Thoughts on a Yamaha AS-2200 or similar

[Doctor Faustus]

Looking for an amp for a relative and was thinking of the Yamaha 2200 or similar .. and maybe KEF LS50 meta bookshelf speakers ...any recommendations or thoughts?

The amp needs to have built in phono.

Edited August 6 by Doctor Faustus

[rantan]

There is a Luxman 507U currently for sale here, which is better in every way than the Yamaha.

Edited August 6 by rantan

[Doctor Faustus]

1 hour ago, rantan said:

There is a Luxman 507U currently for sale here, which is better in every way than the Yamaha.

Thank you, but a 2007 vintage amp is not the go for this system. Loved Luxman, my first being the SQ507 in 1972.

Edited August 6 by Doctor Faustus

[Jakeyb77_Redux]

Built really well but sonically a let down in every way….. 

[POV]

Agree with the others, there are a lot of options in this price range that are superior to the Yamaha.  

 

 

[Doctor Faustus]

1 minute ago, POV said:

Agree with the others, there are a lot of options in this price range that are superior to the Yamaha.  

 

 

Can u please suggest some, with phono built in?

[Doctor Faustus]

20 minutes ago, Jakeyb77_Redux said:

Built really well but sonically a let down in every way….. 

Can you please recommend some others, around 5k, with phono built in?

Edited August 6 by Doctor Faustus

[POV]

1 minute ago, Doctor Faustus said:

Can u please suggest some, with phono built in?

 

Sure.  I am a big lover of future-fi so take that into account here, but at the 5k range I would recommend the Arcam SA-30.

 

Sounds fantastic, has a great onboard DAC, has onboard DIRAC, has a moving magnet and moving coil phono pre onboard, has the ability to go full analogue pathway if desired or can engage the digital circuitry if needed.

 

Kills the Yamaha when considering it sounds better, but also adds a ton of additional features and is very future proof.

 

Arcam | SA30 Integrated Amplifier | Melbourne Hi Fi

[snafu]

I've owned my AS-2200 for 2 years now, Unfortunately I sold my KEF LS50's just before buying the Yamaha. For the 2 years I've had it it's been running KEF R7 speakers. I've been very happy with the performance. I listen to mostly jazz. But it handles rock and classical just fine. I have no plans on ever replacing it. I also like the inclusion of the retro VU meters bass, treble, balance controls.

I don't own a turntable, so I can't comment on the phono stage.

 

[dman777]

I have the Yamaha r-n2000a and I love it. It is such a good amp and value. Really good sound. 

I have the Yamaha AS-3200 and I don't love it. It sounds boring compared to the 2000a. I ended up using the 2000 as a preamp to the 3200 and sounds really good. Although, with the 2 together it sounds a little bright but it might be because of my Sonus Faber Lumina II speakers. 

 

However, I think the r-n2000a alone with the Sonus Faber Lumina II speakers is superb and A++. 

[Gremrock]

On 13/8/2023 at 5:20 AM, dman777 said:

I have the Yamaha r-n2000a and I love it. It is such a good amp and value. Really good sound. 

I have the Yamaha AS-3200 and I don't love it. It sounds boring compared to the 2000a. I ended up using the 2000 as a preamp to the 3200 and sounds really good. Although, with the 2 together it sounds a little bright but it might be because of my Sonus Faber Lumina II speakers. 

 

However, I think the r-n2000a alone with the Sonus Faber Lumina II speakers is superb and A++. 

Interesting thoughts, the 3200 should trounce the RN2000, the rn2000 is ultimately just an incredibly well featured AS1200 after all. 
did you do comparisons on the sme or different speakers?

rn2000 must have some EQ or something going on to make it more exciting, have you played with the tone controls on the 3200?

[dman777]

7 minutes ago, Gremrock said:

Interesting thoughts, the 3200 should trounce the RN2000, the rn2000 is ultimately just an incredibly well featured AS1200 after all. 
did you do comparisons on the sme or different speakers?

rn2000 must have some EQ or something going on to make it more exciting, have you played with the tone controls on the 3200?

Yes, same Sonus Faber Lumina II speakers were used. 

 

The r-n2000a eq is different than the 3200 eq. The 2000a sound I get from EQ is more exciting, as you mentioned. The 3200 doesn't have a loudness and the treble and bass just do not seem to do much for it. I am not a sound purist and I like color in my sound. A sound purist might like the 3200 more (as a stand alone int amp). When combining the 2 together, the 3200 really adds a good soundstage, brings voices more to front, and has more bass textures.

But for the money, the 2000a alone is way good enough. I still listen to it by itself without the 3200 sometimes because it is not as bright. It depends on which song is playing to. After I upgrade my speakers in a few months, if the brightness of the 2 amps combined doesn't go away then I will keep the 2000a and sell the 3200. 

[dman777]

Here is a video of them together that I did 

 

[Gremrock]

Fair enough, I guess the RN200a is marketed to a different customer than the 3200, but I’m just surprised you find it so much more dynamic. It’s certainly hard to go past the features in the rn2000, and Yamaha always make good amps if not the absolute best. 
 

 

[POV]

19 minutes ago, dman777 said:

Yes, same Sonus Faber Lumina II speakers were used. 

 

The r-n2000a eq is different than the 3200 eq. The 2000a sound I get from EQ is more exciting, as you mentioned. The 3200 doesn't have a loudness and the treble and bass just do not seem to do much for it. I am not a sound purist and I like color in my sound. A sound purist might like the 3200 more (as a stand alone int amp). When combining the 2 together, the 3200 really adds a good soundstage, brings voices more to front, and has more bass textures.

But for the money, the 2000a alone is way good enough. I still listen to it by itself without the 3200 sometimes because it is not as bright. It depends on which song is playing to. After I upgrade my speakers in a few months, if the brightness of the 2 amps combined doesn't go away then I will keep the 2000a and sell the 3200. 

 

18 minutes ago, dman777 said:

Here is a video of them together that I did 

 

Hmm…I tend to find all Yamaha amplifiers sound a bit brittle but with respect I imagine almost any system is going to sound bright and harsh at times in that room, it looks like just wall to floor reflective surfaces.  Have you ever considered some room treatment?  

Edited August 14 by POV

[dman777]

45 minutes ago, POV said:

 

Hmm…I tend to find all Yamaha amplifiers sound a bit brittle but with respect I imagine almost any system is going to sound bright and harsh at times in that room, it looks like just wall to floor reflective surfaces.  Have you ever considered some room treatment?  

 

That's a good point. I am pretty new to this hobby and that is on my list of things to do. But the vocals are  a bit thin with the 'ssss' or 'ssssh' sound when they sing so I feel like the speakers, which have elevated highs, could be the culprit. 

[POV]

Well I wouldn’t describe the Sonus Fabers as especially bright, but irrespective you are throwing some nice gear into that room and it looks like a pretty (very) compromised space.  What are the new speakers?
 

I would highly recommend getting yourself a good quality calibrated USB microphone and boom stand and download REW and take some measurements.  There’s heaps of resources here and elsewhere on this.  As a bare minimum take an RT60 and work out the reverberation time in your room.  I bet you it’s far higher than the target range, meaning you are hearing a lot of your room reflections, and I tend to find that this is one of the most common causes of peoples systems sounding overly bright and harsh to them.

 

If people can do just one thing to vastly improve their listening experience it’s getting RT60 down into target range.

Edited August 14 by POV

[dman777]

Thanks for the heads up! yep.... I intend to mess with the room stuff down the road. I have a sliding glass window door to the side. Would that also cause more room reflections? 

 

I tried Sonus Faber Sonetto II and it did not sound bright, it is only the Lumina II speaker where they elevate the tweeters. But at that time I had the Sonetto, I didn't have the AS-3200. I wish I could try them again with this setup. What I did not like about them at the time was the vocals were a bit recessed. But now, the AS-3200 puts them forward nicely and may compliment the Sonetos in that fashion.   

 

My next purchases in the next couple of months:
1) Luxman 595a

2) B&W 805 d4 speakers

3) DynAudio speakers that are comparable to the B&W 805 d4 to compare. 

4) Maybe Focal speakers Kanta 2 or 3 but it is unlikely. 

Edited August 14 by dman777

[POV]

Yes, exposed glass is one of the worst culprits.
 

Cripes!  That’s some pretty serious, high priced gear you are talking about.  Is it going in the same room as your video?

[dman777]

Yep, same room. I will only be keeping one set of speakers once I decide which I like. But the amps.... the Luxman on the weekends and the Yamahas on the weekdays is how I have it planned. 

 

I make a new post asking about the glass sliding door so I do not derail this one any more. 

[Gremrock]

2 hours ago, dman777 said:

Yep, same room. I will only be keeping one set of speakers once I decide which I like. But the amps.... the Luxman on the weekends and the Yamahas on the weekdays is how I have it planned. 

 

I make a new post asking about the glass sliding door so I do not derail this one any more. 

You’re crazy, talk to a hifi shop about what you want first and see if you can do some kind of home demo arrangement, I wouldn’t want to buy 2-3sets of speakers and have to lose 30-50% on each to offload them. I would think if you pick an amp that’s far and away better than the Yamaha, you’d be wanting to just leave it plugged in all the time too?

 

the L590ax2 luxman is one of my favourite solid state amps, great valve like midrange, good detail and amazing bass, but based on what you’ve sad about the AS3200 I’d be wanting to try it first. My understanding is the 595is pretty much a retro inspired version. 
 

see if you can find a shop with most/alll of these options, ask them to setup all the gear your interested in, in the same size room you have, and spend half a day A/Bing at the store. You’ll at least start to work out of the amp suits the speakers/if you like the laid back but full presentation of the class A luxman (if not you may even still prefer the RN2000- which you could even take to the store to demo with the speakers youre looking at too).

 

if you find the right store/person in it, and they get to understand that after you spend a good length of time you WIlLL Drop $15-25k for example they’ll likely be accomodating to most requests, but expect to pay a bit more than you would for a “I want this, here’s cash” deal. Trade off of course is you don’t lose thousands selling what you don’t like.

 

personally I’d be looking at higher end Sonus Faber and the luxman.

 

lastly, go buy the biggest shaggiest rug you can fit, and the thicket curtains you can, and you’ll fix a good amount of that problem, then you can look at doing acoustic panels, (think canvas picture with foam in the timber frame, but look for threads on here to do it right ).

 

 

sorry Ric to take your thread in a while other direction