Tassie Devil Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 I'm not only referring to digital <-> audio processors although they can produce quite significantly different sound signatures, but to any component in the audio chain. It can be very frustrating to hear two different items producing different sound yet each appear perfectly acceptable. Which one is better? I suggest there is no answer to this and one must accept these differences and not be too concerned about them unless one is distasteful. And that distaste can be very personal and not be appreciated by someone else. An outside observer can scratch their head in disbelief at this while the audiophile, seeking Nirvana, drives himself nuts and empties his bank balance apparently chasing moonbeams. The common trap is that one becomes bored with the current sound so, enticed by yummy reviews/opinions, he/she "upgrades" and is delighted to hear a different sound which is proclaimed to be better. In fact it might only be slightly different but sounding "better" to the audiophile is enough to yield satisfaction. The upgrade has been successful! The sensible course is to be satisdfied with what you have if the components are well matched and the quality of the reproduced music is good. Easily said, but not so easy to follow as the audiophile itch to continue to play around with electronics for as long as the bank balance allows can be overpowering. And it IS fun!! 2
muon* Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 I don't see any traps. But that's just my view/opinion. Also if one frequenting an audio forum like ours here, they are an audiophile by the correct definition.
Satanica Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 51 minutes ago, muon* said: I don't see any traps. The best trap is the one you don't see. 2 3
MattyW Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 Mmmm, I've just gone with the most transparent system possible but with a few "musical" source components. Does the trick for me.
Ihearmusic Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 6 hours ago, Tassie Devil said: I'm not only referring to digital <-> audio processors although they can produce quite significantly different sound signatures, but to any component in the audio chain. It can be very frustrating to hear two different items producing different sound yet each appear perfectly acceptable. Which one is better? I suggest there is no answer to this and one must accept these differences and not be too concerned about them unless one is distasteful. And that distaste can be very personal and not be appreciated by someone else. An outside observer can scratch their head in disbelief at this while the audiophile, seeking Nirvana, drives himself nuts and empties his bank balance apparently chasing moonbeams. The common trap is that one becomes bored with the current sound so, enticed by yummy reviews/opinions, he/she "upgrades" and is delighted to hear a different sound which is proclaimed to be better. In fact it might only be slightly different but sounding "better" to the audiophile is enough to yield satisfaction. The upgrade has been successful! The sensible course is to be satisdfied with what you have if the components are well matched and the quality of the reproduced music is good. Easily said, but not so easy to follow as the audiophile itch to continue to play around with electronics for as long as the bank balance allows can be overpowering. And it IS fun!! I totally agree with you on the vibe of your post. The only way I can see a trap however is the when people read product reviews on gear or accessories and get sucked in. Hearing music is such a personal endeavor that product reviews are a general guide only and never reflect what one might hear if said product is in ones own system. There are DIYers on this forum who try to explain on how good their new project is sounding. A waste of time. Same with all those guys blabbering on about how good their gear sounds only to buy something else to repeat the cycle. Enough ranting. Enjoy the music
MattyW Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 I think the thing convinced me on my recent DAC purchase was a listen to the music used in the review. Absolutely loved it and reading between the lines the reviewer has similar sonic preferences and music taste to my own. 1
audiofeline Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 7 hours ago, Tassie Devil said: ...The common trap is that one becomes bored with the current sound so, enticed by yummy reviews/opinions, he/she "upgrades" and is delighted to hear a different sound which is proclaimed to be better. In fact it might only be slightly different but sounding "better" to the audiophile is enough to yield satisfaction. The upgrade has been successful!... I can't relate to this. I've never been "bored" with the sound of my system. I recognise that it has limitations (based on budget constraints) and that it can always be improved (well, until I'm able to throw $ hundreds of thousands at it). I've upgraded when I can afford to take the system to the next level or can do affordable tweaks along the way that improve the sound. I enjoy it without boredom until a component fails beyond repair, or an upgrade opportunity presents itself. But I look at each upgrade as a long-term investment, so I live for many years (decades?) without major upgrades. The only time I get bored listening to my system is when the music isn't engaging, but that's easily fixed by changing the disk I'm playing! 4 3
ThirdDrawerDown Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 I link this to "fatigue". I've heard many different definitions of listener fatigue, but IMO it's simply the difference between "I think I'll put on some more music" and "I think I'll go off and do something else". [ITIGOADST]. If ITIGOADST happens quickly then you've got a problem. If ITIGOADST isn't happening but you wonder what would happen if you changed something, then you are a tweaker and no advice will help you. Be rest assured however that you don't walk the tweaker's path alone, for we are legion. 1
stereo coffee Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) The answer is to not just acquire audio equipment, and hope for the best, but to know what you are purchasing. A great resource is this one https://www.hifiengine.com/manual-library.shtml Likewise to know where better audio is achieved, look at how equipment can be designed well, vs not so well, it should heighten your appreciation of what is actually involved, to get better audio reproduction. http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/dipa/dipa.htm https://www.passlabs.com/technical_article/cascode-amp-design/ https://sound-au.com/project15.htm Edited April 18, 2023 by stereo coffee 3
Tassie Devil Posted April 19, 2023 Author Posted April 19, 2023 5 hours ago, stereo coffee said: The answer is to not just acquire audio equipment, and hope for the best, but to know what you are purchasing. A great resource is this one https://www.hifiengine.com/manual-library.shtml Likewise to know where better audio is achieved, look at how equipment can be designed well, vs not so well, it should heighten your appreciation of what is actually involved, to get better audio reproduction. http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/dipa/dipa.htm https://www.passlabs.com/technical_article/cascode-amp-design/ https://sound-au.com/project15.htm Wise advice Stereo Coffee. And the other confounding problem in all this is that no two pairs of ears/brains are the same so it is illogical to expect everyone to react the same to sound. That said I have found it a reasonable approach to go for items that receive greneral praise and are well reviewed. But the problem with any opinion, reviwer or audiophile, is that what they hear and like is music to their brain from a series of components usually different to what I have here so their opinions MUST be treated with caution. 1
hlov Posted April 19, 2023 Posted April 19, 2023 13 hours ago, audiofeline said: I can't relate to this. I've never been "bored" with the sound of my system. I recognise that it has limitations (based on budget constraints) and that it can always be improved (well, until I'm able to throw $ hundreds of thousands at it). I've upgraded when I can afford to take the system to the next level or can do affordable tweaks along the way that improve the sound. I enjoy it without boredom until a component fails beyond repair, or an upgrade opportunity presents itself. But I look at each upgrade as a long-term investment, so I live for many years (decades?) without major upgrades. The only time I get bored listening to my system is when the music isn't engaging, but that's easily fixed by changing the disk I'm playing! I feel the same, unfortunately IMHO most of the time you will get what you paid for, I.e. vinyl can sound great but not much on one of those Crosleys turntable, some components not only sound different but heaps better, for some people this is not important but for some of us it is I have gone very very far with my upgrades and every time has made me very happy as it has allowed me to improve the sound quality, for me the real trap is component looks, there are things I just can’t resist I love my Yamaha amp for how it sounds and couldn’t change those gorgeous VU meters for something that might sound better. 2
MattyW Posted May 27, 2023 Posted May 27, 2023 (edited) On 19/04/2023 at 4:38 AM, stereo coffee said: The answer is to not just acquire audio equipment, and hope for the best, but to know what you are purchasing. A great resource is this one https://www.hifiengine.com/manual-library.shtml Likewise to know where better audio is achieved, look at how equipment can be designed well, vs not so well, it should heighten your appreciation of what is actually involved, to get better audio reproduction. http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/dipa/dipa.htm https://www.passlabs.com/technical_article/cascode-amp-design/ https://sound-au.com/project15.htm I believe this is true to a point…. Design is only part of the equation. I’ve personally found that the build itself and choice of parts (resistors, caps etc) can often play a big part in the sound achieved by a component, and generally speaking the simpler the circuit the bigger the difference part choice makes. I ascribe to much of what Nelson Pass and a number of other engineers talk about in interviews….. It’s simply that engineers that believe in such things seem to me to be in the minority vs those who say only the circuit and build quality matters. Course then there’s others say if the parts affect the sound either the parts are suspect or the design itself is no good. I guess either camp could be correct and the degree to which various engineers go in those direction vary greatly also. darTZeel amps for example use nothing exotic in them at all but sound absolutely gorgeous. Herve seems to have some similar views to Nelson Pass in some areas though certainly very much in a different direction. Once more though that’sa relatively simple circuit with no global feedback…..Not that I’ve heard a real one mind you. I guess what I’m trying to say is that what you’ve said is absolutely correct though I don’t think it covers everything….. And quite likely my reply doesn’t cover everything either…. Meh, I’ve consumed too much cognac. Edited May 29, 2023 by MattyW 2
MattyW Posted May 27, 2023 Posted May 27, 2023 On 19/4/2023 at 10:34 AM, Tassie Devil said: Wise advice Stereo Coffee. And the other confounding problem in all this is that no two pairs of ears/brains are the same so it is illogical to expect everyone to react the same to sound. That said I have found it a reasonable approach to go for items that receive greneral praise and are well reviewed. But the problem with any opinion, reviwer or audiophile, is that what they hear and like is music to their brain from a series of components usually different to what I have here so their opinions MUST be treated with caution. A certain amount of reading between the lines is necessary and I find when they discuss how certain tracks sound this is also valuable as you can then go and listen to that track on your system and see if what they’re describing is something that would actually benefit your system. It’s not foolproof, though it does help. That said the writing of some reviewers is just so damn flowery that I don’t understand what the heck they’re saying apart from the vibe that they like it. Really it’s rare to read negative reviews as otherwise brands don’t sent more gear to be reviewed. You absolutely need to read between the lines. That said those reviews that are most helpful go far beyond my own ability to describe such things myself so reviewing for me will only ever be my own experiences on forums. I’ve not the pretty turn of word nor ability to describe things beyond transparent, finely detailed, revealingly, insightful etc which really by my own definition is meaningless? I mean compared to what? To what benchmark am I comparing things apart from the gear that has come before….. So yes, I guess I’m passionate about it but lack the necessary ability to convey exactly what I’m hearing so the best I can do is say whether my experience matches the professional review. Then again many will say that what I’m hearing is coloured by the review itself…. Positive expectation bias. Nonetheless, I enjoy sharing my experience so I’m not ready to give up yet.
MattyW Posted May 27, 2023 Posted May 27, 2023 On 19/4/2023 at 12:32 PM, hlov said: I have gone very very far with my upgrades and every time has made me very happy as it has allowed me to improve the sound quality, for me the real trap is component looks, there are things I just can’t resist I love my Yamaha amp for how it sounds and couldn’t change those gorgeous VU meters for something that might sound better. Glowing tubes have that effect for me along with their sonics…. If I still ran tubes perhaps I’d not be SNA with my phone right now…. However what I have now sounds far better than anything else I’ve owned or heard to date. To be fair though, I haven’t heard many others systems. Too much time tweaking what I have, then a small child came along and you know what? She’s even more rewarding and amazing for me than any system can compete with. Damn, but don’t I have alcohol induced verbal diarrhoea tonight?
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