Addicted to music Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 Received a letter from a law firm today, saying I owed Optus $1600 and I have 14 days to pay! The letter has a Private and Confidential on it address to me with my name on it and delivered to my address. Initial reaction is how on earth does a $30 prepaid account ended up as. $1600 unpaid bill? I spent hours on the chatline with someone to tell me that some how I requested a service and then cancelled it! So someone used my Name and address and then cancelled it??? How did that happen without a single email or SMS notification that they send when a detail has been changed on an account or a new service being requested? When you log in you get a SMS or email authentication so they know it’s you and no one else. The account also detail the history; how many accounts and when they were discontinued, according to this I’ve open the initial account and it was cancelled in 2018 in favour for prepaid. That’s it! That’s all it shows! They then refer me to call another 1800 number to report the fraud !!!! So another 45mins on the phone, I discovered that not just one mobile number was created but multiples!!! Not only that, a different gmail account was used, however on there side the initial details are blurred out so they can’t see it due to privacy reasons, but somehow they gave me one of the numbers that was created and then terminated! I went through all my email accounts going back to 2013 and SMS and there’s not one from Optus to tell me a new service requested or another account was created! So it looks like some one hijack my account or my credentials with an additional email address that I was not aware off! Then you have to asked the question, how did this account get to this stage without a reminder or an overdue notice and gets referred to a collection agency that request you pay up in 14 days? To me, whoever has hacked in has done a number on there billing system! With all the systems in place, how can someone sneak in, hijack the account with another email address and create havoc without the real account holder noticing. One can only speculate that this could also be an insider, or an external overseas contractor that Optus used that’s turned rogue! Once reported to there fraud department, you get a SMS to confirmed your complaint with a reference number and that someone will be in touch within 2 working days. I think it’s time to terminate the account and go with another carrier. 3 3
silencer13 Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 Wow, i hope it gets resolved. Sucks that it happens, it’s such a waste of time and so much stress. 1
08Boss302 Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 Horrible, I hope this gets sorted out for you and sorted out sensibly, not just the juggernauts chasing the $$$ with little to no empathy for the victim. Seems a all too frequent issue these days sadly. 1
t_mike Posted April 25, 2023 Posted April 25, 2023 Get in contact with the telecommunications ombudsman and have them tagged in everything that happens. 8
Addicted to music Posted April 25, 2023 Author Posted April 25, 2023 12 minutes ago, t_mike said: Get in contact with the telecommunications ombudsman and have them tagged in everything that happens. Registered a complaint this morning. All I can do now is wait. 3
betty boop Posted April 25, 2023 Posted April 25, 2023 8 hours ago, Addicted to music said: Received a letter from a law firm today, saying I owed Optus $1600 and I have 14 days to pay! really unfortunate... i am one of those that got hacked with optus and lay in wait what comes in time. keep us posted what comes of this ... its a scammers delight all these companies with hackable data... 1
RCADees Posted April 25, 2023 Posted April 25, 2023 Yes well done for lodging the complaint with the Telecommunication Industry Ombudsman. DO NOT need to engage with the provider (their standard costumer service) anymore, and I STRONGLY suggest to not do it as you will be wasting a lot of time (and your mind) with various areas which have no power to assist you anyway. Under the Telecommunications code, any amount disputed is put on hold until the matter is resolved. By all means continue with your other bill obligations etc. Even if the debt has been on sold to a debt collector, Optus is able to request the debt is put on hold. The TIO will ask a special team within Optus to contact you to resolve the matter, only deal with that team, have I already mentioned not to call Optus directly or you will loose your mind? When this special team calls you to resolve, keep it simple and to the point. I am guessing that someone used your details to request services on your name a while ago and this has generated the debt. Good luck, you should be to resolve this within a few weeks so don't stress. This is more common than what most people think, in fact, it happens all of the time and until there is proper Telco regulation is this country it will keep happening. Cheers. 6
Addicted to music Posted April 25, 2023 Author Posted April 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, RCADees said: Yes well done for lodging the complaint with the Telecommunication Industry Ombudsman. DO NOT need to engage with the provider (their standard costumer service) anymore, and I STRONGLY suggest to not do it as you will be wasting a lot of time (and your mind) with various areas which have no power to assist you anyway. Under the Telecommunications code, any amount disputed is put on hold until the matter is resolved. By all means continue with your other bill obligations etc. Even if the debt has been on sold to a debt collector, Optus is able to request the debt is put on hold. The TIO will ask a special team within Optus to contact you to resolve the matter, only deal with that team, have I already mentioned not to call Optus directly or you will loose your mind? When this special team calls you to resolve, keep it simple and to the point. I am guessing that someone used your details to request services on your name a while ago and this has generated the debt. Good luck, you should be to resolve this within a few weeks so don't stress. This is more common than what most people think, in fact, it happens all of the time and until there is proper Telco regulation is this country it will keep happening. Cheers. 40 minutes ago, betty boop said: really unfortunate... i am one of those that got hacked with optus and lay in wait what comes in time. keep us posted what comes of this ... its a scammers delight all these companies with hackable data... Hey mate, I’ve I joined a class action against Optus with Slater and Gordon after yesterday. It seems to me that there is a total lack of procedure and security. It’s like I said, if someone can gain access into your account and change details like your email address, then create multiple mobile accounts to the value of $1600 from a $30 prepaid just shows. Hence I believe if it can happen to me it could happen to anyone as @RCADees has pointed out! Makes you think twice on showing any credentials such as drivers license, Medicare card, Aussie Passport or even bank details that these service providers require. I’m going to change my password to some of the accounts starting with email address. 1 1
RCADees Posted April 25, 2023 Posted April 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Addicted to music said: It seems to me that there is a total lack of procedure and security. Unfortunately in Australia there is no real regulation of this sector. Before Telstra was split all of those years ago, as a Government body, complaints would be handled by the Commonwealth Ombudsman. When Telstra was privatised and all of the other carriers came into play, in order to create a mechanism to deal with complaints and at the same time avoid regulation, the result was the Telecommunication Industry Ombudsman (TIO). Which is no more than a dispute resolution body. The Telecommunications industry is governed by a code of conduct, not the law with the exception of certain elements. The other private sector Ombudsman(s) operate in a very similar way in Australia, including utilities and the banking sector too. This is why the results are similar The TIO has been somehow effective in dealing with most complaints (although most of the population does not know that it exists), but it deals with the effect not the cause of the problem such as your issue. The complaint that you just lodged is called a Level 1 complaint, which costs the carrier (Optus) about $35. If it is not resolved then you can escalate it and a Level 2 complaint would cost the carrier about $200. Pretty much all complaints lodged with the TIO would be resolved at Level 2. However, as you see, the TIO cost to the carriers is simply part of doing business. It is not designed to punish and fine and change the industry in a meaningful way. This is why real regulation and laws in this sector are more than needed, but we all know that the players would like to keep it as it is, because it works for them, not for the public. 1
proftournesol Posted April 25, 2023 Posted April 25, 2023 10 hours ago, Addicted to music said: To me, whoever has hacked in has done a number on there billing system! With all the systems in place, how can someone sneak in, hijack the account with another email address and create havoc without the real account holder noticing. One can only speculate that this could also be an insider, or an external overseas contractor that Optus used that’s turned rogue! It's easy because it happened to us. I won't publicise it here, but I'm happy to tell you how it happened to us in a personal message; it was probably similar for you. 1
Addicted to music Posted April 25, 2023 Author Posted April 25, 2023 1 minute ago, proftournesol said: It's easy because it happened to us. I won't publicise it here, but I'm happy to tell you how it happened to us in a personal message; it was probably similar for you. Thanks Prof, great to hear that I’m not alone and thanks for sharing. If it’s similar no need to write an essay, Just basically let us know how it was resolved. @RCADees Many thanks for that info. I’m hoping that it be resolved at level 1.
PleasantSounds Posted April 25, 2023 Posted April 25, 2023 I had a similar situation, but with a different telco. Someone started opening prepaid accounts in my name. Long story short, it turned out to be a rougue employee. The eye opener was how unprepared our system is (or at least was few years ago) to deal with this sort of crime. 1
Addicted to music Posted April 25, 2023 Author Posted April 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, PleasantSounds said: I had a similar situation, but with a different telco. Someone started opening prepaid accounts in my name. Long story short, it turned out to be a rougue employee. The eye opener was how unprepared our system is (or at least was few years ago) to deal with this sort of crime. 16 hours ago, Addicted to music said: To me, whoever has hacked in has done a number on there billing system! With all the systems in place, how can someone sneak in, hijack the account with another email address and create havoc without the real account holder noticing. One can only speculate that this could also be an insider, or an external overseas contractor that Optus used that’s turned rogue! Thanks for sharing, your reply just goes to confirmed my suspicion, someone in the organisation with no good intentions. How does an account holder not notice that an additional email address was added without a SMS or/and email notification. with the Opus App, you will be asked for a generated numeric code to your phone number or email. And if you require a service you also get a notified the same way! You have major concerns when Telcos decided to reduced cost by using overseas call centres, the standards go out the door! And then you're faced to clean up the mess, not only that it stresses out the clients being effected and leaves a bad taste.
PleasantSounds Posted April 25, 2023 Posted April 25, 2023 I only noticed when I entered my online account - the additional 5 numbers were there. No notification, no confirmation, nothing of that sort. Obviously having internal access to the system they may be able to suppress the standard protocols. I have immediately cancelled these services but a couple of days later another 5 numbers were attached to my account. And it continued like that for a while, until the pest has been caught. Before it was clarified what actually happened and not knowing the nature of this attack, I had to block all credit cards, change passwords, put a hold on my credit reference checks etc. 2
proftournesol Posted April 25, 2023 Posted April 25, 2023 (edited) The other problem is that call centres were hit pretty hard in the pandemic; high absentee rates and high staff turnover resulted in lots of inexperienced staff, easily fooled by fraudsters and who don't always follow the required security steps. Fraudsters know that and call at the busiest times when call centre staff are under the pump Edited April 25, 2023 by proftournesol
GregWormald Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 (edited) I don't know what the legal requirements are on the telcos to change things legally, but it might pay to ask a lawyer. (Lots have a free first consult.) When I wanted to change my will the only way my sister could agree regarding her role was to sign an original document and mail it back! Australia to Canada and return(!) at the height of the zombie pandemic and almost no airplanes in the sky. Edited April 26, 2023 by GregWormald grammar
RCADees Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 7 hours ago, GregWormald said: what the legal requirements are on the telcos to change things legally There is no legal requirement for Telcos to change. There is only an unenforceable code of conduct. 1
Al.M Posted April 27, 2023 Posted April 27, 2023 Join the legal class action for compensation for Optus negligence not protecting your data adequately. There was a media appearance by the legal firm about this several days ago.
Addicted to music Posted April 28, 2023 Author Posted April 28, 2023 20 hours ago, Al.M said: Join the legal class action for compensation for Optus negligence not protecting your data adequately. There was a media appearance by the legal firm about this several days ago. done! 1
Addicted to music Posted April 28, 2023 Author Posted April 28, 2023 They don’t muck around, the private collection company have already been in contact. Optus has also made an effort, but obviously someone who does not give a rats, told me that he will sending me an email with a Fraudulent package that involves the usual, confirming ID via drivers license and Medicare card, that at this stage I’m very reluctant in complying for obvious reasons. It also includes writing a state declaration signed by the police. I’m to satisfy ALL the above requirements within 5 working days, if it isn’t done then the case is closed . After giving my email address I’m yet to receive this email. I’ll hassle them to n Monday as I’m in Bright ATM. Yesterday TIO send me a confirmation with another Optus Case Number.
Addicted to music Posted May 2, 2023 Author Posted May 2, 2023 Resolved. Got this today: Thank you for your patience while we investigated your identity theft claim. We confirm that the above account was the result of a fraudulent application. We confirm that the account and all services attached have been cancelled and our records have been updated to reflect our findings through the investigation. We also confirm you will not be responsible for all debt incurred on the above account. The account is now closed. We’ve requested the credit bureaux Equifax & illion to change their records on your personal credit report so that any activity such as enquiries and/or defaults associated with the above account number is removed, and does not impact your personal credit file. Optus treats these matters very seriously and we remain committed to combat fraudulent account activity. We thank you for your cooperation in providing the documentation required for our investigation and apologise if this caused you any inconvenience. If you require further support on this matter or you have any questions, please contact your case manager. Yours sincerely, Ripeka Fraud Risk Analyst Just for reference, if anyone finds themselves in my position with Optus, the quickest way to get this resolved: Get Statuary Declaration ( see Optus Requirement for Stat Dec ) Get a Police Report or log onto http://www.cyber.gov.au/acsc/report Provide a primary Photo ID Provide all the information for the demand Log onto this: identity.theft@optus.com.au And provide all the above info. I did this last night and it was literally resolved by 2:00pm today. This is after I gave up being assigned to a case manager at Optus that failed to return my calls and emails after he gave me 5 business day to collect the above or the case is closed. When I got nowhere with this individual I did some more investigation and ended up with the instructions to just email all correspondence to this address. I’d like to add in addition to this the police refused to file a police report because there is no crime being committed. The Constable was either inexperience, and instructed me to find out what services had accumulated this amount that Optus didn’t give details apart from several phone accounts being opened. So to get over this hurdle you had to log onto the Optus website and I realised you had to log into and complete a cybercrime report requiring police to investigate at http://www.cyber.gov.au/acsc/report. Then you email the report to Optus. 5 1
GregWormald Posted May 3, 2023 Posted May 3, 2023 (edited) Interesting—and sh*tty. You have to force everybody to take notice of and investigate a crime; but they all do nothing before claiming it's your responsibility and saying "pay us". Edited May 3, 2023 by GregWormald But a good result because of your hard work. Congratulations.
BugPowderDust Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 12 hours ago, GregWormald said: Interesting—and sh*tty. You have to force everybody to take notice of and investigate a crime; but they all do nothing before claiming it's your responsibility and saying "pay us". Even worse, if you find who did the crime, the cops are far beyond useless in picking anything up and prosecuting it. I work in cyber and have prepared a brief with full evidence for in excess of 500 charges of financial theft by someone who is still walking the streets, uncharged. Why? The Police have recovered all of their PCs and laptops, but there is a 31 month long wait for Police forensics teams to open the devices and look at them. Unless you're holding child porn or terrorist related materials, you join the end of a long queue at the under resourced computer forensics teams at our local Constabulary. 3
proftournesol Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 3 hours ago, BugPowderDust said: Even worse, if you find who did the crime, the cops are far beyond useless in picking anything up and prosecuting it. I work in cyber and have prepared a brief with full evidence for in excess of 500 charges of financial theft by someone who is still walking the streets, uncharged. Why? The Police have recovered all of their PCs and laptops, but there is a 31 month long wait for Police forensics teams to open the devices and look at them. Unless you're holding child porn or terrorist related materials, you join the end of a long queue at the under resourced computer forensics teams at our local Constabulary. We provided the Police with the mobile phone number of the person who hacked our accounts (and siphoned off $20k+)... we have yet to hear a thing from them. Crickets.
RCADees Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 6 hours ago, BugPowderDust said: cops are far beyond useless in picking anything up and prosecuting it. This is very true. These days the cops cannot even catch a cold... Australia is getting too big and so are it's problems too.
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