Coolie21 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Hi everyone, I am new here, first post after welcome section. I hope I can get some honest opinions! I had a half hearted attempt to add digital to my analog system a year or two ago. I thought I would start with basic and see how it went. The amp end is a NAD C162 into an Audiolab 8000P. Speakers are old Castle Avon floor standers. I have good CD and TT (old LP12). For a first foray I used a gen 2 airport express optical output into a Project Box e DAC. The Project still gets great write ups and the sound isn't bad (for the cost!) but on many tracks its a bit underwhelming, in particular a bit thin and muddy. The express is limited to 16/44.1 I'm ready now to move up. The new EverSolo has caught my eye, but I am also thinking maybe pairing something like the Wiim Pro with a nice DAC for the same kind of money, and for more flexibility (and less dependent on future android support). The Wiim streamer would get me into Quboz or Tidal to add to the fun. I have no idea re which DAC I should go for, have looked but not listened, anything from the higher end Toppings to high end second hand units. My basic question is, has anyone started with something similar, upgraded and been blown away with the sound? Or is it all really just incremental. I know its hard to compare when other kit in the system is different but it seems hard to try before you buy. I asked this on another forum and was directed here, so please be nice to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Welcome and good luck with the research. You'll find another few topics in this subthread related to your question. From what I can gather in those discussions, some salient points (n.b. I have no horse in that race and don't mean to start a Great Audio Debate below) a. The DAC doesn't make as much a difference to SQ as is often believed b. At a certain price point DACs will offer a wider variety of options (with connections, bitrates, sound profiles) c. Some insist on r2r DACs, others on the newer ESS chips d. There is animated discussion about the benefits about external power supplies (linear and other custom switching) e. There is an Australian manufacturer active on this forum whose DACs are v. warmly received & reviewed by SNA members f. There are now several reviews and much feedback on the EverSolo vs Bluenode worth reading up on g. Virtually every piece of advice urges to trial out and compare the new gear in one's own set up. h. Some retailers may have an option to freight/test/return chosen DAC, probably at the $2,000+ end i. Personally I have found some improvement from my DAC over that internal to the macbook or my disc spinners. In the former case substantially, in the latter case perhaps noticeable and or more pleasing but difficult to render a definitive verdict in the absence of other ears or more comprehensive A/B testing. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DacMan101 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 I've been playing around with cheaper DACs in my headphone setup. I started with the cheaper Topping DACs and moved up in the ranks (the E30II is actually quite good for the money, I was surprised) But, if you can find a used Chord Qutest then that DAC is superb value for the money. Then add external power to get a noticeable sound from it. Paired with a good streamer (Auralic or the new Eversolo A6) and you'll be set If you have the funds, a PS Audio directstream DAC (used) is great too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, Coolie21 said: I'm ready now to move up. The new EverSolo has caught my eye, but I am also thinking maybe pairing something like the Wiim Pro with a nice DAC for the same kind of money, and for more flexibility (and less dependent on future android support). to the forum... You should think of getting simpler setups with fewer components and cables. People do not realise, let alone admit, that it takes a lot effort, time and money to stitch together an ideal combination. The Eversolo is better than a Wiim Pro + DAC. (And worrying about future Android support is unwarranted). 1 hour ago, Coolie21 said: My basic question is, has anyone started with something similar, upgraded and been blown away with the sound? Or is it all really just incremental. What is your budget? "Blown away" does depend on where you are starting from. I suspect the Eversolo will be a big jump on your existing setup, but a used Auralic Altair G1 or Lumin T2, as examples, may blow you away? Some people think the DAC is the most important component but I believe that getting the streamer, DAC and cable combination working well is the key. You can do this yourself but a much better way is to use one box that is optimised by the vendor. Edited August 10 by Snoopy8 Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolie21 Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said: What is your budget? 1-2K, I started with the EverSolo in mind, and centred on that. In many ways I do agree with your simplified set up, I appreciate set and forget if the result is good. I'm not sure whether concerns about the sustainability of an android device at the heart of the streaming section can be dismissed as unwarranted though, maybe we will return to that question in 5-10 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 1 minute ago, Coolie21 said: I'm not sure whether concerns about the sustainability of an android device at the heart of the streaming section can be dismissed as unwarranted though, maybe we will return to that question in 5-10 years... You are not buying a phone, where Android updates are necessary for security reasons. Who will want to hack into the Eversolo ??? The Eversolo is no different to any digital audio gear. Eventually, its software (firmware) will go out of date, no different to any other box. People raise questions only because it uses Android 11, which is OS for the development kit for the processor. Android allows for other Apps to be installed, a big plus. And so what if Android 11 gets out of date? Your other Apps will continue to run. The Eversolo will continue to run. Eventually, the Eversolo will not be supported, no different to a Wiim, BlueSound etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolie21 Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 29 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said: Eventually, the Eversolo will not be supported, no different to a Wiim, BlueSound etc Thanks @Snoopy8! Don't forget I am coming from a headspace where I am currently using a turntable made 46 years ago and still supported and upgradeable to current specs (at huge cost though)! Must be my natural caution creeping in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsfreo Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) Enjoy the research and weighing up - it is quite a journey. My 2 cents. I have also been sorely tempted by the Eversolo DMP-6A - well built, well reviewed and looks v pretty. It also seemed to be a very family friendly option for wife/kids and such to be able to use in our main stereo system. That family friendly aspect was almost the thing that tipped me over. I expect you'd be very happy with it. But $1400 is not inexpensive though given some other options out there. I use a WiiM Pro right now with a dedicated iPad (basic wifi for about $450) that sits on a stand so is always handy. Also I can choose to leave the screen on the iPad when I am playing music and that is a much bigger display, in effect, than the Eversolo. That setup gives me the option to change or upgrade DACs as that tech moves along. And Dac tech has been moving very fast (I use a SMSL DO200 right now). The WiiM software and my use experience with it has been first rate. I've got the iPad for album art and searching for music etc (I tend to use Tidal). WiiM devices are affordable which has allowed me to put a WiiM mini in another room so I can link the systems easily to play the same music. There is also a new WiiM Pro Plus that has just come out. Uses a good AKM DAC chip that early reviews suggest is well implemented. So you'd be giving up the screen and there can be debates about the ESS DAC implementation in the Eversolo vs the WiiM Pro Plus but you'd get the latter for probably a quarter of the price. A small one box solution that may keep you very happy for a while - and because it outputs bit perfect signal you could always add a 'better' DAC to it down the line. Edited August 10 by tsfreo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsfreo Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 WiiM Pro Plus Coming Soon | StereoNET International Plus you'll find various discussions online including CheapAudioMan and John Darko on Youtube, to name a few. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chigurh Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 9 hours ago, Steff said: Welcome and good luck with the research. You'll find another few topics in this subthread related to your question. From what I can gather in those discussions, some salient points (n.b. I have no horse in that race and don't mean to start a Great Audio Debate below) a. The DAC doesn't make as much a difference to SQ as is often believed b. At a certain price point DACs will offer a wider variety of options (with connections, bitrates, sound profiles) c. Some insist on r2r DACs, others on the newer ESS chips d. There is animated discussion about the benefits about external power supplies (linear and other custom switching) e. There is an Australian manufacturer active on this forum whose DACs are v. warmly received & reviewed by SNA members f. There are now several reviews and much feedback on the EverSolo vs Bluenode worth reading up on g. Virtually every piece of advice urges to trial out and compare the new gear in one's own set up. h. Some retailers may have an option to freight/test/return chosen DAC, probably at the $2,000+ end i. Personally I have found some improvement from my DAC over that internal to the macbook or my disc spinners. In the former case substantially, in the latter case perhaps noticeable and or more pleasing but difficult to render a definitive verdict in the absence of other ears or more comprehensive A/B testing. Great post! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy8 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 5 hours ago, tsfreo said: And Dac tech has been moving very fast DAC chips may change quickly, but contrary to popular belief, the chip is not as important as the power supply and the analog output stages of a DAC. In other words, a cheap DAC with the latest, greatest chip is pure marketing. It is expensive to engineer a good power supply and good analog circuitry. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsfreo Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 4 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said: DAC chips may change quickly, but contrary to popular belief, the chip is not as important as the power supply and the analog output stages of a DAC. In other words, a cheap DAC with the latest, greatest chip is pure marketing. It is expensive to engineer a good power supply and good analog circuitry. Oh I agree wholeheartedly with that. Not suggesting the DMP-6A is a bad implementation either, only that well implemented DACs are appearing regularly and a streamer (with a screen) and a DAC all in one might not be as flexible an option as something that is more of just a streamer etc. There are lots of choices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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