andyr Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 13 minutes ago, TerryO said: I have Mark here at present doing various convolutions in HQ Player for the 702’s, 703’s and the 704’s. To say the improvement in SQ is a serious quantum improvement is no exaggeration. Are those "Convolutions in HQ Player" a phase linearisation of the passive XOs in the 702s, 3s & 4s, Terry? (IE. a FIR filter overlay.) If so - I certainly agree. A mate did the same thing for me (with Roon Convolution) - and the result is magical!
TerryO Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, andyr said: Are those "Convolutions in HQ Player" a phase linearisation of the passive XOs in the 702s, 3s & 4s, Terry? (IE. a FIR filter overlay.) If so - I certainly agree. A mate did the same thing for me (with Roon Convolution) - and the result is magical! Basically yes, having heard various convolutions in both Roon and HQ Player there is a big difference in SQ between them and sorry to say but Roon comes a distant second. If you get a chance try HQ Player, you won’t be disappointed. Edited August 25, 2023 by TerryO
andyr Posted August 25, 2023 Author Posted August 25, 2023 Sorry, @El Tel, if I follow something interesting to me - which is off topic. 1 hour ago, TerryO said: Basically yes, Basically, yes ... to my Qu "is your Convolution a FIR filter overlay", Terry? Or something else? 1 hour ago, TerryO said: having heard various convolutions in both Roon and HQ Player there is a big difference in SQ between them and sorry to say but Roon comes a distant second. If you get a chance try HQ Player, you won’t be disappointed. Very interesting. Given that the Convolution is just software code ... do you mean: streaming a track using HQ Player delivers better SQ than streaming it using Roon? or is it to do with the sophistication of the Convolution that you can do in HQ Player - compared to Roon? 1
Grizaudio Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, andyr said: Sorry, @El Tel, if I follow something interesting to me - which is off topic. Basically, yes ... to my Qu "is your Convolution a FIR filter overlay", Terry? Or something else? Very interesting. Given that the Convolution is just software code ... do you mean: streaming a track using HQ Player delivers better SQ than streaming it using Roon? or is it to do with the sophistication of the Convolution that you can do in HQ Player - compared to Roon? In terms of execution of filters….. If the convolution filters are being executed without any resampling it will sound identical… the only difference will be content re/sampling and volume… Roon’s convolution engine has been tested and measured as perfect. Let’s not derail the thread… happy to share a link to the tests if I can find it via PM… I believe it was compared to audiolense in the discussion, and results were measured proving ZERO difference. Edited August 25, 2023 by Grizaudio 2
frednork Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Grizaudio said: In terms of execution of filters….. If the convolution filters are being executed without any resampling it will sound identical… the only difference will be content re/sampling and volume… Roon’s convolution engine has been tested and measured as perfect. Let’s not derail the thread… happy to share a link to the tests if I can find it via PM… I believe it was compared to audiolense in the discussion, and results were measured proving ZERO difference. In this case if you already run Roon. Hq player has a free demo mode where it works for 20 minutes blocks at a time. You don't need to worry about someone's measurements as they never seem to show anything remotely controversial and definitely nothing when it comes to digital. You can just compare for yourself and decide. Make sure no filters are set in hq player as that will make a measurable change. TBH the last thing I want is another piece of software that costs a lot and I am hardly using to it's full potential but I bought it anyway as it's compelling. I am interested in your standalone Camilla setup as a free alternative though as I suspect that has a better chance of being as good/better. 1
frednork Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 2 hours ago, andyr said: Sorry, @El Tel, if I follow something interesting to me - which is off topic. Basically, yes ... to my Qu "is your Convolution a FIR filter overlay", Terry? Or something else? Very interesting. Given that the Convolution is just software code ... do you mean: streaming a track using HQ Player delivers better SQ than streaming it using Roon? or is it to do with the sophistication of the Convolution that you can do in HQ Player - compared to Roon? Andy, sadly, it just different software doing the same thing. As mentioned above you can try for free. 1
Grizaudio Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, frednork said: Camilla setup as a free alternative though as I suspect that has a better chance of being as good/better. Yep free, and sounds just as wonderful as any convolution I’ve heard…after all it’s just solving maths… It’s a top notch solution… Albeit a little tricky for a novice computer user to get going. My sound rig is packed atm, due to a house inspections, and an eventual move to the Sunshine Coast…. So unfortunately I’ve had zero time on the BIG rig. Just a pair of Sony mx3 wireless atm…I’m actually looking to grab a set of the JBL M2 headphones Edited August 25, 2023 by Grizaudio
andyr Posted August 25, 2023 Author Posted August 25, 2023 48 minutes ago, frednork said: Andy, sadly, it just different software doing the same thing. Thanks, Mark ... but I'm afraid you haven't unconfused me. Different convolution software doing the same thing - I can understand. But it's the comment: 5 hours ago, TerryO said: having heard various convolutions in both Roon and HQ Player there is a big difference in SQ between them and sorry to say but Roon comes a distant second. ... that I'm trying to understand.
frednork Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 9 minutes ago, andyr said: Thanks, Mark ... but I'm afraid you haven't unconfused me. Different convolution software doing the same thing - I can understand. But it's the comment: ... that I'm trying to understand. It's easy @andyr, SQ of convolutionx through roon < SQ of convolutionx through HQplayer. Don't worry about the measurements proving something. Just download it and compare for free if you are curious. 1
andyr Posted August 25, 2023 Author Posted August 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Grizaudio said: just try it. You’ll see. This may not be possible, Griz - in that: the Roon Convolution was set up by a friend of mine; I have absoloootely NFI how to do what he did. using Roon, I am able to stream my vinyl 'on the fly' - using Roon's "Live Radio" facility. Does HQ Player offer this?
frednork Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 1 minute ago, andyr said: This may not be possible, Griz - in that: the Roon Convolution was set up by a friend of mine; I have absoloootely NFI how to do what he did. using Roon, I am able to stream my vinyl 'on the fly' - using Roon's "Live Radio" facility. Does HQ Player offer this? 1. Ask your friend to setup mono versions of the filters. 2.you can still use roon as normal but it plays to a HQplayer based endpoint. 1
Grizaudio Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, andyr said: This may not be possible, Griz - in that: the Roon Convolution was set up by a friend of mine; I have absoloootely NFI how to do what he did. using Roon, I am able to stream my vinyl 'on the fly' - using Roon's "Live Radio" facility. Does HQ Player offer this? HQ player does allow source ingest via a second interface. Many use an RME ADI 2 Dac or similar. I think…..This would be controlled outside of Roon, within the HQ environment. There is a HQ thread on the Roon forum, that covers a how to. If your not exploring silly DSD resampling etc, I don’t see the point of HQ player.. Edited August 25, 2023 by Grizaudio 1
frednork Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Grizaudio said: HQ player does allow source ingest via a second interface. Many use an RME ADI 2 Dac or similar. I think…..This would be controlled outside of Roon, within the HQ environment. There is a HQ thread on the Roon forum, that covers a how to. If your not exploring silly DSD resampling etc, I don’t see the point of HQ player.. You won't see it, you might hear it though! 1 1
TerryO Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, frednork said: You won't see it, you might hear it though! Actually I would go so far as to say there is no ‘might’ when it comes to hearing the difference between Roon and HQ Player, the difference in SQ is to say the least impressive. @Grizaudio I’m not anti Roon, it is just that HQ Player delivers a much better sq. I actually use Roon in conjunction with HQ Player when I use Antipodes servers. Tidal and Qobuz round out the digital suppliers. cheers, Terry Edited August 25, 2023 by TerryO 2
Satanica Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 9 hours ago, frednork said: You won't see it, you might hear it though! 8 hours ago, TerryO said: Actually I would go so far as to say there is no ‘might’ when it comes to hearing the difference between Roon and HQ Player, the difference in SQ is to say the least impressive. @Grizaudio I’m not anti Roon, it is just that HQ Player delivers a much better sq. I actually use Roon in conjunction with HQ Player when I use Antipodes servers. Tidal and Qobuz round out the digital suppliers. I presume there is usually different re-sampling, dithering & noise-shaping typically used between Roon and HQ Player i.e. not bit perfect compared to each others output. I guess one might hear a difference. 1
Grizaudio Posted August 26, 2023 Posted August 26, 2023 (edited) I was simply referring to the execution of convolution. There is no difference. When you start using/introducing different (re)sampling, upsampling to DSD, dither and complex filters etc…. Of course there’s a potential to make things sound different. I have seen threads on this forum with individuals stating they hear a difference with Roon’s DSP button engaged (no filters applied) or not engaged. This is nonsense as the software state is identical… Roon have confirmed this soo many times. This discussion is well off topic. Perhaps the discussion could be explored in a new thread. I would spin HQ up again, but my RIG is boxed atm, and in any event Roon+CamillaDSP is a winner for me. Edited August 26, 2023 by Grizaudio 1
Volunteer El Tel Posted August 26, 2023 Volunteer Posted August 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, parrasaw said: @El Tel is a chilled guy who won't get upset if the discussion continues here, but maybe a new thread would be good ? Any of the guys who are posting here who clearly know what they are talking about and have tried several different options would be a great OP. I'm totally cool for the chat to happen here - I'm not precious on my own threads as you alluded to. However... I can't help but feel this info might be useful for others down the track, so I can happily tag and split all relevant posts into a new thread for preservation and reference in future if people think useful? My only question, what should the title for a new thread be in order to make sense to all of you? 1
parrasaw Posted August 26, 2023 Posted August 26, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Grizaudio said: The best way to know is to try for yourself. Absolutely, and that will be happening soon (when I emerge from audio dark ages when a streamer and a DAC which I purchased from two other SN members, and some other new gear arrives at our place). In the meantime, the views and knowledge which are contained in the posts of you and the others who really know the business, is greatly appreciated . A big thumbs up also to @El Tel for his generous reaction and question about how to keep the thoughts coming - I will leave that to those who have contributions to make to decide on a good way forward. Edited August 26, 2023 by parrasaw
frednork Posted August 26, 2023 Posted August 26, 2023 2 hours ago, El Tel said: My only question, what should the title for a new thread be in order to make sense to all of you? I think the conversation here about HQplayer has very quickly hit the "It makes a difference/ But it cant " brick wall. For a new thread to have some broader value and longevity perhaps something like "Better sounding alternatives to Roon" might work. 1
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