ISP and NBN speed. A sharing note 🙏

[Mr 57]

Thought I’d drop a line or two here ( be nice) about ISP and speeds, and what I’ve learnt. Maybe it can save our members some dollars. 
Keep in mind this is all relative to my situation, it’s not going to be an advantage to other situations. This is just a suggestion intended to assist not cause uproar or arguments.

 

In our home there is just my wife and I(and a puppy ) I use the internet for the following, streaming Spotify, mostly during the day. My wife also streams Spotify in her craft room at the same time as I do. We stream Netflix, BritBox, Disney etc etc at prime times at night. Also have a prescription to Kayo.

 

We are with Aussie Broadband, on an unlimited plan of 12Mbps/1Mbps.

The lowest speed(and the cheapest plan of $59 month.

We were on faster speeds initially, at more cost.

We are FTTN, standard copper telephone wire connection to the residence.

 

The bonus here is, we NEVER have buffering issues, no matter the time of day.

Which raises my question, why (if you fit into our two person situation) do we need to pay a LOT more for a plan we really may not need. 
Bonus with Aussie too, they test your line to see what the maximum speed you can achieve, so they won’t have you paying for a speed your connection just can’t deliver.
 

Try it, ….at best it’ll save you some dollars, at worst you can go back to what you had.

Hope it helps.

[aussievintage]

36 minutes ago, Mr 57 said:

We stream Netflix, BritBox, Disney etc etc at prime times at night. Also have a prescription to Kayo.

 

We are with Aussie Broadband, on an unlimited plan of 12Mbps/1Mbps.

The lowest speed(and the cheapest plan of $59 month.

We were on faster speeds initially, at more cost.

We are FTTN, standard copper telephone wire connection to the residence.

 

The bonus here is, we NEVER have buffering issues, no matter the time of day.

Which raises my question, why (if you fit into our two person situation) do we need to pay a LOT more for a plan we really may not need. 

 

If you want to watch streaming video at higher resolutions you will need faster speed.

 

Right now, I am on fttn same as you.  My 50Mbps plan is good for watching 4k video.     I spoke with Aussie Broadband.  There is an upgrade available for getting fibre to my house, but I have to sign up for 100Mbps - which I do not need (until 8k video becomes the norm )  

 

Plus i worry about the installation costs for the fibre.  

[rantan]

1 minute ago, aussievintage said:

Right now, I am on fttn same as you.  My 50Mbps plan is good for watching 4k video.     I spoke with Aussie Broadband.  There is an upgrade available for getting fibre to my house, but I have to sign up for 100Mbps - which I do not need (until 8k video becomes the norm )  

 

Plus i worry about the installation costs for the fibre.

 

I am in exactly the same situation and plan with Aussie Broadband and in a house of four people using all manner of devices every evening, the stability and quality of our connection is excellent.

We are currently not eligible for an upgrade from FTTN to full fibre, but I have been told that if and when this changes I will be notified and I can switch for no cost.

[Kaynin]

I've had FTTP for 11 years.  I used to be on a 100Mbps plan but downgraded to 50 because I didn't use it.  The 50Mbps plan is $70 p.m., unlimited data, through Swoop.

[LHC]

We have been with Aussie Boardband since NBN was introduced and on a HTTN plan also. We have experienced buffering/slowness and (unannounced and unexplained) outages from time to time. So I can't say we had flawless experience. We are eligible to upgrade to HTTH for free but will have to pay more for the faster speed plan. I believe the NBN upgrade is free for any ISP, not just Aussie. 

[aussievintage]

4 hours ago, rantan said:

We are currently not eligible for an upgrade from FTTN to full fibre, but I have been told that if and when this changes I will be notified and I can switch for no cost.

 

There's one bit of fineprint.  If the "conduit" that the copper runs in, needs to be upgraded or fixed, then they will charge you.  Apparently they haven't thought about the aerial copper, as it is NOT in a conduit  

[aussievintage]

3 hours ago, LHC said:

I believe the NBN upgrade is free for any ISP, not just Aussie. 

 

There's a list,  and my current ISP is NOT on it.   But I would switch to AB if I had to.

[aussievintage]

3 hours ago, Kaynin said:

I've had FTTP for 11 years.  I used to be on a 100Mbps plan but downgraded to 50 because I didn't use it.  The 50Mbps plan is $70 p.m., unlimited data, through Swoop

 Aussie Broadband told me I had to go to the 100 Mbps plan, but could downgrade later

[muriwai]

8 hours ago, aussievintage said:

 

If you want to watch streaming video at higher resolutions you will need faster speed.

 

Right now, I am on fttn same as you.  My 50Mbps plan is good for watching 4k video.     I spoke with Aussie Broadband.  There is an upgrade available for getting fibre to my house, but I have to sign up for 100Mbps - which I do not need (until 8k video becomes the norm )  

 

Plus i worry about the installation costs for the fibre.  

There is no installation cost to you

[aussievintage]

31 minutes ago, muriwai said:

There is no installation cost to you

 

Aussie Broadband specifically said there might be a cost if the "conduit" needed repair.  IN my case there is no conduit.

[davewantsmoore]

20 hours ago, aussievintage said:

If the "conduit" that the copper runs in, needs to be upgraded or fixed, then they will charge you.

For ANY infrastructure located on your property, that needs to be modified or replaced --- NBN may consider passing the cost on to your ISP.... who may consider passing the cost on to you.

 

Any ISPs can do the upgrade, but only certain ISPs have chosen to participate in the program.    One of the main reasons only large ISPs tend to participate, is that the cost of having a human talk to a customer on the phone a few times, can represent many months of profit... so you really do need to be running a tight ship, both in the front-end (customer system/support) and the back-end (requesting/talking to wholesale/network providers) ... and likely be prepared to "loss lead" a bit.

[aussievintage]

4 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

One of the main reasons only large ISPs tend to participate, is that the cost of having a human talk to a customer on the phone a few times, can represent many months of profit... so you really do need to be running a tight ship, both in the front-end (customer system/support) and the back-end (requesting/talking to wholesale/network providers) ... and likely be prepared to "loss lead" a bit.

 

and yet, the ISP I am with IS one of the big ones (I won't name it I suppose), and they are not on the initial list  of ISPs who can do it,  and they are prepared to have to deal with fixing the line when the wind takes it down.  Has happened twice in the last few years.

[davewantsmoore]

2 hours ago, aussievintage said:

ISPs who can do it

It is the ISPs choice to participate.

 

2 hours ago, aussievintage said:

and they are prepared to have to deal with fixing the line when the wind takes it down

NBN are the ones who fix it.

[aussievintage]

3 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

NBN are the ones who fix it.

 

 

but you just said...

 

7 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

the cost of having a human talk to a customer on the phone a few times, can represent many months of profit...

 

so they should be interested in preventing this cost

 

5 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

It is the ISPs choice to participate.

 

Well, according to them, they want to be on it, but have to wait 4 months or so, to get on the list.  They asked me to call back then.

 

However, we are are way off topic I think -

[davewantsmoore]

14 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

but you just said...

so they should be interested in preventing this cost

ISPs have to pay for people to talk to you on the phone

 

In the case of the FTTP upgrade program... ISPs can choose this.

In the case of your line blowing down.... your ISP doesn't have much choice about this.   NBN are the ones who own the line and fix the line... the ISP just has to pass the message on to them.    At the end of the day, your ISPs only solution to that problem is to not bother telling NBN, in the hope that you will leave and go to another ISP (this actually happens.... ISPs don't or won't log faults to NBN for their customers, cos they just want the customer to leave)

 

14 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Well, according to them, they want to be on it, but have to wait 4 months or so, to get on the list.  They asked me to call back then.

Code-word for they have to figure out how to get their systems to talk to the NBNs system to request the upgrade, etc.

[aussievintage]

12 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

At the end of the day, your ISPs only solution to that problem is to not bother telling NBN, in the hope that you will leave and go to another ISP (this actually happens.... ISPs don't or won't log faults to NBN for their customers, cos they just want the customer to leave)

There is another alternative.   Put pressure on the NBN to fix it properly, and/or have a maintenance program in place like power companies, to trim trees.

 

12 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

Code-word for they have to figure out how to get their systems to talk to the NBNs system to request the upgrade, etc.

 

now you are reaching

[davewantsmoore]

7 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Put pressure on the NBN to fix it properly, and/or have a maintenance program in place like power companies, to trim trees.

ISPs really (really) don't have any effective control at all over these things.... beyond logging a fault in the NBN system to say the infrastructure is damaged, or in danger of being.

 

7 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

now you are reaching

I was previously the manager of a customer (technical) service department for a large ISP.

 

There is no "wait time" for this program.  It is "the ISPs fault" they are not doing it right now .... but the customer service person isn't going to say it like that (if they understand what is happening, at all).

[LHC]

On 16/07/2023 at 3:12 PM, aussievintage said:

 

There's one bit of fineprint.  If the "conduit" that the copper runs in, needs to be upgraded or fixed, then they will charge you.  Apparently they haven't thought about the aerial copper, as it is NOT in a conduit  

 

I called and arranged my 'free' upgrade with AB today. The nice service lady told me if my house does not have a conduit I will need to arrange for an installation out of my own pocket. She did not warn me of the possibility that conduit may need upgrading or fixing. 

[DavidH71]

I have used many different ISP since NBN was introduced and all ways end up back with Aussie Broadband as they have the best service out there , not the cheapest but from experience definitely the best for speed , service and reliability.

[LHC]

This post may be slightly off-topic, however since we've been talking about ABB arranging for free NBN FTTP upgrade ...

 

My understanding is that the upgrade involves NBN co coming inside one's house and installing a NTD (Network Termination Device). The NTD can work effectively like a modem, therefore one can just connect NTD -> Router with ethernet cable and set up Wi Fi.

 

If one wants a direct connection to a PC, laptop, smart devices, one should connect NTD -> modem -> PC using ethernet cable. Some questions for those who knows:

1. The modem is needed because (in the case of ABB) one can't just connect NTD -> PC and access raw internet?
2. The modem is needed because it provides a physical firewall protection?
3. Can this configuration work if the modem is in 'bridge' mode?
4. Can the NTD run both types of connection simultaneously? 

[Jventer]

I am an AB customer - cannot fault them.

 

I do have a problem I have to sorth out: NBN installed the NTD in a build in wardrobe where there is no electrical outlets and on the other side of the house where the FTTN connection is/was  So now we run an extension cord into the cupboard and have to use a mesh system to whole of house wifi. 

 

I queried the installer - which was a contractor who told me bad luck he is not paid to run fibre from where he installed it to where I wanted it. His job is to install it as close as possible to where the fibre connects at the outside of the house.

 

The contractor did not even clean up. Left the drill dust, packaging the NTD came in etc. where he worked and left.

 

On my to do list, but now I have to lodge a complaint to AB who will then refer it to the NBN. I do not know what will happen then.

 

Alternatively I have to pay for moving the NTD where I want it.

[davewantsmoore]

11 hours ago, LHC said:

The modem is needed because (in the case of ABB) one can't just connect NTD -> PC and access raw internet?

 

The short answer is no - it is not needed.  You can connect the PC to the FTTP NTD with an ethernet cable.

The ISP will be making the connection either using DHCP or PPPoE.    If the former, the PC will just get an IP address from the ISP.... in the latter, you will need to "create a connection" in your network preferences, and put in a username and password, etc.

11 hours ago, LHC said:

1. The modem is needed because it provides a physical firewall protection?

If you connect the computer directly to the NTD, then yes - the computer will be connected "raw" to the internet, like people used to do in the "dialup" days.

You would want to ensure there is firewall and security software on the PC that is set to block by default.

 

In short... you probably don't want to do this (connect PC to NTD) ... but you totally can.

 

 

11 hours ago, LHC said:

1. Can this configuration work if the modem is in 'bridge' mode?

There is no modem required.   Any ethernet device can connect to the NTD.... if the ISP requires a PPPoE connection, then any ethernet device which has a PPPoE client can connect (ie. any computer, or any "router" as all routers have PPPoE clients)

 

11 hours ago, LHC said:

1. Can the NTD run both types of connection simultaneously? 

No.  The NTD doesn't know anything.... it's just an ethernet port.

The ISPs end with either assign an IP address to whatever is connected to the NTD ethernet port .... or it will ask for PPPoE credentials first, then assign an IP address.

 

Whatever you connect to the NTD can act as a single device... or it can be a "router" for other devices that are connected to it.... but the NTD doesn't know or care, which .

 

 

[davewantsmoore]

10 minutes ago, Jventer said:

I am an AB customer - cannot fault them.

 

I do have a problem I have to sorth out: NBN installed the NTD in a build in wardrobe where there is no electrical outlets and on the other side of the house where the FTTN connection is/was  So now we run an extension cord into the cupboard and have to use a mesh system to whole of house wifi. 

The details gets complex, but in general it is simple-ish.

 

He DID, need to install it where you wanted it.... even if that run is very long (the limit used to be 40m, I'm not sure where it is specified but it's big).

He needed to install it near dedicated power.   A extension cord is not technically non-compliant, if it is safe/reasonable.

He can install it in a cupboard if it has reasonable ventilation and clearance.

It has to go on an external wall.... or on an internal wall which is easily accessible (eg. no drilling through beams, etc. etc.)

 

BUT... it need to follow the rules, and it needs to involve no "extra" work for him, "extra" being things like drilling holes in beams, etc. etc.... where it is "easy" to get access through conduits, roof, or floors, etc... then they run it to where you want it, even if that is very long.    If he needed to put holes through beams, joists, etc. then that would be up to you to do, and then get the NBN installed back at a later time, to run the fibre through the holes, conduits, etc. that you had figured out, to where you wanted it.    It would be nice if the installers explained this to you, but usually it is framed in terms of "what you cannot have" (usually "you can have only what I say") ... as opposed to "this is what your options are" .... but at the end of the day, you are not a customer of NBN, you are a customer of ABB, and it is ABBs responsibility to explain it all to you.

 

10 minutes ago, Jventer said:

I queried the installer - which was a contractor who told me bad luck he is not paid to run fibre from where he installed it to where I wanted it. His job is to install it as close as possible to where the fibre connects at the outside of the house.

This is generally incorrect statement.   The run from the outside connection to where you want it terminated inside CAN be where you wanted, within the caveats and limits.  See above.

 

10 minutes ago, Jventer said:

The contractor did not even clean up. Left the drill dust, packaging the NTD came in etc. where he worked and left.

On my to do list, but now I have to lodge a complaint to AB who will then refer it to the NBN. I do not know what will happen then.

Alternatively I have to pay for moving the NTD where I want it.

If your current install is compliant ... then you will be lucky to have anything happen, as you will have agreed to the work.

It's ultimately your responsibility to figure out what options you have, and what you are agreeing to before it goes ahead.   It is your ISPs responsibility (as their "service") to explain this to you, eg, what you should expect, and what options you have, etc.

 

Definitely go ahead with the complaint though.  The contractor is supposed to clean up, and not supposed to misrepresent your options, etc.... but that is very common, and the contractors are not paid that great, and they just want to tick and flick things.

 

[LHC]

Update: surprisingly we have FTTP upgrade today. I thought NBN co scheduled to come out today to check our conduit; but the contractor went straight to work and  made the connections off the street and installed the boxes to our house. Had some delay as he had to enlist a mate to help out at some point, but got it all done by the end of the day. The only annoyance is that the contractors cracked the brick when drilling a hole. 

 

Once connected NTD -> modem -> PC got internet however at the previous speed. A call to ABB technical and was sorted in no time, very helpful. Really appreciate their 'call back service'. They seem willing to be on the call as long as I required to help out with some other questions. 

 

On 30/07/2023 at 12:46 PM, davewantsmoore said:

No.  The NTD doesn't know anything.... it's just an ethernet port.

The ISPs end with either assign an IP address to whatever is connected to the NTD ethernet port .... or it will ask for PPPoE credentials first, then assign an IP address.

 

Whatever you connect to the NTD can act as a single device... or it can be a "router" for other devices that are connected to it.... but the NTD doesn't know or care, which .

 

After speaking with the NBN contractor and ABB technical support, I got some more clarity on this question. The NTD has four ports but ABB/ISP is only assigned/allowed to use one of them (the number '1' port by default). Apparently the other three ports are for use if I sign up with other service provides, up to four in total. So for now I can only connect one device to the NTD as the first downstream node. 

[davewantsmoore]

17 hours ago, LHC said:

After speaking with the NBN contractor and ABB technical support, I got some more clarity on this question. 

Ah ok.  That's not at all the question I thought you were asking in your post above.

 

 

Yes - you can have up to 4 different ISPs with FTTP.     Each ISP is presented on one of the 4 ethernet ports in the NTD.... but the NTD itself is not a "switch" or a "router" - you just literally have 4 seperate connections coming into your house.