hellzigha Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Hi All, I got a 401 about 2 months ago. It was shipped with the idler clamp in place. I hadn't checked it on receiving the unit as it was sold as fully working and also didn't have the time for it. Now, with a new tonearm and cart ready to go, I switched on the unit this morning and it is not working. The strobe light comes on but the idler wheel is not spinning. The clamps were removed, prior to testing the unit. It did spin when the speed to turned to 45 rpm but stopped after a couple of turns. No grating sound during this time. This is so annoying and I wish I had checked this earlier. The unit was sourced from over east and was sent in a purpose made box. I could take it to the local technician but he is so busy at the moment and his turnover time could be months ( yes ... months!) Any ideas or am I missing something obvious, to overcome this problem? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, hellzigha said: I got a 401 about 2 months ago. It was shipped with the idler clamp in place. I hadn't checked it on receiving the unit as it was sold as fully working and also didn't have the time for it. Now, with a new tonearm and cart ready to go, I switched on the unit this morning and it is not working. The strobe light comes on but the idler wheel is not spinning. The clamps were removed, prior to testing the unit. It did spin when the speed to turned to 45 rpm but stopped after a couple of turns. No grating sound during this time. I don't have a 401, but I have not heard of an idler clamp. Just from the bit I highlighted above, I am wondering if you are talking about the turntable platter and whether or not it is spinning, as the idler wheel is a small rubber wheel hidden underneath the platter. First thing to check - is the motor spinning? If it is, and you remove the platter, you might be able to figure out if the speed change mechanism is working and allowing the idler wheel to engage properly between the motor and the platter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogsound Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Your Garrard 401 problem is the Idler wheel does not touch the inner platter well enough (not a problem by the spring ) You need to bring it to service and it will work well again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellzigha Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 Just done more testing. It appears that the idler wheel itself is not spinning. Looks like it will need a full overhaul? Now got to find a techie in Perth. Any members here, in Perth who are experienced in Garrards? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandra Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 The fact that the idler is not spinning still doesn't say much. Is the motor spinning? If so, is the idler engaged with the little pulley wheel sitting on the motor shaft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellzigha Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 27 minutes ago, Gandra said: The fact that the idler is not spinning still doesn't say much. Is the motor spinning? If so, is the idler engaged with the little pulley wheel sitting on the motor shaft? The motor is not spinning. Platter spins in both directions when not powered on but only moves clock wise when on. Looks like a qualified person needs to look at this... aaarrgh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansche plasma guy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 There an amazing Garrard master in Melbourne who can fix it (analogsound) but you might not want to ship it to Melbourne? At least you would know that everything was checked, serviced and made perfect like a brand new turntable (they are 50 plus years old)! A 50 year old car without a service will not sound great. Serviced and like new they are amazing (and worth spending the money on). LPG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellzigha Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, Lansche plasma guy said: There an amazing Garrard master in Melbourne who can fix it (analogsound) but you might not want to ship it to Melbourne? At least you would know that everything was checked, serviced and made perfect like a brand new turntable (they are 50 plus years old)! A 50 year old car without a service will not sound great. Serviced and like new they are amazing (and worth spending the money on). LPG As in Analogsound who commented above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansche plasma guy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) Yep. Just think about it. A unit that is 50 or more years old (even if its brand new and never used) will have all gunked up parts, rubbers which may have broken down or lost the particular properties designed to do a particular job, springs that may have sagged, a Idler break magnet which may not be very strong anymore, a idler wheel with rubber which is not compliant anymore, oil or grease in the bearing housing which may have gone all sticky, a motor which may have seized up or not working ideally and the list goes on. You might have bought this unit in what you think is good condition but just because it hasn't been used doesn't mean it needs work. You then might get this unit up and running in a plinth and think the sound is representative of what it can do and what a Garrard (or any vintage turntable may sound like) but it won't. They you may be dissatisfied with the sound because its not in ideal running condition. For the small cost of a service you will then have a unit which is running as good as when it left the factory and good for another twenty years or so. A unit overhauled and in this condition can sound truly magnificent. A really good idler in great condition with the right ancillaries reminds me a lot of Reel to Reel. For me more than any other turntable type. But if it's not in excellent condition with a great plinth etc. it will be noisy, not keep correct speed and keep drifting and there will be tons on noise and vibration issues with a bad idler wheel etc. the expected huge loss in performance you would expect. LPG Edited June 7 by Lansche plasma guy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood_Red_Bird Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 4 hours ago, Analogsound said: Your Garrard 401 problem is the Idler wheel does not touch the inner platter well enough (not a problem by the spring ) First thing I would check if that was the problem is the idler engage spring tension curious why you would rule the spring out as being the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogsound Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 15 minutes ago, Blood_Red_Bird said: First thing I would check if that was the problem is the idler engage spring tension curious why you would rule the spring out as being the problem? You can buy a new spring replacement or make a spring short to tension the idler wheel to the pulley to try This problem is from the mechanism of both models 301/and 401 I'm sure this problem is not a spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellzigha Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 The TT will be heading to Analogsound soon ( next week) . But I thought I should update everyone - the motors works if it is lifted slightly. Seems like it is sitting on something that's preventing it from spinning - Removing the TT from the plinth is a bit of work - getting the tools ready I made the decision to overhaul the unit rather than fix things as I go along. I will redo the veneer in the mean time. Pics will be up once I have it back LPG - many thanks for recommending Tran. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOMO Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 You have to remember these were originally steam driven. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellzigha Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 Update- received the unit form Analogsound ( SNA member who posted above) a few weeks ago and happy to report that it is working fantastic. Dead quiet and smooth. Unit is back in its plinth and now ready for tonearm installation. Got a 12 inch Jelco arm, that is ready to go. I'll post pics up once the tonearm is set up. A big shout out to Analogsound - Thanks a lot for the excellent work and Lansche Plasma Guy for recommending Analogsound. Cheers 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellzigha Posted September 14 Author Share Posted September 14 Finally I got the Garrard set up - Jelco 12 inch arm with an Ortofon black. The unit sounds amazing and I am really enjoying it. Only down side is I found out that the platter braking mechanism has been removed at some point. This was probably done by someone before I got hold of it ( based of pics of the unit before I bought it) still I can deal with that. now to enjoy the music. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansche plasma guy Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 Your 401 looks beautiful! how would you describe the sound compared to your technics sp10 setup and the linn? if it’s the felt pad (about half the thickness of a cigarette butt) that is missing that is used to slow down the turntable I wouldn’t worry. I’m not using mine and most people I know remove it. better to just keep the platter spinning anyway and lift and flip the lp to change sides / records. lpg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 On 8/6/2023 at 1:46 PM, hellzigha said: The TT will be heading to Analogsound soon ( next week) . But I thought I should update everyone - the motors works if it is lifted slightly. Seems like it is sitting on something that's preventing it from spinning - Removing the TT from the plinth is a bit of work - getting the tools ready I made the decision to overhaul the unit rather than fix things as I go along. I will redo the veneer in the mean time. Pics will be up once I have it back LPG - many thanks for recommending Tran. It’s great to hear that their is someone in Aust that can work on these beautiful pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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