bob_m_54 Posted January 25 Posted January 25 15 hours ago, Addicted to music said: i don’t use any cables, 100% all mesh…. I get @internet speeds at every corner of the house no issues, even standing at the furthest corner of the property. And that involves main and satellite, apparently 3 units package will cover that 40m distance no issues at internet speed. The OP can go cat6 if he has it already, not sure why cat 8 Ethernet over power is another way considering but I ditched that idea. Yes, but I doubt the mesh system would work in my shed. For a start it has to travel through an interior wall, then a brick wall at the house, then 40 odd meters to the shed, then through a colourbond steel wall and a sheet of sarking, before it reaches the devices in the shed. The reason I do get sporadic wifi from my newer WAP in the house, is that it lines up with the glass doors at the back of the house, and the glass doors in the shed. When I built my shed in Sep 2006, CAT 5E was available (since 2001), so that's what I used.. It actually replaced my original RG58/U Thin Ethernet cable network I had setup for my old shed.. https://www.flukenetworks.com/blog/cabling-chronicles/ethernet-cable-history
Volunteer El Tel Posted January 25 Volunteer Posted January 25 2 hours ago, darth vader said: Cheap cable won't be adequate for underground. It will be fine if it is run through a conduit, and you should run conduit. Conduit could be as simple as purchasing plastic pipe sections plus joins and burying it 30 cm deep - a cheap option. You can buy a bundle of 25mm x 1500mm galvanised pipe for under 40 bucks if you want to splash-out. 25mm section is big enough to pull a terminated UTP cable through, so you can buy pre-made rather than cutting a custom length off a drum and terminating it with plugs yourself. Otherwise use an armoured cable, but make sure it is rated for outdoor use. I would go galvanised pipe, commercial CAT6 like Belden or Panduit and be done with it - peace of mind that nobody is going to accidentally put a garden spade through it in the future. By the by, CAT8 will ground the devices at either end to each other which complicates things particularly when used on a streamer. Most of the time you do not want common grounds - if you notice a difference when listening using a continuous shielded cable over an unshielded cable, this is likely due to design choices made by the manufacturer of the streamer. This has been said and done to death in other threads, so search the sub forum if you wish to read the detail. CAT8 can be run as far as you want, the specs for CAT8 and the <30m length is based on running at its highest transmission rates. It will work with 1Gbps speeds at 100m easily if you have the ability to terminate it yourself (a bit of a waste of time and money though). In all but the harshest EMI environments, unshielded CAT6 is the answer. Twisted pair cabling, by design, has inherent noise rejection properties. The only reason for CAT8 type shielded cables is with Data Centres where higher MHz specs are required to support 10Gbps and upwards. I've run a fair amount of CAT6 in my life in industrial and commercial environments and the harshest spaces are elevator shafts and close (within 0..5m) of manufacturing machines. There is not enough EMI in a domestic environment to bother yourself with as long as you're not running your network cable and power cables zip-tied together for 20 metres plus. 7
Addicted to music Posted January 25 Posted January 25 (edited) 6 hours ago, bob_m_54 said: When I built my shed in Sep 2006, CAT 5E was available (since 2001), so that's what I used.. It actually replaced my original RG58/U Thin Ethernet cable network I had setup for my old shed.. https://www.flukenetworks.com/blog/cabling-chronicles/ethernet-cable-history @bob_m_54 I stand corrected, I remembered still having a box left in the garage, so I went and checked becuase I thought I was given cat 3 at the time. It turns out it’s 5e. . I thought I scored cat 3 because whoever gave it to me for free said they were upgrading and when you receive things for free…..bring it on regardless . I’m at a loss of why I used 3 boxes of this stuff roughed in during the build and it’s never been used…… Edited: I might do an @andyr and convert them to speaker cables Edited January 25 by Addicted to music 1
andyr Posted January 25 Posted January 25 1 hour ago, Addicted to music said: Edited: I might do an @andyr and convert them to speaker cables You could do that, Peter - it sould sound pretty good. Belden 1503A is very similar to my own 1585A in that: it's solid-core but the wire insulation is different. (Whether this makes a difference ... I have NFI. )
muon* Posted January 25 Posted January 25 Ethernet over Power would be a last resort, especially for audio. 4
andyr Posted January 25 Posted January 25 4 minutes ago, muon* said: Ethernet over Power would be a last resort, especially for audio. Ethernet over power, I suggest ... is a disaster, noise-wise, for audio. 1
bob_m_54 Posted January 25 Posted January 25 12 hours ago, Addicted to music said: I might do an @andyr and convert them to speaker cables As in multi strand cables with individually insulated strands??
MrBurns84 Posted January 25 Posted January 25 21 hours ago, Neo said: Would recommend this cable if you want to try on the cheap so to speak Neo https://www.4cabling.com.au/50m-cat-6a-s-ftp-lszh-ethernet-network-cable-yellow.html Seriously though..Cat6a is the best for wiring around homes. CAT8 is quite thick and can be a major pita to wire long distances and it isnt necessary for home use. 12 hours ago, andyr said: Ethernet over power, I suggest ... is a disaster, noise-wise, for audio. Yep EoP is just asking for it audio wise. Better off with a mesh wifi network. 19 hours ago, El Tel said: In all but the harshest EMI environments, unshielded CAT6 is the answer. Twisted pair cabling, by design, has inherent noise rejection properties. The only reason for CAT8 type shielded cables is with Data Centres where higher MHz specs are required to support 10Gbps and upwards. I've run a fair amount of CAT6 in my life in industrial and commercial environments and the harshest spaces are elevator shafts and close (within 0..5m) of manufacturing machines. There is not enough EMI in a domestic environment to bother yourself with as long as you're not running your network cable and power cables zip-tied together for 20 metres plus. Ditto..best advise from a tech perspective regarding cat cabling. Even IF you run a 10Gbp network at home, Cat6a is good enough.
bob_m_54 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 On 02/02/2024 at 9:46 AM, krebetman said: How about fibre? Metamucil? 8
dbastin Posted February 26 Posted February 26 On 02/02/2024 at 6:46 AM, krebetman said: How about fibre? @darth vader, over 40m I would personally be avoiding cable. Fibre I reckon would be better, despite the UTP Cat 6 or 6a will do the job fibre will absolutely not collect any rubbish enroute, but you still have to dig holes and use conduit. Wireless is used in many high demand situations. From hour to shed is not a challenge for wifi, then after the receiver in the shed you can use fibre or cable to get to the hifi. I know of someone in a similar situation using MikroTik Wireless Wire.
TerryO Posted February 26 Posted February 26 (edited) Just out of interest, I have Cat 6a, 7 and 8, my house is actually wired with all three different cables to each of the three listening rooms, plus there is a Wifi Mesh system. For what it is worth to my ears I actually prefer using 6a cable over the rest when it comes to SQ. …. Cheers Edited February 26 by TerryO 1
dbastin Posted February 26 Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, TerryO said: Just out of interest, I have Cat 6a, 7 and 8, my house is actually wired with all three different cables to each of the three listening rooms, plus there is a Wifi Mesh system. For what it is worth to my ears I actually prefer 6a over the rest when it comes to SQ. …. Cheers Interesting, I'd guess Cat 7 and 8 are probably typically shielded by that is not as predictable for Cat 6a, is yours UTP, STP ... or what?
Addicted to music Posted May 5 Posted May 5 I haven’t done it, but most clients use the cheapest there is, and when one site dumps 30-40gb on a server from a workstation I wonder how effective going to a higher spec cable really is….. 2
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