Administrator Marc Posted October 2 Administrator Share Posted October 2 Around 2008, we implemented a new sub-forum called "The Great Debate". In the first few years, it served its purpose. StereoNET was a young, developing community, and most of its members were in the early stages of their audio journeys. Complex and advanced discussion threads were a bit confronting for the newer members (and still are), especially on topics such as double-blind testing. But the existence of this one sub-forum was a place where more advanced discussions could take place, and members could only actually see this sub-forum once they had around 100 posts to their account (from my vague memory). Over the years, the purpose of the sub-forum changed. It became a place where moderators could move any thread that became argumentative and only after early and light-handed intervention was unsuccessful. We've never enjoyed closing threads - it goes against the very purpose of this forum - any forum, for that matter. It's often been said in recent years that The Great Debate is where threads go to die, and there is some truth to that. The forum and the community have evolved over the years, much like the hobby, the industry, and the products themselves. There are many more advanced discussion threads today and each day now compared to a decade ago. We also only intervened when an obvious breach of the Website Guidelines was evident, and that was usually only when things got personal. We moderate this site in accordance with the guidelines mentioned above, and it saddens me to say that some members have learned how to very carefully toe the lines of those guidelines while remaining somewhat disruptive to what we like to call the "Spirit of StereoNET". With that in mind, and with some additional upcoming changes, we have rewritten the Website Guidelines, which will be released soon. You'll also hear more about the 'Spirit of StereoNET', as it will become what we agree to abide by when using the site and what we, as the Admin and Volunteer Moderators, use to guide us in handling situations and incidents that arise. We no longer feel The Great Debate serves its purpose. Soon, the threads within that sub-forum will be moved back into their relevant sub-forums, and it will be closed. Some existing threads may be merged; some will remain closed, others may be re-opened at our discretion. Moderation will align with the newly updated Website Guidelines, and, of course, with the "Spirit of StereoNET" in mind, and will apply across all subforums and topics. We need to be clear: the Admin/Volunteer Moderators of these forums are just as concerned as some members who have taken the time to let us know their concerns. There are small groups of members on both sides of many contentious subjects who are vocal in their beliefs and are unfortunately not participating in the forums with respect and the community's best interests in mind. Unfortunately, some members have become reluctant to contribute or share what they know and love because of fear of being told "they're wrong" or that their beliefs are not measurable. This is not OK, and the new Website Guidelines will address these issues and offer recourse for Administration and Volunteer Moderators to act swiftly and with clarity when this happens. We are sure you appreciate that we only want the best for StereoNET and its community, which has been nurtured for nearly two decades. The changes and the decisions we make, which have been carefully thought out and given the attention they deserve, ensure that the community is the best it can be today, but also into the future and for new generations as they discover the same passion we share. Sincerely, on behalf of the Admin and the Volunteer Moderators team. 12 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Closed but still archived and accessible to read? First post from 2008...there's a bit to read there still for some newbies among us (like myself). Don't envy you all the moderation duties in the hotly debated threads. Compliments for keeping a calm head @ the moderators. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted October 2 Author Administrator Share Posted October 2 2 minutes ago, Steff said: Closed but still archived and accessible to read? 17 minutes ago, Marc said: Soon, the threads within that sub-forum will be moved back into their relevant sub-forums, and it will be closed. Some existing threads may be merged; some will remain closed, others may be re-opened at our discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Can't say I blame you for this move. Hope the transition does not cause to many problems. I allowed myself to get too involved and received some warning points. (do they ever go away?) so I think this may be a good move. Here's hoping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doogie44 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Good work and good luck moderators. I don't envy you all. "People who think they know everything really irritate those of us who do..." Note my emoji (is there an 'anti-cancellation'/insufficiently woke emoji??) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Overdue. I specifically exclude GAD from my search, and regret it whenever I step into the swamp. I do hope the new guidelines reduces the disruption to threads that is occurring too often now... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted October 2 Author Administrator Share Posted October 2 1 minute ago, Snoopy8 said: I do hope the new guidelines reduces the disruption to threads that is occurring too often now... That is the aim and intention, yes. We are in agreement that 'self moderation' and/or a light hand to moderation, which has always been my approach, has simply not been enough. Of course, we'll get criticism soon that "moderation is too heavy handed" etc ... you simply cannot please everyone. Our hope though is that rather than all suffering (through a entire thread being closed), that only those that are being disruptive and not acting in the "spirit of StereoNET" will be pulled up. Threads heading off-topic is a much harder one to get right. Discussion, by its very nature is fluid and constantly evolving. I think we (the members and the moderators) can only remind and encourage others to start a new topic when this happens and its no longer relevant to the specific topic. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assisi Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Marc said: Unfortunately, some members have become reluctant to contribute or share what they know and love because of fear of being told "they're wrong" or that their beliefs are not measurable. This is not OK Marc, A big thank to yourself and the moderators for this much appreciated step forward to a new era. I look forward to reading the guidelines. Thanks John Edited October 3 by Assisi Word 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frednork Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 Great news! and thanks Marc and mods for putting in the effort to make this change! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted October 3 Author Administrator Share Posted October 3 It's the first of a number of changes to be rolled out and implemented. As mentioned, I can't stress enough that we are as passionate about this place as so many of the members. But change does take time, and getting it 'right', even longer. I also need to mention that we have a great Volunteer team in @Kazz, @sir sanders zingmore, and @El Tel, who offer much insight - don't hesitate to challenge me or provide another perspective and ideas. Together, we bring it all together to make it work. I am very thankful to them, who also pick up the slack without complaint when I need to step away for work, travel, or personal reasons. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 A very good idea. The whole forum had become vitriolic, tribal and the home of the circular argument, where discussions never shed any light, only heat. Thankfully we can now look forward to more intelligent contributions where honestly held opinions are expressed in the spirit of the realisation that someone else in the thread is equally deserving of courtesy and respect ,as you are yourself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted October 3 Author Administrator Share Posted October 3 4 minutes ago, rantan said: The whole forum had become vitriolic, tribal and the home of the circular argument, where discussions never shed any light, only heat. To be fair, I don't necessarily believe that statement applies to "the whole forum" at all. We have been monitoring this for quite some time now, and in reality it's a handful of threads/topics and members. TGD was the source of most of those discussions, but given its very own real estate, it was more obvious as it was in the spotlight. The naming of the sub-forum itself was also part of the problem, in that it seemed to encourage a style of contribution. All this and more is now more obvious and being addressed. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 1 minute ago, Marc said: o be fair, I don't necessarily believe that statement applies to "the whole forum" at all. Ok, fair enough, but I still say I do not regret its passsing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POV Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 10 hours ago, Marc said: the new Website Guidelines will address these issues and offer recourse for Administration and Volunteer Moderators to act swiftly and with clarity when this happens. All makes sense to me, possibly a factor of my neurodivergence, but I am curious Marc if the new guidelines will have some kind of allowance for dealing with false, or misleading information being posted? Ours is an interesting hobby which is both technical and psychological and it’s difficult to entirely seperate the two. Where technically inaccurate information is posted isn’t it in all users (current and future) interest for this to be either corrected or removed? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted October 3 Author Administrator Share Posted October 3 It is not possible for us to be aware of every post made on StereoNET. We rely predominantly on reports to alert us to anything we need to know about. As for the fact-checking - that's not the role of the "moderator" in a forum sense. This is a peer-to-peer platform, so it would rely on others to highlight technically inaccurate information - there are no changes in this regard. And it can be done, in a civil manner, and in accordance with the guidelines. When it's not, well that's where the biggest changes we have made will come into play I guess. We as the admin/volunteer team have our strengths and weaknesses, but none of profess to being experts in all fields. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal beat Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) Hmmm. I wonder where vinyl rules vs cd suks gets posted now Vinyl or cd forum? Edited October 3 by metal beat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 3 Volunteer Share Posted October 3 48 minutes ago, metal beat said: Hmmm. I wonder where vinyl rules vs cd suks gets posted now Vinyl or cd forum? Try it and find out.... 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 You are "metal beat" and you have Jennie from Blackpink as your avatar?? You like K-pop? Where are we going to post "K-pop sucks" threads now? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeyb77_Redux Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 8 minutes ago, Keith_W said: You are "metal beat" and you have Jennie from Blackpink as your avatar?? You like K-pop? Where are we going to post "K-pop sucks" threads now? You….. you mean that’s not @metal beat’s real face?!? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
March Audio Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) 15 hours ago, Marc said: Unfortunately, some members have become reluctant to contribute or share what they know and love because of fear of being told "they're wrong" or that their beliefs are not measurable. Hi @Marc @sir sanders zingmore @El Tel Some questions if thats OK? So does that now mean no one is allowed to challenge or disagree with what others say? Where is the line? What if they are demonstrably wrong? What if their beliefs contradict known and proven science? What if their beliefs and statements mislead others? Does this mean anything controversial (that simply means something that causes disagreement) is now going to be censored? Are you pandering to a subset of members who are overly sensitive and simply wont accept, or get upset when their beliefs being challenged? Its known that moderation gets lobbied by certain individuals. FWIW I dont think the great debate section should exist. Debate should be a normal part of the forum. That means there will be disagreement. So long as its respectfully done it should not be a problem for anyone. No-one should have the right to silence others that disagree with their beliefs. Edited October 3 by March Audio 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Kazz Posted October 3 Volunteer Share Posted October 3 7 hours ago, March Audio said: Hi @Marc @sir sanders zingmore @El Tel Some questions if thats OK? So does that now mean no one is allowed to challenge or disagree with what others say? Where is the line? What if they are demonstrably wrong? What if their beliefs contradict known and proven science? What if their beliefs and statements mislead others? Does this mean anything controversial (that simply means something that causes disagreement) is now going to be censored? Are you pandering to a subset of members who are overly sensitive and simply wont accept, or get upset when their beliefs being challenged? Its known that moderation gets lobbied by certain individuals. FWIW I dont think the great debate section should exist. Debate should be a normal part of the forum. That means there will be disagreement. So long as its respectfully done it should not be a problem for anyone. No-one should have the right to silence others that disagree with their beliefs. Questions are always ok. Challenging or disagreeing with what someone has posted is part of forum life and was long as it's done in a healthy and respectful manner there shouldn't be a problem. If it's not then we may need to step in. No we are not pandering to any one person/group this is a move to hopefully get rid of the sometimes toxic atmosphere that existed in TGD. Censorship is not (never has been) a part of Steronet. We as the Admin/Moderator group take each thread/post/situation at face value and are not swayed by any "individuals" we act on a behaviour that goes against the forum guidelines not what any member may want. We don't take sides. 4 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martykt Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 21 hours ago, Marc said: We no longer feel The Great Debate serves its purpose. Can I say it @Marc... ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Marc Posted October 3 Author Administrator Share Posted October 3 I must have missed something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaynin Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 Sounds like this thread needs to be moved to the Great Debate sub-forum... 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martykt Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 1 hour ago, Marc said: I must have missed something? Possibly... (wanders off in smug vindication... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts