Francis T Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 Hi, I have a Swedish Primare i25 Prisma streaming amplifier and Melbourne made Osborn Reference Elite bookshelf speakers. I enjoy Classical, Jazz, Rock, Folk-Rock music. I used, until recently, Roon and Tidal Masters to stream music. Had to cut down on expenses. Trying Amazon High resolution but it doesn’t sound as good. Although we use iOS at home, not too enamoured of Apple Lossless, but I may be forced to use it. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Hydrology Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 It depends whether when you mean "best" is it best for sound quality or for sheer volume of musical choices? If its all about sound quality (and they pay the highest royalties back to the artists) then I would go Qobuz. However Spotify and Apple probably have the largest database of music. If you haven't tried Qobuz yet, here is a free, 2 month trial, courtesy of @Frank Prowse Hi-Fi 7
Volunteer El Tel Posted October 11, 2023 Volunteer Posted October 11, 2023 Thanks for sharing that @Hydrology. I hope it helps out a few members. OP's question is very expansive and doubtless there will be 5 or more answers that are right for each of the replying posters and their respective circumstances. As for OP, the only way you can be sure is to trial one or more services in succession. If you are bound by subscription costs then some platforms are going to rule themselves out quite quickly. If quality is important, Spotify is unlikely to be your first choice. I agree on the quality of Qobuz and that's why I use it, and I do all my playback through Roon. That ticks my use-case box. It won't work for you on cost, but Roon is a luxury on top of Quboz subscription for sure. (Actually, I am now so invested in Roon that it is no longer a luxury for me, but a necessity due to its ability to serve-up new and interesting music based on my library and preferences). 1 1
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 I think tidal and qobuz are around the same money so if tidal was too expensive I’m assuming qobuz would be too? If Amazon doesn’t sound as good maybe try apple, it’s the best value lossless. But I’d certainly try and get a free trial for Apple Music too so you can compare qobuz as above and see if it’s worth the extra $$$. everything comes at a cost and it’s just a matter of where your value appreciation sits.
Snoopy8 Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 A "family" subscription of Qobuz will give the best sound and save you money... 1
figjam Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 Getting hard to find these days. Been nothing on Ozbargain for over two years.
Hydrology Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) You can get into Qobuz for AUD$16.66 per month and it will sound brilliant. While the cost of living has increased, this monthly charge for access to God-knows how many millions of tracks isn't going to break the bank. If it is, forgo a couple of coffees a week and you wont notice the extra cost. Edited October 11, 2023 by Hydrology 3
Neo Posted October 11, 2023 Posted October 11, 2023 The best service is the one you will actually listen to. For me Spotify wins hands down, yes the quality may not be there but the way the algorithm works after you finish your favorite album it continues. I often catch myself listening well past my artist of choice and thoroughly enjoy the playlist generated. They have extensive library, in many respects bigger than competition. Have trial of all and decide for yourself Neo 4
Volunteer El Tel Posted October 11, 2023 Volunteer Posted October 11, 2023 42 minutes ago, Neo said: The best service is the one you will actually listen to. For me Spotify wins hands down, yes the quality may not be there but the way the algorithm works after you finish your favorite album it continues. I often catch myself listening well past my artist of choice and thoroughly enjoy the playlist generated. They have extensive library, in many respects bigger than competition. Have trial of all and decide for yourself Neo Yeah +1 on this. We have a paid Spotify sub for use when outside of the house. Yeah, we have ARC for Roon, but if one of us is out and about and the other is listening at home it can get sketchy. So fallback is Spotify on the move - deals better with sketchy cellular data coverage as track file sizes are smaller. When added to the fact that hi-res is wasted with background noise in the car (tyre, wind and road noise etc) and on public transport, then Spotify isn't just adequate, it's the only choice (their algorithm is better still than Roon's at serving up related music.
Francis T Posted October 11, 2023 Author Posted October 11, 2023 Thanks guys. I appreciate your help. I subscribed to Roon for two years thinking it was $149 a year. After my wife transitioned to part time work due to her health, I thought I should help out by cutting costs. Imagine my horror when I found that I had actually been paying AU$243 a year for Roon . A lifetime subscription costs nearly AU$ 1400. Tidal Masters was $24 a month. Quobuz is cheaper at AU$16.66 and I can stream it straight to my amplifier. I presently have an Apple One subscription $21.95 AUD. This is useful for the extra memory available on iCloud that I share with my wife. I also have Amazon Prime for $9.99 AUD. This gives me free postage when buying on Amazon. I’m leaning towards trying Quobuz. Although commonsense suggests I use Apple Lossless. I can’t get the joy I got listening to Tidal Masters through Roon. I was in heaven. I work 6 days a week. It’s not worth it. I’m being selfish. I should really sacrifice my pleasure and listen to Spotify or YouTube music.
Francis T Posted October 12, 2023 Author Posted October 12, 2023 My apologies. I was tired and should have gone to sleep. I will do my best to hear good audio and drink good coffee on my days off. And listen on headphones on other nights. 2
POV Posted October 12, 2023 Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) On 11/10/2023 at 7:36 PM, Neo said: The best service is the one you will actually listen to. For me Spotify wins hands down, yes the quality may not be there but the way the algorithm works after you finish your favorite album it continues. I often catch myself listening well past my artist of choice and thoroughly enjoy the playlist generated. They have extensive library, in many respects bigger than competition. Have trial of all and decide for yourself Neo Yes Spotify algorithm is really excellent and couple with it's huge library it's a great service for discovery. Roon's algorithm is also pretty excellent though I find, and often have the same expereince you describe with Roon... Edited October 12, 2023 by POV
POV Posted October 12, 2023 Posted October 12, 2023 On 11/10/2023 at 12:45 PM, El Tel said: . (Actually, I am now so invested in Roon that it is no longer a luxury for me, but a necessity due to its ability to serve-up new and interesting music based on my library and preferences). So much this, Roon is such an intrinisic part of my music listening I consider it to be essentially a non-negotiable! 23 hours ago, El Tel said: Yeah +1 on this. We have a paid Spotify sub for use when outside of the house. Yeah, we have ARC for Roon, but if one of us is out and about and the other is listening at home it can get sketchy. So fallback is Spotify on the move - deals better with sketchy cellular data coverage as track file sizes are smaller. When added to the fact that hi-res is wasted with background noise in the car (tyre, wind and road noise etc) and on public transport, then Spotify isn't just adequate, it's the only choice (their algorithm is better still than Roon's at serving up related music. I have to pay for a family Spotify sub for the family. They all use and love Spotify and it's Spotify Connect functionality. I use it when I'm in the car or on public transport etc and find it excellent for that.
Monty Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 Is a Spotify subscription the new 'guilty pleasure'? You know, like that Chic greatest hits record you kept because 'the wife and kids like it' but it's secretly better than all your Pink Floyd. Smiley face, etc...
Keith_W Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 My answer would be: none of them. Tidal and Qobuz: best for general use, not so great if you only listen to classical music, like me. Huge selection of albums not available on either. Tidal Connect and Qobuz Connect are unable to cast audio from one device to another, so you have to use a third party app to do it - e.g. Roon, BubbleUPNP, or M-Connect. Spotify: no lossless tier, but by far the largest selection of music. Spotify is the ONLY streaming service that is able to cast from one device to another using their app. The other is Apple Music, but only between Apple devices (and I won't buy ANY Apple device). Idagio: best for classical music listeners like me, but unable to cast from one device to another, not even with third party apps. This is a dealbreaker for me. Amazon HD and Youtube: the sound quality is atrocious. Amazon HD has a very poor selection of classical music. Also unable to cast. For me it was about choosing the streaming service with the fewest flaws. Tidal is slightly better for classical than Qobuz, so that was what I chose.
Snoopy8 Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, Keith_W said: Tidal Connect and Qobuz Connect are unable to cast audio from one device to another, so you have to use a third party app to do it - e.g. Roon, BubbleUPNP, or M-Connect. Used to be. There are now more streamers which can do Tidal, Qobuz is behind. Tidal and Qobuz phone apps can cast to streamers which have the capability to receive.
Hydrology Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 17 hours ago, POV said: Yes Spotify algorithm is really excellent and couple with it's huge library it's a great service for discovery. Roon's algorithm is also pretty excellent though I find, and often have the same expereince you describe with Roon... Roon's algorithm is streets ahead of the competition. I use Innuos' Sense software for my critical listening, but for new music discovery I switch back to Roon which trumps all the other players, in my opinion.
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 On 11/10/2023 at 5:57 PM, Hydrology said: You can get into Qobuz for AUD$16.66 per month and it will sound brilliant. Thats great value, I always thought it was up around Tidal at $25ish 1
Volunteer El Tel Posted October 13, 2023 Volunteer Posted October 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, Hydrology said: Roon's algorithm is streets ahead of the competition. I use Innuos' Sense software for my critical listening, but for new music discovery I switch back to Roon which trumps all the other players, in my opinion. Spotify's algorithm is better with less data to go on. Roon's needs a decent sized library and some time to perform optimally. I was on Roon for a couple of years and then dropped-off as I stopped using Tidal and Qobuz was not available in Oz at the time. I accidentally scrubbed my Roon database that I was fully intending to restore to a new Roon instance once Qobuz became available in Oz (listening stats and a few other bits related to the 5k albums I have on my NAS was the only reason for wanting to restore the DB). I noticed until I bulked-up the Roon library with Qobuz albums, the algorithm would repeat a little too often. These days it is sweet for new discovery. I still enjoy the slightly less exploratory attitude of Spotify's algorithm when I am on the move, it is not repetitive, but it does hold to suggestions that are closer to the seed track. I find dedicated listening time does not happen in the car or out and about on headphones so am happy to be served-up Spotify's plat du jour under such circumstances.
Keith_W Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, Hydrology said: Roon's algorithm is streets ahead of the competition. Depends on what music you listen to. With classical, Roon is unable to find the album I want even though I know it physically exists on my HDD. Doing a search for "Beethoven Symphony" returns a bunch of useless results which contaminates the search. Some of the results will have "Beethoven" AND "Symphony", but quite often it will give you "Symphony" by other composers. Even if I am specific and do a search for "Hahn Bach Violin", Roon may not find the correct album. Apparently you have to do 2 searches - "Bach Violin" first, and then "focus" to "Hahn". Everything else I have tried manages to find what I am looking for in a single search. The only exception is Roon. I find Roon to be utterly useless, and I am disgusted by the price they are asking for such a frustrating piece of software. Even if it was free, I wouldn't use it because for me it is unusable.
Hydrology Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) At the risk of going off topic (ironically), Im beginning to think a lot of this talk of algorithms etc and the latter part of this thread is now going off topic. The OP has asked a question based on his situation - I believe its all been answered now for him, including with his own responses. Edited October 13, 2023 by Hydrology
Volunteer El Tel Posted October 13, 2023 Volunteer Posted October 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, Hydrology said: At the risk of going off topic (ironically), Im beginning to think a lot of this talk of algorithms etc and the latter part of this thread is now going off topic. The OP has asked a question based on his situation - I believe its all been answered now for him, including with his own responses. Whilst Roon algorithm is not really on topic, granted, the clarification on how good the Spotify algorithm is likely more apposite to OP and his apparent budget. It would be a consideration for many if they were looking for a one-stop streaming solution. Notwithstanding the point that pretty much all other considerations have now been answered. Your point is taken, and your concern for OP's plight and ensuring they are as informed as possible is truly admirable, but just FYI, if mod input is required based on a report or some other trigger, then moderation decisions on what is and what is not on topic will change depending on if the answer has already been reached. Right now, I believe we would be more inclined to allow the conversation more latitude as OP has their answer and no further clarifications are being sought.
wolster Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 For me, Qobuz for sitting down and listening to music. Spotify, however is more prominent in my life due to listening on the go and the amazing choice of quality podcasts. So much learning from some of the best minds on so many topics. The fact that Spotify Premium have now also added 15 hours of Audio Books per month makes it an absolute bargain. 2
warweary Posted November 13, 2024 Posted November 13, 2024 On 11/10/2023 at 11:56 AM, Hydrology said: It depends whether when you mean "best" is it best for sound quality or for sheer volume of musical choices? If its all about sound quality (and they pay the highest royalties back to the artists) then I would go Qobuz. However Spotify and Apple probably have the largest database of music. If you haven't tried Qobuz yet, here is a free, 2 month trial, courtesy of @Frank Prowse Hi-Fi Thank You!
Darren69 Posted November 13, 2024 Posted November 13, 2024 For me, a late adopting dinosaur, I found ROON excellent for a few years but lately it became so slow and clunky as to be unusable so Nucleus is sold and I have moved to the Bluesound Node X and associated app. This works perfectly first time every time. I am a convert to the Bluesound product. ROONS community is supportive but an unusual approach. So for me I find the Bluesound app and Node X combo as reliable as it gets so therefore my ‘best’ streaming setup that I can recommend. 4
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