What should I expect from 3-5k reel to reel?

[ikhuong]

playing music mostly on vinyl, interested to try tape at some point.

 

would a 3-5k range tape deck like Revox a77/b77 match a high end vinyl setup for much lsess ( being vintage)?

 

or should I forget about reel to reel if not that serious, never heard reel to reel to be honest,

 

thanks,

Edited December 19, 2023 by ikhuong

[Neo]

Go to Len Wallis in Lane Cove and have a listen, they have a revox unit in their reference room. 
Neo

[Fidelity Sounds]

1 hour ago, ikhuong said:

playing music mostly on vinyl, interested to try tape at some point.

 

would a 3-5k range tape deck like Revox a77/b77 match a high end vinyl setup for much lsess ( being vintage)?

 

or should I forget about reel to reel if not that serious, never heard reel to reel to be honest,

 

thanks,

Reel to Reel ?

 

[Neo]

25 minutes ago, Fidelity Sounds said:

Reel to Reel ?

 

https://reeltoreeltech.com/revox-tape-deck-overview/

[ikhuong]

6 hours ago, Fidelity Sounds said:

Reel to Reel ?

 

not at your level, just a taste

[ENIGMA]

On 20/12/2023 at 10:35 AM, ikhuong said:

 

would a 3-5k range tape deck like Revox a77/b77 match a high end vinyl setup for much less ( being vintage)?

 

You would have to hear it for yourself.

 

I have a few decks and the A77 is not a low fi/level deck offering - its a simplified Studer (all the Revox branded machines are). All the parts inside a Studer branded and the engineering is superb, its underrated and i find it to be a very enjoyable player.  Being a early model its tape drive can be a bit harsher on tape (RR/FF) as later machines are gentler (B77) but mechanically the accuracy is excellent. 

 

The B77 is really an updated A77 - i have 4 here i'm working on. They are larger and very much the same in the way they are put together - similar part layout and logic in the design. The A77 is transistor, B77 is an IC incorporated electronical design and this is what starts to divide people on which one sounds better. Both are amazing and equally high standard.

 

Many people choose B77 because of it being a younger updated 80's design and preference to its sound. 

 

From here you start to get to a PR99 which is a B77 with Studer tape locater control and a big lean towards Studer professional balanced audio output for professional use. The record and output boards are now very Studer in design.  

 

The biggest issue you will have is the limitation and cost of proper recorded tapes (albums). This is the most expensive format you can get into - and, if you really have an itch for a professional studio machine - its another level of playback but at the cost of a good used car. 

 

The answer in my opinion is yes but like vinyl, you need to have the machine working right and also important - the right quality tape recording to play as well.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by ENIGMA

[Addicted to music]

Not long ago there was a Studer reel to reel at one of the Melb HiFi show.  1st time I heard reel to reel studio quality.   Not my cup of tea,  with some of the old recordings tape fade was one of the issues,  then with a different recording that some engineer did with a DAT in the same room that was played on vinyl was just sublime.   Reel to reel tape will never match or better digital process but if you think otherwise and think the reel to reel is the way to go then good for you.  It’s like many other things including digital photography and the latest digital TV with up to 4-8k I’d bet no recording engineer will be playing around with Hi8 tapes,  or go back to low res CRT Monitors….that are plague with inaccurate issues that’s inherent to that media.  But we live in a strange world where influencers bring back trends that defy logic 

[Robbiefest]

Another option to high quality tape was VHS HIFI. Ie, get a high quality vhs video recorder and use it in hifi recording mode and you'll get fabulous results. I used to use higher quality VHS tapes. You can store many hours of music on a vhs tape and it should out perform reel to reel machines as the heads spin at a very high rate. The machines I had also had tape markers so you could mark the tape at the end of a recording. You'd press the track selection on the remote and it would go to the next recording. 

[Addicted to music]

44 minutes ago, Robbiefest said:

Another option to high quality tape was VHS HIFI. Ie, get a high quality vhs video recorder and use it in hifi recording mode and you'll get fabulous results. I used to use higher quality VHS tapes. You can store many hours of music on a vhs tape and it should out perform reel to reel machines as the heads spin at a very high rate. The machines I had also had tape markers so you could mark the tape at the end of a recording. You'd press the track selection on the remote and it would go to the next recording. 

yep, 

 

Better alternative than reel to reel and it’s availability.   
any Panasonic HiFI capable VHS will give you awesome playback 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Addicted to music

[ikhuong]

haha I have started to get lost

 

Let me simplify my questions to

tenured reel-to-reel  lovers . Can well-working 5k Reel-to-reel and a “rare” tape beat a 30k Vinyl well-setup in term of dynamic and details?  Someone might say it is not a fare shootout as different budget range but please consider those tape recorders means for professional recording in the golden age of hifi.

 

A 1000 square meter house land in Greater Sydney area 1960 costed £5000 pounds, a Studder A807 were $12,500 or A810 were around $22,000 on released days

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by ikhuong

[Addicted to music]

29 minutes ago, ikhuong said:

haha I have started to get lost

 

Let me simplify my questions to

tenured reel-to-reel  lovers . Can well-working 5k Reel-to-reel and a “rare” tape beat a 30k Vinyl well-setup in term of dynamic and details?  Someone might say it is not a fare shootout as different budget range but please consider those tape recorders means for professional recording in the golden age of hifi.

 

A 1000 square meter house land in Greater Sydney area 1960 costed £5000 pounds, a Studder A807 were $12,500 or A810 were around $22,000 on released days

 

thats not a comparison,  they have there strengths and weakness.  
 

A 1990 21” CRT Sony Trinatron would have cost $3-4k

 

today 55” minimum LCD panels.  Are Hi Def:  4-8k. With digital control and graduation  around $2-4k.  Beats the CRT in colour gamut and shading control by almost a factor of 10.

 

what would you buy?  
 

R to R has had its day,  it’s a dinosaur,  let it be left alone in  a museum.

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Addicted to music

[muon*]

I recall a couple of years ago at the hifi show many were saying the best sound was in a room using R2R as a source.

[aussievintage]

Back when R2R prerecorded tapes were on sale at all music shops, at the same time as vinyl records, you had a choice - tape hiss or record surface noise.    When brand new, records were better, with very-near-zero background noise.  Typical commercial prerecorded R2R had tape hiss.  However, after some time and playing, the records start to get noisy unless you are very careful. 

 

Later in the day, newer tape formulations and Dolby noise reduction helped cure tape hiss, but by then R2R was dieing (had died) out as a commercial format. Some old R2R tape can still be good, but some types of tape have become brittle and distorted, and others suffer the dreaded tape rot.   From this point of view, vinyl records have survived the best.

[Addicted to music]

2 hours ago, muon* said:

I recall a couple of years ago at the hifi show many were saying the best sound was in a room using R2R as a source.

were you there? 
 

what they didn’t tell you was that during that session they played a vinyl version of some live recording that an engineer did just for giggles on DAT that they got hold of as a demo recording on vinyl… no comparison.  That recording was at another level,  just raised the benchmark that R2R can’t reach  Did they say that?  and you had to be there the entire session…
As I said good on you if you wanna pursue a dead format 

 

9 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

Not long ago there was a Studer reel to reel at one of the Melb HiFi show.  1st time I heard reel to reel studio quality.   Not my cup of tea,  with some of the old recordings tape fade was one of the issues,  then with a different recording that some engineer did with a DAT in the same room that was played on vinyl was just sublime.   Reel to reel tape will never match or better digital process but if you think otherwise and think the reel to reel is the way to go then good for you.  It’s like many other things including digital photography and the latest digital TV with up to 4-8k I’d bet no recording engineer will be playing around with Hi8 tapes,  or go back to low res CRT Monitors….that are plague with inaccurate issues that’s inherent to that media.  But we live in a strange world where influencers bring back trends that defy logic 

 

[Doctor Faustus]

On 20/12/2023 at 11:13 AM, Neo said:

Go to Len Wallis in Lane Cove and have a listen, they have a revox unit in their reference room. 
Neo

Is that playing pre recorded tapes ie pro studio and not dubs from vinyl? Or even those limited edition re mastered tapes you can buy for several hundred us$ ?

Edited December 28, 2023 by Doctor Faustus

[Doctor Faustus]

On 26/12/2023 at 8:32 AM, Addicted to music said:

thats not a comparison,  they have there strengths and weakness.  
 

A 1990 21” CRT Sony Trinatron would have cost $3-4k

 

today 55” minimum LCD panels.  Are Hi Def:  4-8k. With digital control and graduation  around $2-4k.  Beats the CRT in colour gamut and shading control by almost a factor of 10.

 

what would you buy?  
 

R to R has had its day,  it’s a dinosaur,  let it be left alone in  a museum.

 

...but it looks so good... those large metal reels rotating and vu meters flickering ... hypnotic on the eyes (not the ears)

[Robbiefest]

9 minutes ago, Doctor Faustus said:

...but it looks so good... those large metal reels rotating and vu meters flickering ... hypnotic on the eyes (not the ears)

Nothing wrong with investing in vintage gear and formats if you want to. I played 78rpm records for years on a nice gramaphone and really liked the sound. 

[Neo]

47 minutes ago, Doctor Faustus said:

Is that playing pre recorded tapes ie pro studio and not dubs from vinyl? Or even those limited edition re mastered tapes you can buy for several hundred us$ ?

Professionally recorded reel from inakoustik. 
Neo

[Addicted to music]

6 hours ago, Doctor Faustus said:

...but it looks so good... those large metal reels rotating and vu meters flickering ... hypnotic on the eyes (not the ears)

knock yourself out!   

 

[Neo]

[ikhuong]

45 minutes ago, Neo said:

Looks good, was the Inakustik tape made from an analog or digital recording?

[Neo]

30 minutes ago, ikhuong said:

Looks good, was the Inakustik tape made from an analog or digital recording?

No idea. But it sounds very good last couple of times I had a listen. 
Neo

[Neo]

https://www.technologyfactory.eu/en/music/master-tapes/inakustik-mastertape-great-cover-versions/a-18835-10001157

[ikhuong]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

https://www.technologyfactory.eu/en/music/master-tapes/inakustik-mastertape-great-cover-versions/a-18835-10001157

"The transfer of the tapes to the professional tape type "Recording The Masters SM 468" is done via calibrated and carefully maintained studio tape machines of the type Studer A 80 (38 cm / sec) and Telefunken M 15 / 21 (19cm / sec) directly from the original master"

Finger crossed for good sound, but the price is not dear,

Edited December 29, 2023 by ikhuong

[Neo]

It’s a niche product that’s costly to make so it’s to be expected. 
Like I said the sound is very good and it’s worth taking a trip to LWA and having a listen 

Neo