Thoughts on direction from here?

[tripitaka]

5 minutes ago, Sounding said:

@surfnetb did someone mention my cellar?

I do good coffee too. Sing out…

 

@tripitaka I do have a calibrated mic and the REW software.

I began using it back when I had the B&W 702 speakers, and I made improvements with EQ settings in the Auralic processor.

With these speakers, I did heaps of measurements and tweaks to EQ, dialled settings back based on what my ears were telling me, eventually deciding it sounds best with all EQ off.

Was an interesting exercise.

Ah yes sorry, you had mentioned the EQ bit earlier!

Anyway, if you cellar is decent then you really should be posting your beverages over in the Currently drinking thread, so we can enjoy vicariously.

[Sounding]

@tripitaka I hadn’t discovered that thread, I will dig it up when next opening something deserving. 
This one was good, a ‘98.

Two of them left.

 

[GregWormald]

Isoacoustics under my speakers made a huge improvement so I highly recommend them. Selby has a 30 day "return if you don't like them" policy and I knew mine were staying within minutes. (Isoacoustics over email were very helpful and not pushy at all.)

 

IMO cables can make a difference but for me the improvement has always been minimal although I've never gone super.

 

Have fun, and listen to lots of music.

[Sounding]

Thanks @GregWormald, I bought Gaia III for the B&W 702 Signatures when I had them and was equally impressed. As I am on a suspended timber floor it does carry vibration so I will be doing it.

There are also a few tracks I have that, if played enthusiastically with the sub engaged, it makes the sub vibrate on the floor despite the copious blu-tack. I found sitting on it works well so I am thinking about a thick metal plate or some such, insulated from the top of the sub by something, to keep it weighed down.

I have also found the coffee table resonates on the floor in the action scenes of Lord of the Rings which we recently sat through.

Todays extensive listening was without the sub. I also had the Auralic filter on Precise for most of the day for comparison between the AVR and PrimaLuna DACs, taken it back to the preferred Smooth setting this evening before fitting in some Fleetwood Mac and (cough) BeeGees…

These Tidals are so good, such a good move. Still pinching myself at how lucky I am to have them.

[Sounding]

Been an interesting and confusing few weeks.

From thinking I should sell the PrimaLuna gear and get a Mola Mola Makua with DAC, to nearly buying a dCS Bartok, to looking at all in one units like some of the Aurender, to listing my monoblocks and pre and Sirius for sale in various places so I can purchase a Vitus RI-101 MkII, to withdrawing all sale items with confusion and cold feet, because I really have no idea how good the kit I currently have is.

 It pleases me to listen to, so perhaps no action for now, but ai am interested in what direction/s could be considered in future.
I will likely revisit the idea of the Vitus.

I am still unsure about the PrimaLuna gear. 
But as I sit here typing, my ears are filled with this - and it is very very good.

[Keith_W]

I have one of those Vitus amps driving the bass units in my 4 way active speaker. It's a really good amp. 

 

Honestly, all the stuff that you currently own is pretty good. Without any of us listening to your setup to give you feedback, or you listening to other people's setups to get an idea of what is possible, it is impossible to know what needs improving in your system. Are there any obvious problems? e.g. if you play loud, does your amp clip? Have you noticed any anomalies, e.g. muddy sound, loose bass, etc? Since you own a mic, why not take some sweeps and post them here? That will very quickly tell you what is off and what needs to be done. 

[Hydrology]

I'm assuming you bought the speakers from the importer (Grooveworks)?

If so, take a trip to the mainland before you spend any money and go and see what they run the speakers with ( I would also assume Tidal electronics is their preferred option). You have mentioned the level the speakers play at, it would just make sense to get the best from them and I know the Tidal electronics is a glorious match for their speakers. Plenty of valid opinions in this thread but unfortunately some, all, or none may apply. At the level of investment you have made, I wouldnt be playing Russian Roulette on an online forum as your method of filtering the next step, but of course continue to share your journey!!

[Sounding]

4 hours ago, Keith_W said:

Are there any obvious problems? e.g. if you play loud, does your amp clip?

I don’t think there are obvious problems. Just aiming for end-game - who knows, I might already be there. As it’s the best I have heard - mainly through lack of opportunity being I’m here in Tassie - I don’t know how much better the likes of a Vitus / Gryphon / etc amp would be over these monos, also whether a Vega DAC to match the Auralic gear I have or to go another direction and consider Tambaqui etc…

But it sounds great now. Inexperienced ears means not much idea what could be better without biting a bullet and seeing how it goes.
 

4 hours ago, Hydrology said:

I'm assuming you bought the speakers from the importer (Grooveworks)?

No, they are Tidal Conreiva Diacera SE that I bought here on the forum.

I have been in touch with Peter. Sure would be nice to have Camira / Presencio but even 2nd hand pricing is up there, better wait a few years and reassess.

 

[MattyW]

Be careful….. Quite a few times the next step was a complete change of direction and eventually the entire system. It always ended up ahead but geez the expense!

 

If you can manage it just enjoy the music? I believe I’m there now though I’ve also said that many times by before.

[Sounding]

On 27/5/2023 at 11:26 PM, MattyW said:

Be careful….. Quite a few times the next step was a complete change of direction and eventually the entire system.

I am still curious as to what a high end DAC would do for me.

What I have is great and I certainly do enjoy it. But I’d like to find out how good it can get.

I don’t know how good a Vega G2.1 DAC is compared to other DACs at the pointy price end.

One thing that bothers me a bit is you spend some $30K retail on Aries / Sirius / Vega and still need $15K for a clock to get the entire package.

I have trouble in my head justifying around $15K for a Leo the same way I have trouble justifying perhaps $1500 or more on a cable - simply because I don’t know.

I am interested in hiring an end-game DAC for a week or 2 so I can compare with what I have now. Seems hiring such things is not easy.

One day I will get to Melbourne and/or Sydney and see what happens.

[MattyW]

I’m afraid I can’t live without my AudioGD R7HE Mk2, though I find many of the tracks like DDC, OCXO clock, network filtering, switches etc and up taking things even further than the C DAC alone can do.

[Keith_W]

If you are thinking of spending that much on a DAC, you should surely go to Melbourne and arrange a few appointments. 

[tripitaka]

Just a question @Sounding

How coherent is the integration of your subs with your speakers?

 

I know you said you did some sweeps, but you didn't specifically mention bass integration.

 

Anyway, reason for my Q is that integrating my subs to the mains was a bigger step forward than just about any of my equipment purchases (of which there have been many).  Whenever I find the energy, my next plan is to further refine my DSP curves, based on exact phase matching at the speaker LF roll-off.

 

I'm no bass nut, quite the opposite really, but getting LF coherence is more important than most people think and it costs nothing - whereas throwing money at equipment will generally bring you no closer to LF coherence.

 

FWIW, while I was doing the DSP, I also implemented mid & treble Xover phase linearization and I think that helped too.

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by tripitaka

[joz]

3 hours ago, tripitaka said:

Just a question @Sounding

How coherent is the integration of your subs with your speakers?

 

I know you said you did some sweeps, but you didn't specifically mention bass integration.

 

Anyway, reason for my Q is that integrating my subs to the mains was a bigger step forward than just about any of my equipment purchases (of which there have been many).  Whenever I find the energy, my next plan is to further refine my DSP curves, based on exact phase matching at the speaker LF roll-off.

 

I'm no bass nut, quite the opposite really, but getting LF coherence is more important than most people think and it costs nothing - whereas throwing money at equipment will generally bring you no closer to LF coherence.

 

FWIW, while I was doing the DSP, I also implemented mid & treble Xover phase linearization and I think that helped too.

 

Absolutely, get the bass right and everything/ most things falls into place.

 
But if you don’t know what your chasing how do you know when you get it?

If you think something will help your quest , try it somehow before you commit. It seems money is burning a hole in your pocket but still no reason to buy things for a post sideways or worse backwards step.

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by joz

[MattyW]

Funny though sometimes it’s the tweaks that get you across the line. The difference between not good enough, satisfactory and jaw dropping lay stunning results seem to me to be separated by a hairs width. Everything balanced on a razors edge, or the end of a needle of you will. These fine differences are where you make the difference with tweaks in a system. I guess the question is how close are you to audio nirvana? Is it the tweaks you need to be looking at, or the fundamental components?

For me the tweaks are the the things get the system to a truly lifelike level, the conversely it isn’t possible unless balance is achieved with the base components.

[Sounding]

6 hours ago, tripitaka said:

How coherent is the integration of your subs with your speakers?

To be honest, I don’t know. For music I only use the one sub, the REL S/510. Its level is low, like 5 clicks max. Its crossover is also low - at or near minimum.

It’s connected low level by the RCA outputs from the preamp (monoblocks using the XLR outputs).

I have rearranged positions of things here and haven’t pulled out the microphone and laptop since I did that, it’s something I need to revisit.

I have an app on my phone where I can power on and off the sub, I conclude it’s not really needed for a lot of content but does add something.

 

3 hours ago, joz said:

But if you don’t know what your chasing how do you know when you get it?

Exactly my problem. If I did nothing and settled for this, would I be happy? Absolutely! But back when I really did know no better, I was happy for a decade using B&W CM9 speakers powered by a Musical Fidelity M6i amp, streaming Spotify and MP3 from a computer.
I have learnt a lot in 15 months. Spent a lot too. That opened my mind to improvement possibilities.

If I could find a local paid expert to evaluate what I have and offer recommendations, I think that would be beneficial (near Devonport, Tasmania).

 

2 hours ago, MattyW said:

I guess the question is how close are you to audio nirvana?

Somewhat answered in the above replies. I don’t really know.

I could go to the mainland and listen to a bunch of high end gear, but will it sound the same here, will I remember what it sounds like, will I remember what my current system sounds like, and will I be able to determine the listening difference between better or different.

I think for now I go back on the fence, twiddle with things here (placement, acoustics, cables, REW for sub), and just enjoy.

[MattyW]

It sounds like you've solved your problem.... No changes required which is a positive outcome in terms of the hip pocket 

[MattyW]

On 17/04/2023 at 8:12 PM, Sounding said:

@tripitaka I hadn’t discovered that thread, I will dig it up when next opening something deserving. 
This one was good, a ‘98.

Two of them left.

 

 

Fantastic pic that.... Love the pup in the background by the veggie garden (at least I think its a veggie garden), someone seated opposite. So many little details.

[Sounding]

18 minutes ago, MattyW said:

It sounds like you've solved your problem.... No changes required which is a positive outcome in terms of the hip pocket 

For now - are we really ever done? I’m still very curious as to what a great DAC would do for me. If I could hire the likes of a Tambaqui for a week or 2, that would be ideal, I would then at least know.

[Snoopy8]

You seem to be still looking for the silver bullet and getting a great DAC is not the answer.  It is how any decent DAC works with the streamer, what cables you use and how it integrates with the rest of the setup which matter.

[Satanica]

Most of what holds back systems are acoustical problems.

And one can't just spend their way out on toys that don't address acoustical problems.

[MattyW]

1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

You seem to be still looking for the silver bullet and getting a great DAC is not the answer.  It is how any decent DAC works with the streamer, what cables you use and how it integrates with the rest of the setup which matter.

 

You've said what I was trying to say with a more straight forward and economical choice of words. I salute you 

[tripitaka]

5 hours ago, Sounding said:

To be honest, I don’t know. For music I only use the one sub, the REL S/510. Its level is low, like 5 clicks max. Its crossover is also low - at or near minimum.

It’s connected low level by the RCA outputs from the preamp (monoblocks using the XLR outputs).

I have rearranged positions of things here and haven’t pulled out the microphone and laptop since I did that, it’s something I need to revisit.

I have an app on my phone where I can power on and off the sub, I conclude it’s not really needed for a lot of content but does add something.

 

Well my suggestion in answer to your opening post would be to:

 

1. sort out your bass which (with respect) you haven't done, based on the response above. 

2. Tackle room effects (whether digitally or by treatment).

 

These are (obviously) much harder and more boring than buying new gear - yet not doing these will reduce the benefit of any new gear you do buy.

 

 

[maximus]

@SoundingIt's obvious you're not enjoying your system to your expectations. Unfortunately the Tidals are on a different playing field than your electronics, they're truly hi end. Nothing worse than spending wads of money on a system you're not 100% with.

I'd start with swapping out the Prima Luna dac for something from Lumin, P1 or X1, keeping it simple, or if tubes are your preference, you could look into dacs from Aqua or Lampizator.

All these streamers and dacs sound remarkable, cost wise the Lumins would help out in the hip pocket. It's just a suggestion.

I'd contact Geoff at Hey Now, he's got the P1/X1 as well as Aqua dacs amongst others ready to audition. The big issue is, he doesn't have speakers as good as the Tidals to compare.

I've been in similar situations where swapping out the source reaped the biggest rewards. You have to start somewhere, but don't spend a 'red' cent until absolutely sure.

 

cheers,

Frank. 

[BugPowderDust]

On 1/6/2023 at 3:35 PM, tripitaka said:

 

Well my suggestion in answer to your opening post would be to:

1. sort out your bass which (with respect) you haven't done, based on the response above. 

2. Tackle room effects (whether digitally or by treatment).

 

These are (obviously) much harder and more boring than buying new gear - yet not doing these will reduce the benefit of any new gear you do buy.

Couldn't agree more.

 

I'd get someone like Cristian Corsini on the phone and ask what the go would be with respect to getting him to take a look at your room and your speaker positioning. He can measure and help you dial it all in on the spot and he can do a 3D model of your room and provide guidance on optimal room treatment options etc.

 

What you spend on his time you will save on inadvertently flipping gear, buying the wrong room treatments and reaching in the dark for audio nirvana.